. Also He said it would likely cost around 35 million bucks (which is pretty cheap for a movie). The fact is, Trek and its current setting of the 2370s and the creative staff behind it have long since gotten stale. It no longer reflects the world it is made in. DS9 may have been a more realistic view of people's interactions but as gritty, hard-edged TV it falls far short of Homicide or even NYPD Blue. Voyager is a step backwards, hastily abandoning the element of conflict inherent in the mixed-crews scenario almost fromt he word go.
So, imagine the world in a few more years. B5 is a fading memory, the X-Files are a movie franchise along with maybe Xena/Hercules and Buffy. The rush to bring out any sort of SF show has faded. Then would be a good time to bring out a Star Trek not rooted in the 1980s. The present staff would help start it off, but as with Fontana, Justman et al they would soon fall by the wayside. Trek for a new Millenium.
Can anyone come up with rational arguments why this shouldn't be? And please spare us the "any Trek is good Trek" spiel - it's quite obvious from the continuous Voyager-bashing that no-one really believes this. And more than anything it's time to grow up - it is possible to live a life where you're not getting at least 26 episodes of new Star Trek every year. Far sooner to take a break now and return refreshed than see one more misguided, ill-bred Trek spinoff made by people whose ultimate interest lies in protecting their cosy jobs at Paramount-Viacom.
Maybe JMS could talk someone into doing a cheap "Crusade" movie. Say ten or twenty million dollar budget.
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
[This message has been edited by Kosh (edited July 06, 1999).]
Btw on a Crusade/B5 movie jms stated that it wouldn't happen for lest a couple of years, until the Star Wars stuff was over . Also He said it would likely cost around 35 million bucks (which is pretty cheap for a movie).
HMS White Star
But in all seriousness, I can see what our First One is saying. From an objective point of view, I agree. While I think there is a lot of potential in both the current time period of Trek and in the current production staff, a rest would be still be helpful.
However, I've come to the realization this summer that Star Trek is basically the only thing left that holds my interest on television. Oh, there are plenty of other shows that I'll watch, I suppose, but none that I will set out purposefully to see. Maybe MST3K, but that won't be on next season. So for purely selfish reasons I'd like to see a new incarnation sooner rather than later. But those are hardly good enough reasons to actually do it.
The only "rational" argument I can think of is that just because TOS survived for decades doesn't mean our newer shows will. Not because of any difference in quality, but a difference in the fans. There's just so much else out there. People don't feel the need to become attached to a series. But that's a question for those research types to answer.
------------------
"And give me back my evil heart so I can see you as you are."
--
John Linnell
------------------
"Chocolate is a serious thing!"-Counselor Troi
------------------
"Fear attracts the fearful"
([[[[[[*]}�������������������������
And that's the problem. The interest is there now, and as long as they can exploit it they will. They'll run it into the ground, beyond any hope of recovery, but then that's preferable to them because in 5 years they'll all have moved on and a new Trek series won't benefit them personally - look at how all the old hands (Roddenberry, Justman, Fontana, the guy who did TOS and early TNG uniforms, even Harve Bennett) were out after doing all the work that led to the interest in new Trek series.
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
1. An audience that can't imagine life without new Trek but suspects - in fact KNOWS - that whatever TPTB come up with will make Voyager look good.
2. An audience that has gotten sick of reruns, remembers those late-nineties shows with fondness, and would like to see some new Trek after a five year absence.
1. Voyager go on to finish its seventh season.
2. Star Trek leaves TV for a while. Meanwhile, a TNG movie, hopefully showing post-Dominion War events.
3. After a few years, Star Trek returns to TV, with the awful "Flight Academy" idea having been banished long ago.
------------------
Darlene: I read a lot of science fiction.
Herbert: Bless you, my child.
Kay: The world needs more people like you.
-Deep Space Nine, "Far Beyond the Stars."
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
"I could never sleep my way to the top, 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up." - TMBG
After that, it's down to movies. It doesn't look like the crew of the Big-E is willing to do one beyond the next movie, so I guess that would be it. I however do not want to see some epic action packed movie, with the Enterprise, Voyager, and Defiant blasting their way from one side of the Federation to the next. I'd like to see a movie where the crew does something that they feel really good about (Saving some small race or something like that, you know, the usual) and the last line of the movie would be Picard saying "Engage." End on a positive note, and leave the fans thinking that the series may be over, but the characters are still out there, boldly going. A DS9 movie is probably not going to happen, and Voyager doesn't look to good either.
