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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Savar</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,30,2,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 30, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Star Trek at its best is a showcase for great writing, superb acting, and state-of-the-art special effects. This notwithstanding, there were a few moments where I thought the writers missed an opportunity to create a really good story.<P>One example immediately comes to mind: The Final Frontier. Much of the story was so "out there" that Gene Roddenberry himself considered it outside of canon. Spock's long lost half-brother hijacks some ambassadors and steals the Enterprise to go find God. I for one thought the messiah complex idea could have worked quite well if Sybok had been more stoic and detached and had not spent so much time grinning. It would have made the character more menacing. This is only a minor point, however. I feel the missed opportunity here was with the God-creature that was encountered on the planet. <P>Ultimately, the entire movie ends in an anti-climax with the defeat of a second-rate nasty who can be destroyed by a few blasts from a Klingon disruptor. A simple change would have made a HUGE impact on fans and created a kind of story arc bridging the latest movie with the series' pilot episode. The evil entity should have been Gary Mitchell.<P>TOS fans will recall that Gary Mitchell was Kirk's friend from his Academy days and Kirk asked for him on his first command. In the pilot episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Gary Mitchell developed extraordinary paranormal powers after the Enterprise passed through the great barrier at the rim of the galaxy. Ultimately, he became dangerous and was presumed destroyed. Bringing back Gary Mitchell would have made a great story. It would have made much more sense and created a bit more drama. Would Kirk still be harboring guilt over having to kill his friend? How would he feel about having to do it again? Would this lead to a revelation as to why Spock could not kill his brother? Star Trek V was panned by a lot of fans, many who regarded it the "worst" of the movies, but it had possibilities. The movie was about family, about how important families are in our human experience and how the crew had become a family of sorts. If only for a few key changes, The Final Frontier could have had an impact similar to The Voyage Home.<P><P>------------------<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,30,7,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 30, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:20 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Wasn't Return to Eden also a similar plot? It would have been interesting to link it to that also.<P>You can link nearly all the movies with episodic counterparts:<P>TMP - The Changeling<BR>TWOK - Space Seed<BR>TSFS -<BR>TVH - Tomorrow is Yesterday<BR>TFF - Return to Eden<P>------------------<BR>"Who wouldn't be the one you love <BR> Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - <I>Stand Inside Your Love</I>, The Smashing Pumpkins <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,30,8,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 30, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:19 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A very fascinating, unfortunately much too late proposal. Looking at the six movies with the TOS crew, every of them moved a bit further away from the series.<P>I - a prolonged and effects-heavy TOS episode, but still with the "freshness" and overall optimism of the old series. I would have easily accepted it as the pilot of the Star Trek II series.<P>II & III - Although these have fewer and cheaper effects, they rather turn to the usual way (sci-fi) movie stories are told. The atmosphere of TOS is sacrificed for big emotions, hatred and death. An outer sign is the worn-out look of people as well as starships and the dark bridge of the Enterprise.<P>IV & V - There is not much Trek left in these movies, except for the basic setting and characters. The movies are produced in a way to appeal to the common theater visitor, with crazy stories and funny quotes (and often cheesy acting).<P>VI - Basically the same as for IV & V, but it was mostly not funny at all. I didn't even recognize many of the characters anymore, so much were they distorted to serve the story.<P>Back to the possibility to create a story arc, this wouldn't have been possible at the time Star Trek V was produced, considering that it was not very Trek-like anyway.<P>------------------<BR>"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,30,19,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 30, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:39 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That's an interesting suggestion, but unlike Khan, Garry Mitchell didn't make such a big impact on the fans. Everyone, even casual fans, remebers Khan, and Space Seed is considered one of TOS's best episodes. (I've actually only seen it once or twice about 20 years ago. Also, the style of that show was sort of "proto-Trek: and perhaps too unlike the rest of the series.) I'm sure that a lot of the younger fans have never heard of Garry MItchell or have even watched that episode. The movie script would have had to give a lot of exposition about the history of Garry Mitchell, which would have slowed things down and/or given away the ending pretty early. <P>Regarding ST V, it was only done in by the attempt to add slapstick humor in the wake of the popular, comedic ST IV. These attempts at humor didn't fit at all with the more serious elements. I did like the exploration of the inner demons of the characters. Also the special effects were not by ILM and looked very bad. Finally, the Klingons were poorly done and made zero impact. <P>------------------<BR>When you're in the Sol system, come visit the <A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/sfmuseum/" TARGET=_blank> Starfleet Museum </A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,31,0,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 31, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:06 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd have to disagree with your assessment of TMP, Bernd. It strikes me as being the most unepisodic Trek movie. Very...cinematic in its scope, for better or worse.<P>------------------<BR>"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."<BR>--<BR>Camper Van Beethoven<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Savar</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,31,1,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 31, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:50 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, The Final Frontier left much to be desired, to be sure. Yes, the SFX were below par, it was campy, and the story lacked depth. <P>I really think Khan is only as memorable as he is because he was featured in the second movie. "Space Seed" was arguably one of the better episodes, but the movie certainly lifted the character out of episodic obscurity. Fans who only vaguely remembered who Khan was learned of his previous encounter with Kirk and the Enterprise by the dialog in the movie. No exposition was really necessary. The really young fans who never heard of Khan could then enjoy watching the episode that started it all with renewed enthusiam. The same effect would be seen by re-introducing the now god-like Gary Mitchell character. Newer fans would seek out the pilot episode to bone up on their Trek history.