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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

OK, I was watching "Legacy" the episode after "Remember Me" when Picard was explaining to Ishara Yar how Picard first met Tasha.

He said that Tasha was escorting wounded through a mine field on a planet that both Tasha's and His ship had been assigned to...

This episode was season 4 TNG

Tasha left the Turkana IV colony 15 years earlier to this episode so by Encounter At Farpoint that would have been 11 years prior...

Tasha was an officer who would have gone to the Academy... that is 4 years... she would have needed to apply once she got out of the colony... add a year...

that is 5 years.... from after the the time she left the colony till when she graduated... so that leaves 2 years between her graduating as an Ensign - presumably and coming aboard the E-D as a full Lt. so presumeably she spent one year as an Ensign and another as a Lt. J.G.

So Picard could have seen Tasha for the first time with in those two years... even if she had been on a Training ship as a Cadet that would still have left room for 4-5 years for Picard to have a command - before the Enterprise but AFTER the loss of the Stargazer.

Another point... In Samaritan Snare - Wesley says to Picard on hearing Picard's story about his encounter with three Naussicans... "Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation" - well we know the Klingons aren't part of the Federation - so I'm guessing that to let this line pass - Wesley must have meant when the Klingons became the Federation's Allies.

This too, might have been interesting with the Cardassian Wars arriving after that... And if the Klingons and The Federation were together against the Cardassians... it makes sense that Garak might have been stationed on Romulus... possibly the Romulans had a pact with the Cardassians - because the Klingons were with the Federation... This ALSO might explain the Tomed incident and the following period of isolationism from the Romulans...

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Picard might simply be speaking of a ship where he was aboard as a passenger or an observer, not as a commanding officer...

As for Wesley's remark (and Picard's reply where he's surprised and delighted that Wes knows something of history after all), it might be that this is a popular joke. The UFP propagandists have been promising that the Klingons will join the Federation for the better part of a century now - so if one wants to say that something happened a really long time ago, it's "before the Klingons joined the Federation"... Of course, it would be a bit strange for Picard to be delighted when Wes suggests that Picard graduated "before electricity was invented" or whatever the insult would be today!

Seriously, I'm all for the Klingon-UFP alliance being the reason the Romulans went to assist Cardassia. Apparently that assistance was relatively covert, though - it seems Dax considers it "long-missing proof" when she locates Romulan tech aboard DS9 in the first-seasoner "Dax".

The Klingon-UFP alliance seems to have been rather tedious up until the 2360s, though, since Picard in "Aquiel" considers it a big deal that there haven't been any Klingon raids into UFP territory for seven (!) years prior to the episode. The milestone Wesley is referring to may not have been all that big.

I suggest the 2344 defence of Narendra by the E-C as the historical turning point Wes was speaking of. it would come after Picard's graduation, and would be significant enough at least according to "Yesterday's Enterprise" dialogue.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I've been saying that Picard had a command between the two ships for years!! Finally someone believes me

It's also important to note that there is no way the ship Picard was saying he was on could've been the Ent D since Tasha was aboard the Ent D before Picard ever was.

Now as for the reason he has never spoken of this other command...well, I have a whole storyline planned out for that...

After the Stargazer.
Before the Enterprise.
There was another ship,
And another story.
Star Trek: Valhalla.

Oooooh, Ahhhhh!

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

I suppose that this was going to get mentioned sooner or later; I just thought that it would be by someone other than me.
Pocket Books or Simon & Schuster have a new book out soon called (I think) "The Valiant"(!) or some such, showing Picard looking quite fetching with hair and a TOS-Movie era uniform.
I think that this is about Picard's very first command, so stick that in your non-conon reference bongs and let the waves of exhilaration overwhelm you gently.

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Remember December '59
The howling wind and the driving rain,
Remember the gallant men who drowned
On the lifeboat, Mona was her name.

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Erm.. Picard's very first command was the Stargazer...

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"Keep on Trekking"
-D. Kelly

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Has anyone got the exact script of Legacy?? Any one got that script program??

He wasn't mentioning the E-D - he said something like - My ship and Tasha's ship...

He could have been hauling Garbage for all we know!

Andrew

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Actually the Klingons and the Federation only signed an alliance some time in the 2350's. They signed a disarmament and friendship pact (or something to that effect) in the 2290's in ST6. There was approx 60 years between the lowering of tensions and an actual alliance.

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"Blind faith is the crutch of fools"

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

"Her ship had responded to the distress call as had mine." I believe those are the exact words. "I knew that I wanted her on my next command." This implies that was captain of the ship he was on.

And I think "Valiant" or "The Valiant" is just the name of the book, not necessarily the name of the ship in the book. I've seen a picture of the cover somewhere and I was almost certain it was about the Stargazer. At least it better be.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited May 16, 2000).]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Geez, guys, this books been out for more than a month. (Of course, I buy everything the day it hits the shelves, -or before- so I supose I can forgive yas.)

1: The Title IS "The Valiant," but it refers to the pre-Fed, galactic-barrier-created-glow-eyed-supermen ship Valiant, descendants of whose crew figure prominently in the story.

2: It is about Picard taking command of the Stargazer when the ship is damaged, the captain is killed, and the first officer wounded.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Bah, ha! I think Picard actually was the first officer though. Riker said that Picard had been a first officer himself at one point. Actually, that statement by Riker kinda screws up Picard's back story. I suppose the fact that Picard was a first officer could have been invented as part of a scheme to cover up the events of Picard's second command...

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

You know the Klingons could have joined the Federation after ST VI, then regained sovereignty after they took care of their homeworld problem, and we could have NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT!

OOOoohh, if the producers get ahold of this!

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We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the
obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."
George Orwell

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

How *does* the official Picard backstory go? Not the Friedman references, nor the unfilmed script tidbits, but the aired data?

Do we know he took over the captaincy in a crisis where the former captain perished? Do we know he held the rank of Lieutenant back then? Do we know the position he held? Do we know the exact year? Did Picard become the captain of the ship, or a Captain by rank, or both? The Encyclopedia is beginning to lay on the cumulating evidence too thick, so we are getting a James Dixon style "this all is canon, references in episodes X through Y" blanket statement in the "Picard, Jean-Luc" entry. It's difficult to remember what was said and where.

I guess it would be quite possible for Picard to be the 1st Officer of the smallish Stargazer even when holding Lieutenant rank. Even the captain may have been a mere Commander. Of course, Picard eventually captained the ship while wearing four pips (and Jack Crusher, who may or may not have been his XO, had 2.5 pips), but that was only in 2354.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I think it's been said on screen that (Tapestry) that Picard took command when the captain was killed. I think it was also said that Picard was the conn officer. I'll have to go back and re-read the encyclopedia entry to see exactly what it says and then compare with the eps.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Bryce, I think the line where it was suggested that the Klingons joined the Federation was just a REALLY stupid throw away bit of speech.

No offence to you

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"Remeber, if there is a nuclear explosion, be sure to close your windows as the massive heat could cause objects within your home to catch fire".

Wise, wise words.

Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :

Picard was a ambassodarial "desk jockey" before he got the Enterprise

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"...that degenerative honky."
- Hermes
refering to fry in
Futurama