This is topic What would make a 5th series good? in forum General Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by grb on :
 
Alot of people have said that the next trek might turn out to be mediocreand dull. I think we cann all agree that this could become true. Instead of just making something "totall different," (DS9 was supposed to be totally different, and it was good; Voyager was supposed to be even more different, and well, uh... its Voyager), the rpoducers could try and make something with a number of inteesting story possibilities, as well as ther ability to grow and change.

Let's look at the poast of trek a little for some advice:
TOS-It had some epidsode that were very good, as well as other that were very bad. What really defined TOS and made the overall series good were the episodes concentrating on the issues of the 60's. That is what made TOS sucessful. But you have to admit that many of TOS's stories were often times tachy, and probably wouldn;t pass on today's trek.

TNG-TNG's first few years weren;t necassarily that great, with many episode's that were simply rewritten TOS stories. But within a few years, TNG was pop culture, becoming one of television's most popular shows. What made this possible? Well, TNG was pretty much the only sci-fi show of its time. It also was under the leadership of the very famous Mr. Roddenbery, and also possed an excellent writing staff. The trek universe was also pretty new and open to TNG, allowing the writers to pretty much do wahtever they wanted. We were introduced to a romulan empire, peaceful kilngons, visocu cardassians, and the borg in their most frightening form. But by the 7th season, the writers admit that they started to run out of ideas for stories.

DS9- I have a book call "The Making of Deep Space Nine," which details the development of the show. Originally, it was entitiled Star Trek: Starbase 362, and was to be set in a kind of Federation Hong Kong situated on the surface of a recently freed Bajor. And that was to be the setting, with no wormhole. However, the producers realized that the cost of bulding and outdoor city set were too high, and so changed the setting to a space station. Then they added the wormhole to bring more space travellers to that station. We all know what this lead to: internal Bajoran conflicts, conflicts with the cardassians, conflicts between many interesting characters, and fianlly conflict with the dominion that split the quadrant apart and lead to some of the best stories ever written for trek.

And fianlly, VOY- Orignally, VOY was going to bring two conflicting crews together on a long, lonley journey home that could include ever chainging threats and stories materiazlising with the final release from the well-known alpha quadrant. But that's not how it happened. The series pretty much just didn;t work, just coming out with ever repeating sotry lines. This might not have only been because the writers were bad. There havne;lt been anythiung for Voyagers stories to be about except there little ship and its survival. That's why every story has been about Voyager's survival. Because there's been nothing for Voyager to help in the survival in. At least TNG and DS9 could deal with threats to the federation or its allies. But Voyager has just been about threats to itself.

So, the next series has to have a good storng base for sotries. DS9 was the only series that really had alot of sotries left to tell when it ended. So, perhaps that next series having some type of stationary setting such as DS9 would be a good idea. A Starfleet Academy series might work for a stationary setting, but I think I would find a bunch of wesley crusher's running around as annoying. Someone I know has proposed a differnt kind of show based on Earth. Some type of special ops team, based on Earth, could be assigned starfleet's most important missions right out of starfleet command. However, what I immediatley found flawed about this series was that earth was too far from the federation;s frontier for a show like this. But what if starfleet discovers an alien ship with a transwarp drive. Its technlogies are far ahead of the federation's and barely understood. Its so advancd that Starfleet reserves it for the federation;s most important missions. It could be stationed on Earth, and travel out to the edges of the federation within days via iyts transwapr drive. W could also get a glimpse into federation civiilian life on Earth, as well as insights into starfleet command and the workings of the federation's government. Put in a post-dominion war setting of a dead Cardassian Empire, weakened Klingons, some internal moral issues in the federation, a suddenly more powerful romulan empire, and a stable wormhole to the gamma qudrant still running and I think you got yourself some good story possibilities. There's even a frightening villian that is still out there somewhere: the alien infiltrators from "Conspiracy." And this alien transwarp vessel, designtated USS Infinity, could get involved in all of these stories.

