Basically:

A new director - JF is good, but Insurrection looked flat and dull... The sets looked just so... underlit and dull and we saw NOTHING of the Bridge - it actually looked quite disgusting... plain boring - lights dull - hardly any unique views of the Bridge or Engineering - except to close in on Riker or the Trill officer - nothin like First Contact - the bridge - and the whole ship in First contact seemed - futuristic and wonderous - yet the Bridge in Insurrection - seemed like just another room - with the light on.

They have to can Lt. Daniels as the Security/Tac officer - he is COMPLETELY boring - even more boring that Lt. George Primmin from DS9's "Move Along Home".

We need a new alien in there I think. The Trill officer again was BORING! The Joystick HAS to never appear on screen EVER again... errgh. Please fix up the departments sitting at the Conn and Ops.

Effects - the company who did the Effects in Insurrection - did a CRAP job. The Enterprise looked dinky and dull. The Atmospheric ship flights looked horribly matted... i.e. the drones and the Son'a ships. etc.

The CGI - basically looked lifeless and dull - I don't know if it was too RED being in the Briar patch - but it just didn't look as 'epic' as effects for past movies had. The Enterprise is a Big ship - it shouldn't be dipping all over the place and being thrown about like a smaller ship would.

Trek effects have been pretty static and dull in the last 3 movies. The Undiscovered Country had beautiful ship shots... Even "Galaxy Quest" had better ship effects than Insurrection. Maybe its CGI - it's not up to scratch yet? In First Contact and Insurrection - we never had any beautiful sweeping shots - that lasted for too long. Even the first appearance of the Enterprise E was too quick. Its as if they don't want you to get a focus on the ship to quickly - which is frustrating.

There has to be a good balance between soundstage and on location filming - Insurrection just had TOO much - out door stuff... First Contact probably did have a nice balance.

What is with the Data/Picard vs. The rest? Have some more character pairings - like good ole TNG.

The Soundtrack - Jerry Goldsmith did a fantastic job with First Contact - Insurrection though was just a rehash - a poor rehash. The soundtrack is uninspiring and tinny - and what is with all that synth!?! Its like his instrument du jour! We need a fresh perspective on the Soundtrack - and there are a lot of great composers out there.

Over all the next TNG movie has to look... like it did in the earlier movies and First Contact - futuristic sharp - fresh and wonderous - not slow, washed out and pedestrian.

You wanted to DREAM about being in space after seeing this film... not think - it could be a film set anywhere and in any situation. It has to provoke the mind to think of Trek as having a 'grand scheme' of exploration? of strange new worlds? of the 24th century? of WONDER... not cheap and nasty, looks, laughs and soundtracks.

Andrew

P.S. one thing i'll give Insurrection - was its powerful sound effects - some of those weapons firing - sounded like they'd rip you to shreds.

Andrew

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
 

The CGI: I agree, there weren't a lot of visual shots of the Enterprise-E, I never got a good look at it in FC.. had to wait till the 3rd Encyclopedia came before I could. As far as the CGI production goes, who did the CGI's of ships on Babylon 5? Personally I think they did a great job. Sure you could look at them today and say it could be better, but at the time it was made it was still fairly new.

Picard and Data: True... why is it that the last 3 TNG movies are about Picard and Data? If this is the last TNG movie, why the rumors on killing Data? Spiner says he's too old to play Data, but if after this there aren't going to be anymore movies it seems pointless to kill him off.

------------------
Sheridan: "Dammit, what do you want? What do you want from me?"
Kosh: "Never ask that question."
Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!

 

Andrew

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
 

Same with the Trill officer, needs to get fleshed out. Course, I wouldn't mind seeing Lt. Nog assigned as Ops Officer or Helm Officer for the next flick.

Actually, I'd really like to see Riker get his own ship next movie, akin to Sulu and the Excelsior in Trek 6. Get him LaForge as XO, and put Nog on the Enterprise as Chief Engineer. Maybe. I dunno. Just a thought.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

However you are totally right on the lighting. During the series, the bridge was bright as day (along with Generations). During a red alert, the lights didn't just go out with the eerie red glow. If it did, it would probably hinder the sight of a lot of people. First contact was better on the lighting than Insurrection, with the lights obviously dimming because of the transfer of control. Insurrection, at least on board the Enterprise, seemed more like something out of a Batman movie (dark).

At least that's my opinion.

------------------
"Oh please. I'm wet, I'm naked. And you think this is some plot to take over the world as a wet monkey in my BIRTHDAY SUIT!"