As for a new series, a break is definately needed. I remember back during the pre-DS9 days how everyone seemed to like the Next Generation. My grandfather liked it, my six year old cousin liked it. It appealed to everyone. DS9 didn't have that, Voyager certainly doesn't. We need a break, to allow the people to start wondering, and to start talking, and start imagining again. Do you all remember the barrage of toys that the Next Generation spawned, with commercials for them showing lots of fun scenes created with action figures and starship toys? I do! And I never saw one for DS9 or Voyager. And that's the key. The Next Generation had broad appeal, and if Trek is going to survive, the next series needs that, too.
Oh, and that Flight Acadamy idea? I hate it. I wouldn't watch it. It would be an action show, with all of that standard "Coming of Age" shit like dating and loosing virginity. It wouldn't be Trek. I'm afraid however that it may be true. Rick Berman, when asked about the next series, mentioned that he doubted we'd seen the last of all of the DS9 characters, right? Well...(Warning, DS9 spoiler appoaching...)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Perhaps he was refering to Professor O'Brien?
------------------
Josh: I think they're getting to know each other a bit too well, if you catch my drift.
Me: Oh, I agree. I think they're spending too much time together, that is of course, if you catch my drift.
Asher: I think he's *ucking her, and he's cheating on his wife, and he's risking his marriage, and if his wife finds out about it she'll leave him and take their son, and his life will be ruined. If you catch my drift...
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
"I could never sleep my way to the top, 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up." - TMBG
I don't want to get off on a rant here, but Trek is getting old. Not old with age, but old with storylines. It's getting to be where we can go "Wait a minute...haven't we seen this before?" The show isn't exactly the same...but they've got similarities. The stories in Trek used to be interesting, and intellectually stimulating. I understand making a fun episode every once in awhile, to get a laugh not only for the fans, but for cast and crew as well. But it would also be nice if they came up with some shows that after they're over...make you think. Not that when the shows over, you turn the TV off, and say "That was nice." A show that makes you go "Hmmm...I wonder..." That's what Trek is all about. It's not supposed to be "Star Trek: Day's of Our Academy".
Trek has fallen astray of the high ideals set by Gene Roddenberry when he created the series. He portrayed a future where the humanity has made it to the 23rd century. And not only that, humanity had prospered. These days, I'm inclined to agree with McCoy from STIV: "It's a wonder these people ever got out of the 20th century." TNG followed Gene's ideals, of a bright future full of wonder, and amazing things. There were dark hours, but they weren't dark for very long. DS9, was a darker, more mature Trek. Especially in the last few seasons. But it didn't have the appeal TNG or TOS did. Why? Because it was dark, and dealt with things that most people would rather not see. A perfect example is "The Seige of AR-588". I thought it was a brilliant episode, that showed the true horror of war, set in the future. But that doesn't appeal to most of the people who did watch TOS, and TNG.
Then, there's VOY. A show that had great potential, but has never really lived up to it. The tension that should have been there between Starfleet and the Maquis for at least the first few seasons, never really materialized. Writers forgot that these were two opposite sides, and instead had them all jump together on the bandwagon. What's worse, is that they never get together and use their brains to figure things out. They get together, then use the 'mystical plot device' to find the good old 'particle of the week' and save the day/ship/whatever. Plus, they've been stranded out in the Delta/Beta Quadrant for 5 years, and the ship doesn't even have a scratch! The crew is always nicely dressed, well fed, and comfortable. I suppose that they've adopted the style of MST3K, and said: "For those of you who're wondering how they eat and breath, and other science facts,(Lalala!),then repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax". I wish I could, but when you don't even try to explain something that fundamental away, it reduces the quality of the show. Not once has there been reduced power, the crew doesn't get to eat, no showers, etc. The Voyager has been destroyed so many times, and yet each time it turns out to be alternate universe/temporal distortion/or some other nonsense. Get real. Fans aren't stupid. They want to see something other that the holodeck screwing up every 5th episode, and seeing a 'fake' Voyager getting destroyed once or twice a season. It gets old, really fast.
The quality of Trek has degraded over the past few years. Especially on VOY, which has been plagued with poor writing, and storylines so weak, my 12 year old sister could come up with something better. DS9 had a good writing staff, and came up with some excellent shows, that just didn't have the broad appeal that TNG and TOS have. Trek needs a break, and we need a break from it. Take a few years, and come up with something new and exciting. Something that challenges the mind, and the limits of society. Break some taboos, and boldy go again! Make it a show that Gene Roddenberry would be proud of. Not something that will only make money. Trek isn't about money, it's about people. It's time that Paramount realized that. Of course, that's only my opinion, I may be wrong.
------------------
"I see you have the ring. And that your Schwartz is as big as mine!
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
"Chocolate is a serious thing!"-Counselor Troi
That, of course, leads weight to the idea of a break. You have to let Trek become a bit of an underdog again, so people will root for it. It's not exactly fair, but it is often true.