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USS Infinity
NX-100239
First Transwarp Ship of the Fleet
Epsilon Omega Shipyards

"It's like I said, the more things change, the more they stay the same."-Unknown Vulcan Philosopher



 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
We also need conflict. Good, continuing conflict. That's what made DS9 great, and made the characters into real people. It's also one of Voyager's failings.

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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons; for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
 


Posted by KXZ (Member # 119) on :
 
Continuity and GOOD writers. That would be a big improvement.

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All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon...
BOOM!
 


Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
Continuity, one large overall story, lots of 2+ episode sub-storylines, and a first episode airing several years after Voyagers final season.

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"Scan that ship Mr. Worf!"
"Aye sir, 600 DPI?"
 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Just to be contrary, nothing so far mentioned is necessary for a good fifth series.

What do you need? Talented actors and writers with vision. That's all.

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"If you are going to be my girlfriend please don't dump me after I like you."
--
Michael
 


Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
I thought one of the most interesting twists DS9 did early on was all the political intrigue. The rouge alliance between religious and political elements, etc.

There was alot of worry that DS9 would be too stationary, but they totally made the best of that and focused on Bajor's problems.

I agree with the above comment about having a continuing storyline, something that can branch into other things but always revolves around an overall story arc.

Yes this would require alot of forethought on the part of the creators. Don't hold your collective breath.

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"Resolve and thou art free."
 


Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
simple... a 5+ year break.

and these writers:

Ira Stephen Behr
Rene Echavarria
Ronald D. Moore
Robert Hewitt Wolfe
Hans Beimler
Naren Shankaar

for starters.

(That I know their names shows you how much I admire their work.)

You could also add in there the two who did "The Visitor", Michael Pillar and Peter Allan Fields.

(Go and watch "Progress" again... some good stuff.

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"Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
 


Posted by TerraZ on :
 
All it needs is a continuing story arc with lots of plot twists, continuity, not too much technobabble and as little as possible of "holodeck fantasy" episode.

Of course, that means good actors, good writers who can actually plan story in advance, not just "make it up" along the way.

Sorta like "Gargoyles" if you ask me. That's the kind of scope we need. Great story, great caracters, and at the end everything falls logically into place.

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-If you ask me, I think continuity is highly overrated...
*Brannon Braga*

-Give me Good Trek or give me Death!
*Me*

-Where were you when the brains were handed out?
*Sonic the Hedgehog*
 


Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
 
"You could also add in there the two who did 'The Visitor', Michael Pillar and Peter Allan Fields."

Strike one! Current Voyager writer Michael Taylor wrote "The Visitor" to have it slightly rewritten by Rene Echevarria.

And Joe Menosky. Definitely Joe Menosky (but Shankaar might be able to go...).

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 


Posted by Sir Camelot on :
 
I would like to see Star Trek move in the direction of an ER style of story telling and camera directing. I love how Er uses layered plots and and subplots to keep the action and drama going. This would help Star Trek to retain an audience and to make it fresher and newer, in story telling.
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
And me!

Well, this is a wishlist, no?

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"If you are going to be my girlfriend please don't dump me after I like you."
--
Michael
 


Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :
 
Something like Bab5, where the entire series is all planned out, with everything slowly falling into place until the finale, where the big shocking thing is revealed.

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My Stuff!

 


Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
 
Shows like "Lower Decks", "Hollow Pursuits", "The Inner Light" and so on is what made TNG so popular. Not about phasers, photon torpedoes, and exploring new worlds, but also a behind the scenes look at life aboard the ship. Voyager needs more of these to make the series more interesting.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

 


Posted by Saboc on :
 
What would make a good 5th series?
No more Picard. No more Riker. No more arrogant and heroic characters.
And please no more episodes that make humans seem and sound like heroes.
What would make a good new series?
Hmm...a non-human captain. I"m just sick of human captains who think they are so great just because they're human...Grrr...I'm so upset...(Picard, Riker, Kirk, and Kirk's stupid doctor are among a few)

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Logic is the beginning of wisdom

 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Saboc: You seem to have a strong anti-human bias. Are you by any chance not a human? (Just curious!)

