First, some facts. 128 new pages according to the cover, and it shows. The encyclopedia is quickly becoming rather monsterous in size. If this goes on, I wouldn't be surprised to see it split into two volumes. Entries that have been updated are marked by an asterisk, which is nice. DS9 is fully accounted for, up to and including the series finale. "Equinox" does not appear to be included, however. (Though I checked this by looking up "Nova class", so it is possible that some information might have made it.)

And now...well, let's start with the disappointments, as those stand out more. No list of new starships. (Though they are represented in entries. It also might be possible that the list in the old section might have been updated, I didn't think to check it until later.) No new ships added to the size comparison chart. And the Dominion cruiser is still upside down! No nice side diagram of Breen ships, just a smallish screenshot. The Centaur is represented by the poorly constructed DS9 tech. manual picture.

However, it wouldn't be fair to judge the book solely by these things. There is quite a bit to recommend it. Nice diagrams of Son'a and 8472 vessels, as well as the new Starfleet craft from "Insurrection". And of course, the real meat and potatoes of the thing, the entries. I only had time to skim, of course, but it looks pretty comprehensive.

Personally, I plan to pick it up. Being a softcover, it's cheaper than what I bought my second edition hardcover for. Besides, all that new information is hard to pass up for the compulsively obsessive, such as myself.

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"And much of Madness, and more of Sin, and Horror the soul of the plot."
--
The Conqueror Worm, by Edgar Allan Poe
 

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
 

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"The next time the workplace seems especially hectic, remind yourself it could be worse: you could have two-dozen sharp-toothed creatures chewing on your nipples." - James Lileks

 

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"You don't need a gun."
"That depends on your definition of 'save sex'."

from: 'Goldeneye'

 

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"Invaders from the fifth dimension!" - or: the canon proof that subspace is the same as hyperspace
Ex Astris Scientia

 

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Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
 

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

Regarding the Centaur class: No. It's a "Federation starship". Which is true, if obvious. On the other hand, there isn't any mention of the kitbash hypothesis either.

Regarding the scout: I couldn't say. I did skim past it, but just to look at the picture.

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"And much of Madness, and more of Sin, and Horror the soul of the plot."
--
The Conqueror Worm, by Edgar Allan Poe
 

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"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life"

-Backstreet Boys
 

Andrew

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"All is full of love, all around you" - Bj�rk

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

Source for number of pages is from Amazon.com.

If the information from Amazon.com is correct, there has been addtions made to the hardcover version which resulted in 64 more pages.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

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"I've colorized the moon."
-Ted Turner, The Family Guy
 

Here's a list of some of the new ships though.

�USS Billings, no registry or class given.
�USS Centaur, no registry or class given.
�USS Cort�z, I don't know if anyone knows the class for this ship, but the encyclopedia 3 (enc3) doesn't mention one.
�The Dauntless has entry has a nice msd showing it has 7 decks.
�The Delta Flyer section has a top and side digrams and a 3/4 view of the cockpit.
�USS Destiny, no registry or class given.
�The USS Farragut seen in "Chrysalis" is Excelsior-class. However, not established, the enc3 assumes, like many, that it is Excelsior-class since it was seen in the episode.
�USS Fredrickson NCC-42111 Excelsior-class
�USS Gettysburg, no registry or class given.
�The holoship is still simply referred to as holoship.
�The USS Intrepid mentioned from "In The Flesh" doesn't have a registry in the entry.
�USS Magellan, no registry or class given.
�USS Majestic, Miranda-class, no registry given, although on my personal list I have it as NCC-38160.
�USS Musashi, no registry or class given.
�USS Nautilus NCC-31910 Miranda-class, already known of course.
�USS Olympia, no registry or class given.
�There's a msd of the Prometheus showing is can land on planets. The shot of it's dedication plaque has an error though saying... Starfleet Registry NX-74913.
�USS Raven NAR-32450, no class given.
�USS Republic, no registry or class, its entry suggests it's the same Constitution-class ship that Kirk served on as a cadet.
�USS Saratoga, no registry or class given.
�USS Sarek, no registry or class given.
�Starfleet Scout ship, no class given.
�USS Sentinel, no registry or class given.
�USS ShirKahr (one word) NCC-31905 Miranda-class.
�USS Sitak, no registry given, Miranda-class.
�USS T'Kumbra, no registry given, Nebula-class.
�USS Ticonderoga, no registry or class given. I believe however that it is NCC-75227 and is the ship that the scout ship came from.
�USS Valiant NCC-74210 Defiant-class.
�USS Valley Forge NCC-43305 Excelsior-class.

