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Posted by warbird5 on :

I was wonderin since the Doiminion war is over and all the empires where hurt real bad, Can the Federation take on the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire if it had too?

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Could they take on the Romulans? They might be able to put up something of a fight for a little while, but they wouldn't win.

Could they take on the Klingons? Almost certainly. The Klingons were at war w/ the Feds, then the Cardies, then the Dominion. They've not had a good few years recently. Besides that, they probably weren't as strong as the Feds to begin with. I don't think the Klingons are in a position to take on any of the major powers single-handedly right now (bearing in mind that the Cardies don't really qualify as a major power anymore).

Now, to address what you actually asked, could they take on the Romulans and the Klingons? Both at once? I really doubt it.

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

If we are talking the era immediately following the Dominion war, then the Federation could probably defend itself against the Klingons, and despite what TSN says, I think they could handle the Romulans too if they got lucky.

Of course, the likelihood that either of the two would pick this moment to invade is small. The Klingons have worked off enough aggression to pacify them for a few decades, and the Romulans will (especially in light of their casualties) prefer to resume their game of political chess until they recover.

And recall the credo of the Shadows....
The Federation of circa 2380 will be stronger than ever, and given its industrial base and technological superiority will continue tobe the "Alpha male" of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants.

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Gene: "I AM Star Trek"
Yvonne: "You can't sum yourself up in so small a package."
Gene: "SMALL?!!"

- Gene Roddenberry: The Last Conversation

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

From "Inter Arma...", it would appear that at least Section 31 believes that the war-weakened Klingons are no threat to anybody and will become passive after the war, yet Romulans will emerge as a bigger threat than ever. Whatever we say of these guys, they probably do know what they are talking about.

In TOS and TNG, the Romulans often seemed like underdogs, at first very primitive and then greatly outnumbered, so that their only hope for victory was guile and the use of others to do their dirty work. I doubt the Romulans increased their absolute military strength in direct response to the war (that would be too altruistic of them), but their relative strength probably is now almost but not quite on par with the UFP and the pre-war Klingons. The Klingons probably have the resources and the will to rebound rather quickly, though.

But what about the other players? So far, UFP has indeed behaved as if it is the "Alpha male of Alpha", but we know next to nothing about Tholians or Breen. Neither has been in an open 1-to-1 war with the Feds, so we don't know how strong they are. And Alpha is big: even if the UFP is 8,000ly across as they claim, that's peanuts compared to the roughly 50,000 by 50,000 by 5,000 ly volume of the whole quadrant. The true "Alpha male" may yet to be undiscovered...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

And thereby hangs a spin-of

I recall reading some Fan stuff proposing the Tholians as intergalactic refugees, who immigrated their entire civilisation to the Milky Way to escape a powerful enemy. Thus they are content to stake out a patch of turf, keep a low profile, and skin alive anyone who steps onto their soil.

The Breen are a bizarre choice for conquerors, as their main adveraries all colonise on Class-M worlds. Despite some nonsensical garbage to the contrary, the weight of evidence is the Breen are from a world of ice. They're probably furry! Anyway, they cannot survive without those suits on any main Federation world. Perhaps they're simply in desperate need of new resources.

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"You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION"
- Faithless / Reverence

Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :

We can come to the conclussion that since the Breen sided with the Dominion they are not as strong as the rest of the groups in the Alpha Quad. While they did have the advantage of their energy draining weapon that is no longer a concern to anyone.

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Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.

Posted by warbird5 on :

Basically, the only threat to the UFP is the Romulans but their not much of a threat. The Breen were probably demilitarised. The Federation could invade and take the Romulans over within 5 yrs, but i would drain the resources of both empires

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

warbird5: I think you're forgeting that the Federation don't invade other empires but only fight to defend themselves. The Feds will only fight the Roms if they have no other choice.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Exactly Dax, and as per "The Neutral Zone" - Romulan fascination with Humanity - lends them always to counterpunch - never directly punch... so there might be tensions along the way - but unless it was something MAJOR - The Feds won't fight first - the Romulans will only attack when they have been attacked.