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum



 


Posted by Saboc on :
 
LOL
I'm just talking from the statistical point of view. In the 24th century, the Federation consists of of like 150 members, right? For this reason, I doubt that human is the dominant species (in number). Why is it that all the starships shown, are filled with humans?

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Logic is the beginning of wisdom

 


Posted by Saboc on :
 
By the way, I am human. And I'm green and from the planet Mars. That's all.
LOL

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Logic is the beginning of wisdom

 


Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
 
We're not all human. This isn't a recent picture, but it will have to do:

[No, it isn't really my picture, but I don't have any digital pics.]

Ever notice how cartoon characters are considered "decent" as long as they're wearing a single article of human clothing? Boo-boo (of Yogi Bear) wears nothing but a bow tie.

I wonder if any alien races have similar dress codes.

"Kozak! The body paint on your nose is peeling!"

"Yikes! Thanks for telling me!"

[Camera pans back far enough so the audience can tell the two aliens are wearing only body paint, on their noses.]

After all, the Ferengi view clothed females as provocative. I suppose it's because you can only imagine what they look like underneath. I suppose Ferengi have very active imaginations?

--Baloo

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It is far less important to agree than it is to understand.
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
We're getting dangerously off topic here, but let's continue.

I remember that "visual futurist" Syd Mead (designer of USS Sulaco, USS Leonov, The Spinner, et al.) suggested that aliens might find human bodies and facial orifices (eyes, nose, ears, and mouth) so repulsive that we would need special suits (encounter suits) to hide our forms. What Ambassador Kosh wears on B5 is similar in concept. Of course, even on earth different cultures believe in revealing only certain parts of their faces or bodies and consider other parts extremely attractive. For example, Japanese men have traditionally liked the back of a woman's neck.

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum



 


Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :
 
Oh Lordy, another Gargoyles fan in the shape of TerraZ!
Woo-hoo!
Terra, do you have any idea what was the last episode? They were being shown here three years ago, and I ranted for a week when it was pulled -- I'm just wondering if they yanked it when it was finished, or if there was still life in the old gargoyle yet.

Garak: is Shankaar writing for the Outer Limits now? I seem to recall that name at the end of an episode or two that was shown lately.

BTW, Baloo isn't wearing any pants!!

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Devil: Oh look at the time! I'm late for services.
Stone: Services?
Devil: A group of young teenagers that have been celebrating the Black Sabbath are planning on deep-sixing their gym teacher tonight. I'm gonna go and give them a little encouragement.

Brimstone. May it rest in syndication.

 


Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
 
Ah-HA!

However, as an anthropomorphic creature I am considered perfectly decent as long as I'm still wearing my hat and shirt (and don't shave ).

As far as what I would like to see in the next series, I'm afraid they turned down my favorite choice when they decided not to do a prequel to TOS.

--Baloo

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It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm


 


Posted by TerraZ on :
 
Gaseous: It's not on topic, but who cares? The last episode of the 2nd season (the last "official" one since the 3rd season was produced by Buena Vista instead of Disney with worse animation, stupid stories except for the 1st epi and didn't have the huge story arc of the original. It aired on ABC) was called Hunter's Moon, a 3-parter. It basically follow the arrivals of the 3 hunters, descendants of Gilcom Gain (a scotish boy who was scared in the face by Demona way back in City of Stone) named Jason (the vengeful one), John (the pacifist) and their sister seeking revenge for the death of their father by Demona.

They embush the clan on a building with their hovercraft and Angela is almost fatally wounded. They save her but Goliath becomes very bitter. At the same time, Demona hatches a plan to wipe humanity by stealing a powerful herbicide and combining it with a carrier virus with a powerful spell which will destroy all sentient life. However, she intends to protect de Gargoyles with a relic called the Praying Gargoyle.