I know some that I listed were already known, I just wanted to point out all the ships anyway.

The S�o Paulo wasn't given an entry, only mentioned in the Defiant's entry.

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."
Federation Starship Datalink - Yet another site based on the popularity of starships.

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited September 25, 1999).]
 

If I had a scanner that worked.

And if I actually owned the book.

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"And much of Madness, and more of Sin, and Horror the soul of the plot."
--
The Conqueror Worm, by Edgar Allan Poe
 

Yay! Now we know the name of NCC-42111.

The Prometheus registry thing is interesting.

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Frank's Home Page
"Yes, I routinely run any car with Canadian plates off the road. It makes it easier to yank them out, blind them, and put them to work in my underground salt mine." - Simon Sizer
 

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."
Federation Starship Datalink - Yet another site based on the popularity of starships.
 

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Frank's Home Page
"Yes, I routinely run any car with Canadian plates off the road. It makes it easier to yank them out, blind them, and put them to work in my underground salt mine." - Simon Sizer
 

This number is more suitable for the Prometheus design!

BTW: What made you think that the Ticonderoga is the Insurrection scout??

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"You don't need a gun."
"That depends on your definition of 'save sex'."

from: 'Goldeneye'

By the way, how does my schematic compare to the official Delta Flyer Schematic?
http://members.xoom.com/avalonsector/junk/deltaschem.jpg
Cut and paste in a new window.

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A-"Dippidy Doo." Q-"What forms on your dippity early in the morning?"--Johnny Carson

I believe that the USS Ticonderoga was the ship that Admiral Dougherty and the Starfleet crew came from, and that the scout ship was an auxiliary craft for the Ticonderoga. Here's the Ticonderoga's entry:

"Ticonderoga, U.S.S. Federation starship. The Ticonderoga reported to the Ba'ku homeworld in 2375 to facilitate the planet becoming a Federation protectorate. (Star Trek: Insurrection).
Named to honor the capture of Fort Ticonderoga on May 10, 1775, by Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys."

Your Delta Flyer diagram and the one in the Enc3 are very similar.

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."
Federation Starship Datalink - Yet another site based on the popularity of starships.

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited September 25, 1999).]
 

And I agree based on the information provided that the USS Ticonderaga is the mother ship of the scout. This is the fourth or fifth ship that is named after a Revolutionary War battle-USS Concorde, USS Lexington, USS Saratoga, USS Ticonderaga, and USS Yorktown.

The ships that are missing from the list are the
USS Curry (?)
USS Manson
USS Yorktown [what is the registry of this ship?]

I accept the registry of the USS Prometheus as NX-74913. This makes logical sense.

I will not be buying either the August or October version of the encyclopedia. I personnally feel that Paramount is buttf***ing the loyal fans of Star Trek with substandard products.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited September 25, 1999).]
 

After all, some ship had to turn up to bring another warpcore. . . 8)

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"Have you seen blood in the moonlight, Will? It appears quite black."

- Dr. Hannibal Lecktor (Brian Cox), Manhunter (Michael Mann, 1986)
 

There are a total of 745 pages.

No mention of the USS Curry or USS Shelley.
No mention of the USS Manson.
And guess what, no mention of the USS Yorktown in the supplement.

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."
Federation Starship Datalink - Yet another site based on the popularity of starships.
 

Pardon my language in the last posting. I
don't like seeing people or myself being
manipulated or used in such an obvious
fashion. Instead of improving the older
encyclopedia, the older encyclopedia is given
an appendix with very brief and incomplete
entries. This is to save money-don't have to
repress the orignal pages with corrections
and new entries. Does this savings translate
to the buyer? NO. The buyer is paying the
higher price for the hardcover and the
softcover. [First One, he probably thinks I
am in a stint. Yes, I am. I don't like seeing people being burned. This was one of my
original complaints with the handling of the
site in early summer. Manipulation is one of
my biggest turn-offs. Treat me honestly or
screw off. However, after visiting the other
sites, I feel at home here and I accept the
conditions of the site. And I will do whatever is needed to keep the site running. The water is under the bridge] I voice my disapproval by not
buying the encyclopedia or other related Stsr Trek Merchandise. This is my choice. And i
accept the choice of others.

Now that the most vocal and most negative
voice on this matter has spoken, let's
discuss the positives of the encyclopedia.
For those who have the encyclopedia, what are the items you like most about the book?