<P>This change alone wouldn't have made a stellar movie, of course, but it would have provided a backbone to the screenplay. Ideally, I think the action of Sybok massing his army of kooks and hijacking the Enterprise should have taken place only within the first thirty minutes of the movie. Most of the action/drama should have taken place on the planet, with the crew dealing with a very powerful Mitchell, but in human form, rather like a extremely malevolent Q. Perhaps Kirk and crew could have retaken the Enteprise, but not before Sybok and his associates had escaped to the planet. Then the crew would be faced with the prospect of having to rescue their former captors from Mitchell's private hell. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,31,4,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 31, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Sol: Maybe I have to distinguish between the possibilities offered by the big screen and the way movies are actually produced.<P>You're right in that TMP is very cinematic, it shows much more effect as well as dialog than the TOS episodes, no matter if this was actually missing or not. TMP is "opening the big screen for Star Trek".<P>The later movies certainly had denser stories, but they obviously suffered from too many people bringing in their particular ideas. I have the impression that it was tried to make Star Trek popular among non-fans, which is very obvious in ST IV and unfortunately opened the way to spoil ST V (whose basic plot was promising).<P>------------------<BR>"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Hobbes</b> <br /><small>Member # 138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,31,7,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 31, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:09 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Of they make the movie to try to be popular among non-fans. Paramount didn't make the movies because of the fans, they made them to make money.<P>------------------<BR><I>"Tigers are mean! Tigers are fierce! Tigers have teeth and claws that pierce!"</I><BR><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/thefsd" TARGET=_blank>Federation Starship Datalink</A> - On that annoying Tripod server, sucks don't it? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,31,19,33,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 31, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:33 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Maybe an even bigger reason that they couldn't have used the Garry Mitchell plot device is that they already brought back Khan in ST II. Also, I don't know what kind of shape Gary Lockwood is in. If he looked better at that time then the flabby captain, Shatner wouldn't have wanted him back. <P>But this is all academic. Do you have any good ideas for new movies?<P>------------------<BR>When you're in the Sol system, come visit the <A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/sfmuseum/" TARGET=_blank> Starfleet Museum </A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,1,0,59,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 01, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:59 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, Gary Lockwood floated off into space in <i>2001</i>, so maybe he got lost out there somewhere... :-)<P>------------------<BR>me: "I need a new sig..."<BR>CC: "Well create one."<BR><I>-why I don't have a real signature</I> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The359</b> <br /><small>Member # 37</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,1,15,7,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 01, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:07 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Gary Lockwood was in <i>2010</i> as well, wasn't he? I don't remember him looking that badly in that.<P>------------------<BR>"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--<I>it's full of stars!</I>" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey<P><A HREF="http://www.expage.com/page/The359" TARGET=_blank>The 359 Webpage</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,2,1,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 02, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:38 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Was he? He would have been a different character, since Frank Poole (wasn't that the name?) drifted off into space in <i>2001</i>, and wasn't found until the year 3001 (at least, according to the books).<P>------------------<BR>me: "I need a new sig..."<BR>CC: "Well create one."<BR><I>-why I don't have a real signature</I> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,2,4,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 02, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:15 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> No Lockwood in 2010. He is apparently still alive, however, and his last recorded role was a guest shot on the show Dark Skies.<P>He also was reunited with William Shatner on two nonconsecutive occasions.<P>God bless the <a href="http://us.imdb.com/Name?Lockwood,+Gary">IMDb</a>.<P>------------------<BR>"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."<BR>--<BR>Camper Van Beethoven<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Hobbes</b> <br /><small>Member # 138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,2,5,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 02, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:31 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Exactly how many 2001 movies are there? I tried to watch the first one but it was so long, boring, and quiet I couldn't. To me it was like everything was drawn-out and I couldn't help but think, "Ok already, move the story along!"<P>------------------<BR><I>"Tigers are mean! Tigers are fierce! Tigers have teeth and claws that pierce!"</I><BR><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/thefsd" TARGET=_blank>Federation Starship Datalink</A> - On that annoying Tripod server, sucks don't it? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,2,13,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 02, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Just the two, but 2010 was nothing like 2001. Just some similar plot elements. It was a good movie in its own right, but it is not art like 2001. Now if they'd had Kubrik directing, maybe, but he was so determined that there not be a sequel that he had all sets and models destroyed. I do recomend seeing it, if you like a good sci-fi movie and some answers, but you'd be better off reading the book. Just don't touch 2061 or ESPECIALLY 3001. *shudder*<P>------------------<BR>You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TerraZ</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,4,9,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 04, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:00 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Amen to that... *shudders*<P>------------------<BR>-If you took that broomstick out of your tail-pipe once in a while, you might have some FUN for a change!<BR>*Rattrap - Beast Wars*<P>-Let the Fates land where they may!<BR>*Megatron - Beast Machines*<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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