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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,15,10,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 15, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:54 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I've got a few questions/remarks about the economy of the UFP in the 24th century. I'm not really good at making it a readable story, so it's a few points:<P>Picard & co. have repeatedly said that the UFP doesn't have money or materialistic needs anymore. This is very peaceful and politically correct of course, but is it realistic?<P>OK, the fed doesn't use money. How can you manage resources this way? How can you control the use of holodecks, replicators, etc.? Why is the fed still interested in gold-pressed latinum?<P>Then there's Quarks bar. If the bar is on a fed station, were there's no money amongst the Starfleeters, how can Quark make a profit out of them? How come there's an exchange office on DS9 wich also icludes Fed instructions (as seen in a Discovery documentary)?<P>Another thing: how do you get people doing the dirty jobs? Why would you want to risk your life on board a starship, when you can relax and get your adventures thru a holodeck?<P>------------------<BR><I>"When You're Up to Your Ass in Alligators, Today Is the First Day of the Rest of Your Life."</I><BR>-- Management slogan, Ridcully-style (Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent, Discworld)<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.prakesh.f2s.com" TARGET=_blank>Prakesh's Star Trek Site</A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aethelwer</b> <br /><small>Member # 36</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,15,11,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 15, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:03 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> This has been discussed a few times...basically, replicators etc. and an organised economy eliminate much of the need for money, but people can use it for things like Quark's if they need to.<P>As for why people would want to work on a starship, well...wouldn't a lot of people? <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/" TARGET=_blank>Frank's Home Page</A><BR>"It's easy to learn to drive a golf cart, but it's hard to express yourself in one." - Larry Wall <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Michael Dracon</b> <br /><small>Member # 4</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,15,14,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 15, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Warning!! MAJOR Voyager new episode spoiler ahead!!!<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>In one of the coming episodes of Voyager we get to hear that the EMH Mark 1 is now used for clean up duties (on starships), because there are newer versions of the EMH. So they could also be used for other dirty jobs. As for the pre-EMH era, I think a lot of dirty jobs are already done by machines.<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<P>$<BR>(end of message)<P>------------------<BR>"Look! I'm quoting myself."<BR>- me<P>(-=\V/=-) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>nx001a</b> <br /><small>Member # 291</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,16,9,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:50 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If you use Karl Marxs theories of government and evolution then the star trek economy on earth is socialism where everyone works but does not get paid. However, in a place like ds9 the federation might not use money but the majority of the universe does. Also in the 24th century there is a thing called qualifications still so if you don't have any then one will probably get the menial jobs but one will not starve and won't live in the streets. <P>------------------<BR>"We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy<P> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm</A> <P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Hobbes</b> <br /><small>Member # 138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,16,10,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:09 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As far as the no money line, I think that it's mostly Earth and humans, as well as several other Federation societies that don't use money. There's no doubt that there's many forms of currency in use in the Alpha Quadrant, Latium being the most well-known. Latium is the 24th century version of an American dollar, the dollar is used everywhere and has value in a lot of countries that already have it's own currency. As for how Starfleet officers can 'buy' a drink at Quark's, the only thing I can think of is a Federation credit deposit.<P>------------------<BR><I>"Tigers are mean! Tigers are fierce! Tigers have teeth and claws that pierce!"</I><BR><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/thefsd" TARGET=_blank>Federation Starship Datalink</A> - On that annoying Tripod server, sucks don't it? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Saltah'na</b> <br /><small>Member # 33</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,16,12,1,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:01 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Or a regulation forcing Quark not to charge any Starfleet officers for certain things........<P>------------------<BR>"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."<BR>Psychiatrist: "Again."<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,16,17,57,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:57 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Actually, I'd argue that the Federation is a long, long way from the ideal of a Marxian utopia.<P>------------------<BR>"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."<BR>--<BR>Camper Van Beethoven<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Xentrick</b> <br /><small>Member # 64</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,16,22,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> �If you use Karl Marxs theories of government and evolution then the star trek economy on earth is socialism where everyone works but does not get paid. �<P>I can think of another name for such an arrangement.<P>I think what is meant here is that everyone works and enjoys a share of the collective results. Great in a closed system, but a little tricky in an open galaxy. There's always the problem of free-loaders trying to sponge free hand-outs from the all generous State. Somehow, there's got to be a way of keeping track, keeping score.<P>If people can have anything and everything, why can't everyone have a starship or a personal transporter in their house? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,16,23,36,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 16, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:36 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Federation has about as much in common with the societal plan laid out in "The Communist Manifesto" as Andorra does. Why?<P>1.) The Federation has a government.<BR>2.) The Federation has private property. (Though Marx defined property in a few interesting ways.)<BR>3.) The "traditional" family unit is still in existance in the Federation, though it is by no means universal.<BR>4.) Perhaps more importantly, the Federation places an emphasis on the rights of the individual that is very much rooted in 18th century enlightenment thinking, as are the majority of real world nations in the West. This is not to say that Communism does not value the individual, or thinks that the community is more important. It does, but not in the negative sense that I know some believe. The ideal is that the needs of the individual and the needs of the community will be identical and inseperable. This is not what the Federation looks like, though.<P>------------------<BR>"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."<BR>--<BR>Camper Van Beethoven<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sol System (edited April 16, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,3,17,7,29,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 17, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:29 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>The ideal is that the needs of the individual and the needs of the community will be identical and inseperable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, Spock and Kirk were right after all... (ST2:TWOK)<P>------------------<BR><I>"When You're Up to Your Ass in Alligators, Today Is the First Day of the Rest of Your Life."</I><BR>-- Management slogan, Ridcully-style (Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent, Discworld)<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.prakesh.f2s.com" TARGET=_blank>Prakesh's Star Trek Site</A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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