------------------
"And give me back my evil heart so I can see you as you are."
--
John Linnell
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
There is also an interesting bit about Battlestar Galactica at this site.
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
"But, it was so artistically done."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
"Keep honking: I'm reloading."
-bumber sticker on a friend's truck
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
RB: "'Get a life' is a phrase heard a lot, though I have never known exactly what kind was implied. Seems a lot of shallowness and greed is the rule."
CS: "I guess that it means the kind of life led by the characters of 'Dawson's Creek' or 'The Simpsons'."
1. I think there should be a large break before any new Trek TV series, the TV series Idea - for the moment had tarnished. I think Voyager had been getting better - I think Videos 5.5, 5.6 and 5.7 have been better than DS9's 7.5, 7.6 and 7.7 - and from me that is saying a LOT - I am a HUGE DS9 fan - It was my first trek, i.e. it was Emissary that pulled me into all things trek seriously.
2. I think Rick Berman is quite batty, simply because over the years he says - I don't CARE what the fans want - WE watch the show Rick - we LIVE the show - a lot of us aren't watching Trek anymore - think about it.
------------------
"Ooh, FASA." - The Shadow, aka Frank G - June 1999
Flight Academy is a rumour, as far as I'm concerned. It can't fly.
Oh, and since Braga was willing to turn down the ninth film in order to care for Voyager 100%, is it likely he'd spend three hours a day planning a new series with Berman? I don't know, to be honest...
A three-year break sounds good to me.
Voyager deserves as many seasons as DS9. It's a different style, but as good in its own way.
------------------
Doctor: "Run along. I'll reattach any severed limbs. Just don't misplace them." (Voyager: "The Killing Game")
[This message has been edited by Elim Garak (edited July 11, 1999).]
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
RB: "'Get a life' is a phrase heard a lot, though I have never known exactly what kind was implied. Seems a lot of shallowness and greed is the rule."
CS: "I guess that it means the kind of life led by the characters of 'Dawson's Creek' or 'The Simpsons'."
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
RB: "'Get a life' is a phrase heard a lot, though I have never known exactly what kind was implied. Seems a lot of shallowness and greed is the rule."
CS: "I guess that it means the kind of life led by the characters of 'Dawson's Creek' or 'The Simpsons'."
------------------
Doctor: "Run along. I'll reattach any severed limbs. Just don't misplace them." (Voyager: "The Killing Game")
------------------
WHO ARE YOU
They need to take a break, develop new stories and then come back with a brand new kick ass series about three or four years after Voyager ends. I have said this before, but I think the new series should be set in the future - this will give the writers scope to do what they want.
------------------
Do business with us, or we'll ruin you.
***** Are you all out of your Vulcan minds? *****
I wonder if one can seriously call oneself a sci-fi fan, Trek fan, Trekkie, Trekker or whatever, but demand A BREAK FROM TREK. In my opinion, if you think you love something but it's dispensable you don't really love it. What about your girl/boy friends?
If you are so critical about the show that you prefer to not see it for a while, please consider if you are still a Trek fan. I can understand that fans are trying to care about the business of TPTB (after all I do as well), but isn't it paradox to tell them "please stop making my favorite show"? I admit I'm a Trek addict, and I couldn't stand three years without Trek on TV. What is this Trek renunciation supposed to mean anyway - besides the reasonable arguments - a personal sacrifice, a sign you're not addicted but live in the real world?
And now back to reasonable arguments: Is Trek supposed to become better (still better?) after the break? If Trek is stopped after VOY season 7 or even 6, there will be no continuity. Who knows if the new production team will make a good show in 3 or even five years? Rick Berman is not so bad a producer as some might think, but I'm not sure if he will be back. The same applies to most of the other people. Who will care about consistency? When TNG started, Roddenberry was still around, and he did a good job.
Starting a new show is always a whole lot of work for numerous people, and it's even harder if it called Star Trek and expectations are high and it's still harder if there's no direct predecessor. Will it be Trek at all or only be called Star Trek?
Will there be a new show at all? TPTB could come to the conclusion that the whole business works without any new investments. Why spend millions of dollars for a new show, if the mercahndising still runs perfectly (George Lucas was aware of that, don't tell Paramount)?
I don't want to think of the worst case - oblivion. There will probably be several new appealing sci-fi shows in the meantime, and Star Trek will not exactly be forgotten, but regarded as "the good old thing our parents always watched". It was a great and unexpected success that TNG did not only manage to pick up, but also revive the idea of Star Trek. I wouldn't risk to skip one generation (of fans) again. The young people (to which most of you obviously belong, while I'm quite a bit older) are much more ambitious, fastidious and daring than my generation, and they change their minds continually. Don't show them any Star Trek, they won't miss it. Show them Star Trek, they will like it or not. As long as there are people interested in it, Star Trek will continue, and I hope it will be forever.
