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"The Founder is wise in all things..."
"We live to serve the Founders..."
Unless you're talking about someone else.------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
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"If you are too sicked because of the way I look and who I am today, you can always come back and judge me tomorrow..."
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
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"Resolve and thou art free."
As for Picard, didn't he get command because he saved the ship when the previous captain was killed, or something? Besides, both he and Kirk are supposed to be two of the greatest captains in SF history. That means they would probably have shown quite a bit of promise as young officers, and been promoted.
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"'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'"
-Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation
Visit My Website at:
Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research and Development
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
Then there's Nog. He went from Cadet, to Ensign, to Lieutenant very quickly. Hell, Kim's been an ensign for over 5 years! Of course war time always seemed to be a good way to get promotions.
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Calvin: "My life needs a rewind/erase button."
Hobbes: "...and a volume control."
Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.
[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited December 27, 1999).]
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All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon...
BOOM!
Regarding Riker's and Picard's quick promotions versus Data's long stint as a Lt. Comm., I think command division officers probably have more opportunites to move toward command levels than yellow uniforms do. And yes, Picard got command of the ship because he saved it after the captain died. I think he was a full Lt. when that happened. Although Riker said that Picard had been "a first officer yourself" so Picard must have been the XO of the Stargazer as a Lt.
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"Resolve and thou art free."
[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 27, 1999).]
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"'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'"
-Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
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All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon...
BOOM!
Eddington said in "The Adversary" that you don't make Capt wearing a gold uniform." He could've been being sarcastic, but I seriously doubt that gold uniforms get promoted beyond Commander anymore (accept for the Admirals incharge of security that we've seen in DS9). That's what the command division (red uniforms) is for.
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"Resolve and thou art free."
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"Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.
Does anyone know if U.S. Navy medical personel are able to rise to such high ranks? I guess it doesn't really matter, but it would give us a basis for comparison.
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"Resolve and thou art free."
Still, Cmdr is the highest blueshirt rank explicitly seen so far, if one excludes McCoy's flag rank. And Lt.Cmdr is the highest yellowshirt one in the TNG era. But I wouldn't think of these as any sort of ceiling or anything - it's just that we don't visit facilities where high-ranking blueshirts would work, and by coincidence we haven't spotted any of those thousands of Security Cmdrs and Captains yet.
As for Eddington saying a yellowshirt can't make Captain, I thought Sisko just said to him that he couldn't become a starship captain without changing the color of his shirt. He could probably become a Security or Engineering officer of Captain rank or higher, but would not be allowed to command a starship.
Timo Saloniemi
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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
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"...nothing unreal exists..."
I may also be wrong about this too, but if I recall correctly, the Surgeon General is an actual rank in the military structure, albeit it is definately an academic/scientific/technological division of the Department of Defense.
Some one in the military please contribute!
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"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
The wonders of the Internet.
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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.
(Senior Airman SrA).For officers it's a bit different. I think they must make Lieutenant Colonel (Lt. Col. just above Major) prior to the 14-year mark or be separated (prior enlisted who become officers may remain in for 20 years if they don't get past Major, and may retire at that point). After an officer makes Lt. Col., I'm not certain if there are any up-or-out points prior to the 30-year mark. Generals (or so I think) may stay in for up to 30 years, which may (probably) be waivered if they are serving an important post (such as Air Force Chief-of-staff).
In Trek, I think things work differently. In one episode, where Q allowed Picard to live his life over, Picard wound up a Lieutenant aboard the Ent-D. Before WW II, a regular officer (not reserves or guard) who was a graduate from the service academy could serve about as long as he cared, without regard to whether he got promoted. The U.S. revised that system around the time of WW II, but it was either during or after the war that the changes were effected.
--Baloo
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"Politicians and diapers should be changed regularly, for the same reason."
--(Unknown)
Come Hither and Yawn...
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited January 15, 2000).]
About Kirk: We don't know the exact circumstances behind how he got the Enterprise. Which wasn't the flagship BTW. It wasn't a legend at the time. Sure, Pike might have made it a bit famous, but it was Kirk's five year mission that was suppossed to have made it "legendary".
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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."
Mr Garrison
I am surprised that Riker wasn't forced into the command chair. They needed a lot of good starship commnders to win the war.
Even though they aren't cannon, the three 'Brother's Keeper' books about Kirk said that he was naturally a really good commander.
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All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon...
BOOM!
Riker, Worf (A klingon cruiser), Data, Beverly (medical ship) and Picard all commanding their own starships. (After the end of the Dominion war) since they had all been forced into command.
La Forge and Deanna would still be on the Enterprise.