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Perhpas I should rephrase what I said earlier. If the Romulans decided that they were going to take over the UFP and launched a full-scale attack (both through regular ship warfare and through sabotage and subterfuge, which they're certainly better at), the Feds wouldn't stand a chance. However, the Rommies are smarter than that. They know the Feds won't attack them, so there's no reason to waste so much in taking them over. The Feds would lose if it happened, but it never would happen.

As for the Tholians, the Feds already beat them in at least one war. Since we only rarely hear mention of this war, we can figure it probably wasn't a particularly difficult victory. I would say that, on the whole, the Tholians aren't really a major power. Perhaps they would fall into a class of "minor major powers".

I don't think the Breen alone are very strong at all. I mean, they had a weapon that would completely disable a ship w/ one shot. But they never used it until they joined up w/ the Dominion. I thik this is because they knew that, even w/ this "superweapon", they didn't have enough ships/manpower/resources/whatever to actually win a war w/ any of the major powers. And, now that they've lost so much in the Dominion War, I would say they are probably going to slink back into, for the most part, seclusion from the major powers. They'll probably beat up on some weaker races around them to keep their egos up, but I don't think the Feds will be getting much trouble out of them (nor do I think the Breen would be much trouble, anyway, even if they did attack).

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

I disagree with that statement. A war between the federation and the romulans after the war will result in a win for the federation. The federation has several new ships and new weapons systems unlike the romulan empire who are still using the b-type warbird.
Plus according to odo the romulan empire is no state to invade anybody.

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"We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy

members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm

Posted by warbird5 on :

all these are what ifs? i know the Federation would not instigate a war. Even if the Romulans did launch a full scale surprise pre-emptive strike against the Federation, they wouldn't get any farther than 100 or so light yrs into Fed space before getting pushed back to the border and possible conquest and annexation. the Federation is superior in technology and resources and ships. Basically they have quality and quantity on their side.

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

For my fiction, I mention that Starfleet is so shattered by the war that the are numerically inferior to the Romulan Fleet, however, the Federation-Klingon Alliance is sufficient to keep the Romulans in line. If the Romulans were to strike now, I believe the Federation could not resist them without the Klingons. In five years, however, I believe that the Federation economy will have rebuilt to the degree that Starfleet will once again be the dominant power.

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"I promise you, Wilma, that not one man on this force will rest until the criminal scum that did this are behind bars. Now let's go get a bite to eat." - Frank Drebbin, Detective Lieutenant in Police Squad

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

nx001a: So what if the Rommies still use the same warbirds. Like they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Whatever new ships the Federation might have, half of them were destroyed during the war. Remember that the Romulans didn't start fighting anyone until right at the end of the war. They would have suffered far, far fewer losses that the Feds did.

Of course, you can say that the Feds would beat the Rommies because, since it's a TV show and the Feds are the main characters, they can't lose. But, if the writers were to create an full-scale invasion of the UFP by the Romulans, and they wanted to be at all realistic about it, the Rommies would have to win.

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

One thought - is there really anything stopping a cloaked Warbird from making it to Earth? It would be pretty harsh if the Roms pulled the same trick on Earth as the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order did on the Founder homeworld ("The Die is Cast").

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

If the romulans did send a cloaked fleet then they would be detected. Something like a large "replace with techno babble" detected at high warp approaching earth. To me this sounds like a fleet of cloaked ships plus there must be a tachyon grid near by.

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"We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy

members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm

Posted by warbird5 on :

i think there's a tachyon grid that would detect any cloaked romulan ships that try to cross the neutral zone

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Didn't anyone read my post - Troi said - after research in 'The Neutral Zone' TNG - that the Romulans rarely - if ever pull the first punch - they would rather be blameless - AND its their fundamental curiosity of humans, that has stopped a full scale war.

They can be very calm and peaceful one moment then savage and deadly the next. A race of extremes.

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000