Jasonr passes as a cop and becomes Elisa's new partner and he falls in love with her. Meanwhile, the sister hunter becomes a secretary for Dominique Destine. All spare you most of the details but the Hunters find the Gargoyles on the clocktower (the police station) and although Joh doesn't want to, the sister fires 2 missiles at it. Fortunately, they had ducked, expecting the attacks after finding a tracer on them. Goliath backtracks the signal with Elisa and find the hover craft at a dam. During the fight, Elisa falls into the river with Jason. Thinking she is dead, Goliath is enraged.

Ok, time to sum it up. John gets a change of heart when he thinks Jason has died and he and his sister learn of Demona's plan and chase her to an abandonned cathedral. The gargoyles have also followed Demona so while she prepares her spell, the others fight each other. When everyone is almost beaten up, Elisa arrives with Jason who has now lost is desire for revenge. He wants to convince the others to stop but John, now convinced the Gargoyles are evil fires at Goliath. Jason intercepts the beam and fall wounded and John, under the shocks accuses the gargoyles and flies away, swearing to get revenge.

While Jason is tended by his sister, the gargoyles catches Demona as she has already cast the spell. All she must do is break a vial filled with the viral compound to destroy humanity but Goliath grabs the Praying Gargoyle and breaks it. Knowing her race is no longer protected, she flies away in rage. The police arrives to capture the clan but Xanatos reach them first and bring them home, on the castle. As the sun rise above the horizon, Goliath is kissed by Elisa. The end. Whew! What a pain to write! You'd better enjoy it!

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-If you ask me, I think continuity is highly overrated...
*Brannon Braga*

-Give me Good Trek or give me Death!
*Me*

-Where were you when the brains were handed out?
*Sonic the Hedgehog*
 


Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
*loves Gargoyles, too*
*vagule remembers those eps*

I think I saw the very last one. I'm going to have to get my friend (who has Bell ExpressVu [Thank God for satellite dishes]) to record them. I must admit, the "Goliath Chronicles" were pretty stupid. Goliath, Elisa, and Angela traveling around the world in a rowboat from Avalon....

And this is something that's been bothering me for a long time: What's Goliath's clone's name?

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"Waaawhooo! Lookie here ma, I caught me a lightnin' bug!"
-Jetstorm
 


Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
 
Dangerously off topic. Be careful, guys........

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
"Something like Bab5, where the entire series is all planned out, with everything slowly falling into place until the finale, where the big shocking thing is revealed."

There was a big shocking twist in the B5 finale? Someone want to point it out to me?

There was a twist in "In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum". There was a twist in "Messages from Earth". There was a twist in "Z'ha'Dum". "Sleeping in Light" however I managed to pretty much guess the frame-work before s5 had ever aired.

Not to say that it's a bad episode I'm telling ya.

And why is EVERYONE obsessed with continuity? I get the feeling that the stories can be crap, but as long as they say "Kirk's final year of his original 5 year mission aboard the constitution class USS Enterprise NCC 1701 was 2269" everyone would be happy.

And to counter the B5 thing, DS9 never planned it's story-arcs out (much). Buffy never plans it story arcs out much beyond a year. And they have both been the best shows on TV for the past half-decade.

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*gasp* "The pictures...they're...coming...alive!"
-Abe Simpson, on the miracle of the moving image

 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Well, a lot of the time, discontinuity is what makes the shows crap... :-)

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"Is he live or dead? Has he thoughts within his head?"
-Black Sabbath, "Iron Man"
 


Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
The term "continuity" should be better defined. Is it rather the logical continuity that the series must not present anything as impossible which nevertheless happens a few episodes later. This is crap indeed, and I admit it happened in Voyager but in all other Trek series as well.

If, however, plot continuity is expected, then TOS and TNG didn't have any. Even DS9 didn't have as much continuity as commonly stated, simply because no important officer of an important space station is supposed to go on a long vacation or even a spy mission for several months, and they wouldn't have business as usual on the station all the time. About two thirds of the plots during the Dominion War could have taken place during the first three seasons as well.

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"Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions." (VOY: "Infinite Regress")
Ex Astris Scientia
 




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