The Prometheus dedication plaque has a very interesting piece of information, besides the "NX-74913": "Beta Antares Ship Yards - Antares Sector" This means that there is at least another star or planet called Antares which is not in the Bajor sector. The latter assumption would have moved Bajor into the Beta Quadrant since the real star Antares is located there. The question is what "Beta Antares" is supposed to mean. Could it be a planet numbering, or is it just a means to distinguish this fleet yards from "Antares Fleet Yards - Bajor Sector"? Anyway, our maps may show Bajor in the Alpha Quadrant where it belongs
My question is Where did you get "Antares Shipyards - Bajor Sector" from in the first place? Only asking, mind. The answer to your question may hang on that.
I've no interest in Stellar Cartography. Sorry. I've no idea, Bernd. Sorry.
Will I ever stop saying sorry? No. Sorry.
------------------ "Fire, Fire!" said Mrs O'Dwyer. "Where, where?" said Mrs O'Hare. "Down in the town." said Mrs Brown. "Lord bless us and save us" said old Mrs Davis. "I never knew a herring was a fish."
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Sorry, I forgot to mention that "Antares Ship Yards - Bajor Sector" is from the Defiant dedication plaque.
I haven't seen the plaques but if it is "Antares Ship Yards - Bajor Sector", Antares could stand for a company name, and proves my point that the Federation contracts out to private companies in building some of thier starship.
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
I agree with Mr. Brown. The Antares Shipyards is just a (company) name like Utopia Planitia. Beta Antares is a real star (look for the tread about real stars elsewhere on this forum). They probably used that name to identify the shipyard.
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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
In actual astronomic nomenclature, "Beta Antares" doesn't make any sense. Greek letters always come before names of constellations (not after, as in "Ceti Alpha") and are used to indicate the apparent magnitude of a star within a constellation. Within this system, Antares can also be called Alpha Scorpii, since it is the brightest star in the constellation Scorpius. As far as I know, Greek letters are not used with the names of individual stars (except in Star Trek). Roman numerals usually are used to designate planets.
But, of course, you all remember that Beta Antares IV is where fizzbin comes from.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
In other words, there's a Beta Antares ship-yards in Beta-Antares sector, as well as a Beta Antares shipyards in a different sector? And perhaps even a number of shipyards owned by Utopia Planitia?
(The Ent-B was also commissioned at Antares Ship Yards in the TNG tech manual, don't remember what the actual plaque says.)
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 29, 1999).]
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I think the simplest explanation is that Starfleet Yards are named after locations, such as Utopia Planitia and San Francisco. "Beta Antares" is simply an in-joke referring to "A Piece of the Action."
While I also think it's likely that Starfleet ships, like most current ships, are built by private companies, is there anything in canon to support this?
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I don't know about building starships, but we do know that provate companies still exist, such as the Dytallix Mining Corporation which has a base in the Mira system (TNG: "Conspiracy").
------------------ "I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music." -Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
No Boris, there are two shipyards, one called 'Antares' and one called 'Beta Antares'. So there is in fact no problem.
------------------ Presenting the NX-59650. It can slice! It can dice! It can seperate into THREE parts!! Now available with THREE FULL warpcores! But wait! Buy now, and get a free number upgrade to NX-74913!
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Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
The dedication plaque says nothing about where it was built, which is strange. It just says that it was commissioned at STARDATE 9715.5. And it mentions UESPA in the plaque, another strange oddity. The only reference on Antares Shipyards come from the ST: TNG Tech Manual. Can anyone scan the dedication plaque for the Prometheus for comparison?
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Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Oh no! Not "You-spa"!
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Regarding private companies, I don't know about the whole ships, but some of the plaques mention Yoyodine Propulsion, likely refering to the builders of the engine or nacelles. Whether they or independant contractors or not, I bet they're all based on Federation planets.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Here is a little theory, maybe it is Antares Shipyards - Bajor Sector... meaning it was built - refitted in both places... Antares Shipyards (after the Borg problem) and then shipped by Sisko to the Bajor Sector for O'Brien to spruce her up...
------------------ "Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Is there anything in the show that suggests the Defiant was built at Utopia Planitia? I remember this being brought up by someone somewhere. Could the project have been initiated at UP, then completed at Antares, and then O'brien did the bells-and-whistles.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
It was mentioned in a DS9 episode that Ben was working on the Defiant Class Project during his three year stay at Utopia Planitia. It's also mentioned in the Encyclopedia II.