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

Well what I like about the Enc3, well...uh...

The only thing new out it is the supplement in the back. I already wrote to Mike Okuda asking why the supplement couldn't of simply been a separate book that way I didn't have to spend $60 for an encyclopedia I already had just for the extra 128 pages. I also think it's pretty lame to have the new stuff in the back. So you'll have to look up something in two places instead of having all the information in one entry.

BTW, thanks to whoever cleared up my typo posts.

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."
Federation Starship Datalink - Yet another site based on the popularity of starships.

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited September 25, 1999).]
 

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

But you're right. This latest version does the others no credit at all. To repeat some of the most blinding mistakes of the 2nd edition. . . and lump in a lot of incomplete stuff in a haphazard fashion, it's not on.

I mean, how may of us would have helped out getting these parts sorted out, for free? Were they concentrating on all the non-tech stuff?

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"Have you seen blood in the moonlight, Will? It appears quite black."

- Dr. Hannibal Lecktor (Brian Cox), Manhunter (Michael Mann, 1986)
 

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

I'm willing to bet that repeat buyers of the encyclopedia are in the minority. Quite simply, this book isn't exactly aimed at us. I have a hard time believing that every Star Trek fan is quite so obsessive as those you find online. (Myself included, of course.)

Is a lot of this merchandise overpriced crap? Sure enough. But I discovered this nifty little feature. Turns out, I'm the only one who gets to write checks from my bank account. I'm the only person who can spend my money. Isn't that wild?

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"And much of Madness, and more of Sin, and Horror the soul of the plot."
--
The Conqueror Worm, by Edgar Allan Poe
 

Andrew

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"All is full of love, all around you" - Bj�rk

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"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."
Federation Starship Datalink - Yet another site based on the popularity of starships.
 

I read in Star Trek Communicator that this may be the last version of the encyclopedia. The Okudas are becoming tired of doing the book. This is best.

My approach to an encyclopedia
*have commitees to do planets and other stellar bodies, characters, ships and stations, technology, and others
*each commitee would research and catalogue the available data from scipts, okudagrams, and notes from the production departments
*after this researching and cataloging, each commitee would write entries [this would make the encyclopedia complete. The claim on Amazon.com is that the encyclopedia is complete. Comments on this thread show this statement to be stretching.] Inconsistencies would be covered in appendixs to the appropriate material.
*every three years, an update would be published

Features would include the original source material-the okudagrams, lines from the scripts, models, etc. and would feature art work depicting events, people, ships, planets, etc. The original source material would provide confirmation and depth to the entries. And arguments for the inconsistencies would be aided by the original source material.

One last note, the word conjecture would be removed from the entries. "Conjecture" suggests that the entries lack credibilty. How can an entry be considered accurate if the author says the information is a guess?

The final product may be many tomes in length. However, I think the fans will buy the series. And Paramount would show that it cared about the fans, instead of wanting to rob them of their money.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

Volume 1 to 3 Scripts for the original
Volume 4 to 11 Scripts for the next generation
Volume 12 to 19 Scipts for deep space nine
Volume 20 to 26 Scripts for Voyager
Above volumes are cross-indexed with the following volumes
Volume 27 Characters
Volume 28 Planets and Other Galactic Places
Volume 29 Ships
Volume 30 Technology
Volume 31 Stardates

Later volumes would be added as supplements

Could be computer or non-computer. Probably cheaper as computer.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

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A-"Dippidy Doo." Q-"What forms on your dippity early in the morning?"--Johnny Carson

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

This bears a question

"do we have (internet) any bering on the book"

knowing that the version was put together hastily under a short time frame, that they would take any information they can get and were not able to "fill in" the other info

why don't we combine a list where the majority of us agree upon and send it to Okuda?

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

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I do indeed and shall continue
Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond
--
Soul Coughing
 

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Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx

It's an interesting point whether the online discussions here and elsewhere have any influence on Okuda's programme of "canonisation" (ho-ho) of facts.
I would say that if we, as a group were to extensively debate something, and then e-mail him with our collective opinions (kind of like a summary of the points raised), it WOULD have some influence. If nothing else being another little whispering voice in his ear.

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"FOOLS! Will I have to kill them ALL?!?!"

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"All is full of love, all around you" - Bj�rk

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"Have you seen blood in the moonlight, Will? It appears quite black."

- Dr. Hannibal Lecktor (Brian Cox), Manhunter (Michael Mann, 1986)

Starfleet Weapons & Tactics
 

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")