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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,9,37,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:37 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Here's a religious/ sociological one for you. Ther have been several references to ship board Christmas parties in the various series and we see the Nexus Picard family celebrating in Generations.<P>Here's the question: Does it strike anybody as odd that a culture that, as a whole, doesn't believe in creation or God or a Savior (especially considering that such a concept is limited to the Human race) still celebrates Christmas? I know there's probably the whole thing with it being a tradition (although even in the world today, it's by no means a world wide tradition) but it has always confused me. <P>------------------<BR>"Resolve and thou art free." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The First One</b> <br /><small>Member # 35</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,9,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:53 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> They don't bloody do it enough, if you ask me. The Christmas CapComs are almost upon us and can I find any good pics APART from the Nexus scene (which I used last year)? Nope.<P>Besides, considering how many bad things happen to the Federation around the New Year, why shouldn't they do something to cheer them up? Something to take their minds off Borg incursions, Dominion Wars, and so forth. . . 8) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aethelwer</b> <br /><small>Member # 36</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,12,1,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:01 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "Aren't we forgetting the true meaning of Christmas, to celebrate the birth of Santa Claus?" - Bart Simpson<P>Christmas isn't about religion. It's about going shopping and getting stuff. And eating lots and lots of food.<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/" TARGET=_blank>Frank's Home Page</A><BR>"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,12,21,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:21 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It might not be as odd as it seems. More than 200 years ago, Christmas wasn't strictly observed by anyone. It gained popularity during the Victorian era as a family occasion, boosted largely by the popularity of "A Christmas Carol" by Charles Dickens (the only one of his works in my library, perhaps to my discredit) and "A Visit From Saint Nicholas" by Clement C. Moore.<P>By the end of the 19th century, Christmas was firmly entrenched as a religious holiday, but the world of commerce had already identified it as a potential moneymaker. Santa Clause did not get his distinctive, modern appearance until sometime during the 1920s or 1930s when Coca-Cola began featuring the "Jolly Old Elf" (hereinafter abbreviated as the JOE) in its print and billboard ads. Prior to that time, the JOE had been portrayed in a variety of cold-weather gear typical of the day, and had been portrayed fairly often as a wizened little gnome much smaller than a normal human.<P>The commercial aspect of Christmas has grown to such proportions that the origins and meaning of it are overshadowed by its economic significance. If you doubt the previous statement, I challenge you to count references to Christmas in commercials and the news, and note whether they have anything to say about the religious significance of the holiday. It's getting so even Jews and Moslems can observe Christmas (as it is observed in the United States) with the same ease one might observe Labor Day. It is about as secular a holiday as it can be.<P>It could be that by the 23d century and later, that the non-secular meaning of Christmas (as a holiday) has become so irrelevant to the way most people live, that only devout Christians (and perhaps not all of them) observe it as a religious festival. The rest just look upon it (as with any secular holiday) as a break from the routine.<P>No episode of Star Trek has shown us the observation of Halloween or Thanksgiving, either (as far as I have been able to determine). Come to think of it, have we ever seen any holiday observed in Trek (onscreen) whatsoever, other than Picard's Christmas in the Nexxus?<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>Remember: pillage <I>before</I> you burn!<BR>-- G. Khan<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P><p>[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited November 12, 1999).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The First One</b> <br /><small>Member # 35</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,12,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Other race's holidays, yes. And there was the mention of a Hindu festival (of light?) in "Data's Day." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>grb</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,13,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:09 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> They also observed "Federation Day," which is the day of the foudning of the federation, and "Captain Picard Day" was celebrated by the children of the Enterprise-D.<P>------------------<BR>USS Infinity<BR>NX-99237<BR>First Transwarp Ship of the Fleet<BR>Discovered Stardate 4578<BR>San Fransico Fleet Yards<P>"The more things change, the more they stay the same."-Unknown Vulcan Philosopher<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,13,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:49 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, I totally agree that it has probably been so firmly entrenched in Terran society by the 24th Century that it continues to be observed purely out of tradition. It was probably one of the few things people looked forward to during such terrible times as the Eugenics wars and WW3 and thus continued on while things like (the American holiday) Thanksgiving and Holloween got lost.<P>And no, I don't celebrate Christmas either.<P>------------------<BR>"Resolve and thou art free." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,13,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:54 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Frank and Baloo perfectly expressed what I wanted to say too. Somehow I knew that Coca Cola invented the abominable Santa Claus. Either them or McDonald's or Disney.<P>------------------<BR>"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."<BR>A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,15,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:03 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Careful, Bernd. You're criticizing tradition! Of course, In America, anything older than your parents is a tradition.<P><center><IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/Winky.gif"></center><P>------------------<BR>Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul.<BR>--Mark Twain<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A> <P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,21,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:19 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Erm... Didn't they celebrate Thanksgiving in "Charlie X"? Gene Roddenberry played the voice of the ship's chef whose turkey mysteriously disappeared.<P>------------------<BR>"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"<BR>-Commander Adams, <I>Forbidden Planet</I> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The First One</b> <br /><small>Member # 35</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,21,23,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:23 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> So they did. . . only Charlie turned the turkeys into live gobblers. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,15,12,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 15, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Oh, sorry, I mean I kinda like Santa Claus (if he carries gifts only for me), I sometimes drink that brown stuff (if it is for free on a party or so), I enjoy a BigM�c here and then (is this really spelled with "�" in German? I have to check it, anyway, still better than starving) and I love Disney (well, at least the classic stuff). <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."<BR>A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,15,20,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 15, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Didn't a Christmas party play part in the background of a TOS ep (dagger of the mind, IIRC)?<P>------------------<BR>Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons; for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Gaseous Anomaly</b> <br /><small>Member # 114</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,16,16,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 16, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:15 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> *God I leave here for a few days and the place has swelled with posts and the odd New dis-Member-ment or two...anyway*<P>Eddington mentioned to Sisko his cooking the senior staff a Thanksgiving dinner in <I>Blaze of Glory</I>.<P>Bernd: no, it's just BigMac over here and I'm sure in the States as well. <BR>In most non-IndoEuropean languages it's equivalent nomenclature is "Flimsy rag of meat in watery carbohydrate sandwitch". I think.<P>------------------<BR>Devil: Oh look at the time! I'm late for services.<BR>Stone: Services?<BR>Devil: A group of young teenagers that have been celebrating the Black Sabbath are planning on deep-sixing their gym teacher tonight. I'm gonna go and give them a little encouragement.<P><I>Brimstone</I>. May it rest in syndication.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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