Star Trek: Live long and prosper!
------------------
"Now if you'll excuse me Captain, I have an appointment with eternity, and I don't want to be late." (Soran, ST:G)
Ex Astris Scientia
------------------
WHO ARE YOU?
Yes, we're Star Trek fans - but we're DISCERNING Star Trek fans. We know when an episode or movie is crap, and we've been seeing more of such as time goes on. If you're so blind to quality that you have no judgement at all about what you see, then what are you doing here? This isn't a Forum for saying "gosh, wasn't that episode brilliant?" the day after you saw "Meridian" or "Threshold" or "Shades of Grey" or "Spock's Brain."
What we're talking about is a very noticeable creative buirnout on the part of the Trek producers. That is why we want them to stop - so that in a few years time someone new will take up the mantle of Trek again. But as long as the franchise remains in the hands of Berman, Piller, Braga, Taylor et al, the downward slide will continue. And the politics of Hollywood preclude any purges or housecleaning that will lead to a complete, instant new start.
All the above won't be the case if Star Trek is stopped now.
As for the quality, I don't notice it's getting worse. Any Trek season so far has had two or three crap episodes.
------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
------------------
WHO ARE YOU?
TOS actually was pretty cheezy, often times sexist. But a few of the shows were really good because a few of the writers were very good, and were reflecting on the ideas and thought of the '60s.
TNG really was pretty good. It was good because the writers were good. TNG barellly even scratched the surface with their characters, yet they were able to create fresh and new and quality stories every week. TNG was actually the most commercially popular trek series.
DS9 did get off to a slow start, u have to admit. But with the coming of the dominion, the show developed its conflict and character driven story lines. Complex story arcs were formed throughout the series. This led to a spectacular 6th and 7th seasons of what is regarded as perhaps the best trek. But we have to notice that DS9 was good because it had good writers, and ira behr has its brilliant producer.
Then came Voyager. Voyager, to put it nicely, did not compare with TNG or DS9. Although Voyager's stories could often times be exciting and sometimes intereting, I often found them shallow. This is because Voyager's writers aren't all the best, and Voyager's producer insits on making each show stand alone.
The reason TNG and DS9 were good was because they had good writers. Voyager might not be as good because its writers are not always as good, and its producer has a different vision for the series.
I personnaly believe that the next seres could do fine if:
1) The characters have potantial to grow and interact.
2) Good writers are brought in to work on the show.
3)An experienced trek producer is chosen who can perhaps find the balance between characters and plot. What this balance should be depends on your own views. I personally think an intermdeiate point between DS9 and TNG would be good. Some of u might want a series similar to DS9, while tohers might want one closer to TNG.
------------------
"Can I have a hug?"
-Dr. Evil
------------------
Nurse: Can I help you?
Stan: We're here to commit our friend, Kyle.
Nurse: Reason?
Kyle: I'm a clinically depressed fecalpheliac on Prozac.
Nurse: JACKET!!
------------------
WHO ARE YOU?
Voyager deserves 7 seasons. After that a break of a year or so may allow creative batteries to recharge, and hopefully a quality team to assemble to run any new show.
Trek has indeed wandered from its Roddenberry roots a bit too much in DS9. The future will only achieve TNG's appeal again if it is an attractive place to be. Everyone wanted to be on the Enterprise. Nobody who valued their bodily limbs would want a posting anywhere near DS9. Voyager is homely, but the isolation is an unsettling influence. Perhaps a new starship show with a return to the heroes exploring outward and meeting adventures ahead of them, rather than where all the drama arises from threats from neighbours or corruption at home. (All very 1990s as opposed to 2370s!)
As for the idea of a "Flight Academy", replete with lantern-jawed hunks for leads and some "teen appeal" in the style of Buffy? Well, I have cornered this idea in a darkened alley and invite you all to join me in kicking it to death most ruthlessly. >
A break of a year then. Then Trek 10 in the cinemas, with a nice TNG resolution. No sudden death or premature end to the ensemble. (Blow up the E-E, Mr Berman, and I shall blow up Paramount studios...!) 
One last point before my wormhole collapses and cuts off the line:
I may last a year without it, but my system requires intravenous injection of new Trek to sustain my bodily functions. So if you take too long a break, you will in effect be murdering me to death. Please bear this in mind.
Wormhole closes
------------------
Taking foxiness to the rim of the final frontier....
I shall return.
And this would be bad because. . ? 8P
------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
------------------
WHO ARE YOU?