Nurse Ogawa would be the Chief MO on the E and that Trill woman would be the Helm officer.
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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited January 16, 2000).]
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"I'm not feeling alright today, I'm not feeling that great"
Did she enjoy her role?
What was the Character's name?
Did she like Riker's errr joystick? (which he used for the Riker Maneuvre)
Alternate Scene:
La Forge: That'll probably be called the Riker Maneuvre
Riker (under his breath): That maneuvre's strickly for the bedroom...
La Forge: errr Commander... these communicators pick-up EVERYTHING you know...
Riker: Riker OUT!
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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.
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"I cannot live out that life.
That man is bereft of passion... and imagination!
That is not who I am!"
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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.
Riker should certainly have gotten a ship of her own during the war, though. And perhaps he even did? Since Data and Worf were "on assignment" in "Insurrection", what's to say that Riker couldn't have been assigned a ship for a while, too, until some sort of a lull in the war occurred (Picard speaks of "peace negotiations" with the Dominion during the movie's timeframe) and Riker was recalled to the E-E?
Timo Saloniemi
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"The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate."
-Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"
But I don't think Starfleet works this way. I think they keep you around as long as you're doing your job, whether you've earned a promotion or not. If you haven't, you just don't get the responsibility of a higher rank. If you're not doing your job, you get steel towed back to Kansas.
And Picard would have to have served as the Stargazer's XO at some point. Riker said that Picard had been "a first officer yourself". He could have doubled as helmsman or whatever else he may have said he was. The Stargazer was, after all, a small ship.
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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore
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"If you attempt to return the device to the store, and you are missing one single peanut, the store personnel will laugh in the chilling manner exhibited by Joseph Stalin just after he enslaved Eastern Europe."
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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore
The answer is yes. My dentist was a Commander. Her boss was a Captain in charge of the clinic (and still occasionally practising dentistry). The CO of the naval hospital at the base where I was stationed was also a Captain (MD), and I saw at least two other Captain MDs there but I don't know if they were attatched to the hospital or just visiting.
[This message has been edited by Obi Juan (edited January 20, 2000).]
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All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon...
BOOM!
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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore
I believe Dr. Beverly Crusher was in command of the Pasteur because, above all else, she was a ship's doctor. (Sort of like the US Navy's requirment that only former aviators may command an aircraft carrier).
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
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"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
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"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
Medical personnel (and other "staff" folks like lawyers, supply folks, chaplins, etc.) are given ranks exactly like "line" ranks - with equal authority etc. I can give orders to line officers who I outrank, and all that - and, at least in theory, I can be promoted to any rank. I could even get command - of something like a hospital or similar but not of a ship (only "unrestricted line officers" can command a ship). If I was (God forbid) the only officer on a ship I'd be in charge - but I would defer if a line Ensign was available (I'm a LT). {the ENS would pass choices by me out of politeness but would obviously be the one making them}.
In practice the highest rank I can hope for is CAPT, CDR is more likely. It is simply a matter of supply and demand - you get promoted according to your skills, but there also must be a billet or slot open for you to get promoted into, they are set by Congress and are based on money. As a public health officer their are limited CAPT billets available as they want to limit the money spent.
In addition - hospital ships are not commanded by Doctors in USN - the MD runs the hospital ON the ship, but someone else drives it.
Now - all of this has only as much impact on SF as Paramount wants, and in fact much of it is a fairly recent thing. Early in USN history staff folk's ranks were not the same as line ranks. It would be valid to make our ranks "warrant" ranks or whatever. (They made them the same to resolve pay problems and the like).
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TK
Still, I don't see the logic that would drive Starfleet into giving command of medical ships to MDs. We've only seen one hospital ship, total, and her commanding officer did not at any point establish herself as a practicing doctor, only as a former one. Beverly Picard wore the red uniform and had had plenty of time to re-educate herself into a full command-line officer between TNG and the "All Good Things.." future.
I take it USN hospital ships usually have civilian crews and ship's masters, just like most of the support vessels do?
Timo Saloniemi
SF and pay - I agree, what I was trying to say was that a MD with 20 years in is going to want to receive the same chance at promotion as a line officer with 20.
Speaking of which - (and almost on topic) if Picard has been in for what, 30 years +? What is the typical career length - I mean that is a really long time!
Even more on topic - It sort of looks like they handle time till next rank like the old sail era British navy (see the Hornblower books) some people advance quickly due to talent and/or connections (getting the right job, etc.) and some don't. Also one can stay at a rank with no ill effects, which isn't done today.
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TK
[This message has been edited by Toadkiller (edited February 28, 2001).]