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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Perhaps Sisko was designing the Defiant from behind a desk on Mars, sending specs and blueprints to engineers working on the real ship on Antares or "Bajor Sector"?
Or the ship could have been later deployed to Antares for testing its supersecret weapons and systems away from the prying eyes of the resident Romulan spies at Utopia Planitia.
Then again, the DS9 TM stardate for commissioning seems to predate the Dominion crisis, yet postdate the Borg one. Did Starfleet intend to use the ship for Gamma quadrant recce even before Sisko asked for it? This could be why the finishing work was done in "Bajor Sector". In other words, a lucky coincidence. Or then Starfleet Intelligence knew more about the Dominion than we are led to believe...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
See, I think its mentioning of Bajor Sector means that what Sisko bought in The Search 1 was an unfinished ship - with some major defects... O'Brien and the DS9 engineering crew - basically gave the ship a 'refit'
------------------ "Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I suppose that the "Antares - Bajor Sector" from the Defiant plaque was chosen without any deliberation, since it is obvious that the ship was designed and commissioned (and probably built) in the Sol system. The Prometheus plaque, on the other hand, contains a deliberate in-joke, but there's no reason to deny the existence of Beta Antares. Why should Kirk invent the planet? Would he show so much creativity? ;-)
So we have possibly three Antareses (plural?):
1. The real star Antares: some 400-500 ly from Earth, possibly too far from Earth and too far in the Beta Quadrant, almost definitely not close to Bajor.
2. The Beta Antares ship yards in the Antares sector, possibly identical to 1., maybe there is a second star Beta Antares in this sector, while the main star Antares doesn't have inhabitable planets. This does not comply with the present day astronomical numbering schemes, but once a sector is given a name the stars might be numbered in a similar manner as the Bayer (Greek) latters for the stars visible from Earth. We have to keep in mind that the majority of stars even doesn't have a Bayer letter, but only a number in a star catalogue. Once a star becomes important (and planets are inhabited), they are likely to be given a real name, Beta Antares, for instance.
3. The Antares ship yards in the Bajor sector. Maybe it's really a company name, although this was not the original intention (if there was any). However, why does the Defiant plaque show this name, and why wasn't the fleet yards ever mentioned in DS9, although it's only a few ly away?
------------------ "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness" Ex Astris Scientia
Posted by jh on :
Can someone explain to me why everyone believes that SF employs private contractors when everything we've ever seen of Starships in construction or refit shows nothing but SF personnel working on and designing them? (ST:TMP - refit of original Ent., "Family" and "All Good Things..." - Ent-D in orbit at McKinley station. "Relativity" - Voyager in Space Dock; the only exception that I can think of is Leah Brohms in "Booby Trap" but even that appears to be a SF facility with her serving as desing consultant).
Just curious.
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
Still none of you can disprove that SF employes private contractors. I have seen many US Navy personel on site of non-goverment construction yards. If a organization is not able to have thier people repair thier own vehicles, it would be expensive and slow to keep returning them to the actual builders.
In refit and repair, we've ONLY seen SF personnel on SF facilities. The only yards we ever saw was utopia, which is a SF Facility.
I believe that Private contractors are used for mass produced ships like the Nebula and Miranda, And design help for complicated designs.
As for design, most starships are designed be the ASDB which is an agent of the UFP, but not directly attached to SF. The only starship i belive were designed directly from SF were all runabouts, and the Defiant
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Posted by jh on :
We can't disprove it but we certainly can't prove it either. I'm not saying it's implausible just that we don't have any real evidence to back it up and the complications and extra questions that it raises make a good case for sticking with the simple solution until we have reason to think otherwise.
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Wouldn't it be a real fortunate coincidence to have the Defiant built in the right place (i.e. Bajor Sector) from the very beginning?
It is more likely, in my opinion, that the Borg-phase of the design was conducted elsewhere (Utopia Planitia? Antares Ship Yards, some-other-sector?), and that the ship was subsequently hauled over to Bajor Sector in anticipation of the Dominion threat (Quark was trading with the Karemma early in 2370, and became aware of the Dominion right then - why not Starfleet?).
But as Bernd said, why haven't we ever heard of the yards? Maybe we just missed it, but perhaps this portion of the Antares Ship Yards is merely responsible for ships traversing the Bajor Sector, and not really located in the immediate vicinity. Just a thought.
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