Mojo Jojo, The Powerpuff Girls

Saiyanman Benjita's Dragonball Page

There is someone tapping his foot on the computer behind me. I may have to go and kill the annoying little prick.

------------------
"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 

Actually, the Enterprise could be transporting Ambassador Worf to or from Quo'nos, or to a meeting near the RNZ, which would explain it fairly well. But, erm, wouldn't Worf outrank Picard?

"Worf, take Tactical!"
"No, you take it, I outrank you! Hah!"
"Grrr..."

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

About the Insurrection lighting/mood I don't think it was so much dark as being flat... boring... monochrome... there was no contrast... the browns errrgh... I mean the E-D had browns but it was interesting - the sets in Insurrection didn't look crisp and 'futuristic' they looked old and dull... go rewatch it...

Does anyone else think that Jerry Goldsmith's score was just rehashed... nothingness? Syth-y crap!?!

Hmmm and that Bak'u theme was just excruciating - and if I hear that "Klingon Theme" again! ARRRRRRRRRGH!

Andrew

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
 

Worf wouldn't outrank Picard. Ambassadors don't have a military rank, they are just considered honored dignitaries.

------------------
"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

As for your synth whining, FC used more synth units, loops and samples than Insurrection. Read the orchestral arrangement plan for both movies.

------------------
"...screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" - Omega.

Irony ensues.

Free Jeff K

 

Apparently, according to the John Logan interview on startrek.com, much of the new movie will take place in space, not on planet surfaces. That would imply better shots of the Enterprise and other ships than before.

------------------
Star Trek: Legacy

------------------
"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001
 

Insurrection did have an overall dullness to it - the scenario, the sets, the "humour", the effects, the music, all seemed lacking. To me, Generations was flawed but it seemed like a much better attempt at the time.

When it comes down to it, I really don't care whether or not the next movie is the last or not. What I do care about is that the last movie should kick ass and end the franchise with a bang, not a wimper.

------------------
"Life's too short to be pissed off all the time." (Danny Vinyard, American History X)
Dax's Ships of Star Trek

[This message has been edited by Dax (edited February 10, 2001).]
 

OK, even if FC did have more Synths... not that there is anything wrong with them, Insurrection used them poorly... If you listen to a lot of Jerry's stuff lately - you'll recognise him in an instant with that "action synth" beeh beeh beeh beeh - jugging along...

Then there is the "beautiful themes" FC had them, and The Final Frontier was... really lovely - but the whole Bak'u theme - was just so... boring - soap operish - kiddy - sickly... Go to the Data under the water for a good example.

There was no real identifable theme to Insurrection as there had been to First Contact. I was grabbed by the ears and held to attention by the beautiful intro theme in First Contact. Insurrection was just... nothing.

As for rehashes... Insurrection soundtrack sounded like an add on for First Contact... a weaker one at that. There was nothing new and fresh. It was quite pedestrian.

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
 

It was such an insult to the fans and the people watching the movie... it seemed to imply that they needed some in your face way of showing that Riker was "taking control"... and they use a friggin joystick. It looked like something you could find in the "cheap bin" at your local computer store.

It was VERY 20th century - when most things techy in Trek - are new and innovative!

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
 

$

$

$

$

$

$

Appearantly the designers of the Sovereign class were not the only ones who thought of using a joystick for control. Tom Paris used two on the rebuilt Delta Flyer...

$

$

$

$

$

$
WARNING: SPOILER ABOVE!

------------------
Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

 

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram
 

I'm all for giving Riker his own ship. Give him LaForge as his XO. This crew has been together for how long? It's about time TPTB showed them moving on, taking new assignments. Either that, or promote Picard, and give Riker the Enterprise ...

Admiral Jean-Luc Picard could come aboard the Enterprise on a supervisory role during a crucial mission.

Ambassador Worf is also aboard, to act for Federation diplomatic interests in this particular mission. His character will not be taking over the role of chief of security, as Worf has moved BEYOND just working tactical ... it's time to let Worf grow.

Captain William T. Riker has commanded the Enterprise for close to two years now, shortly after the Bak'u incident, when Picard accepted a promotion to Admiral.

Commander Data is the Enterprise's Executive Officer, who is considering leaving Starfleet. At the beginning of the film, we learn he has recieved an offer to teach at Oxford University on Earth.

Commander Geordi LaForge is still Chief Engineer aboard the Enterprise, but he has been offered an Executive Officer post on another starship (or two or three), and is considering them.

Lt. Daniels is still chief of security. Flesh him out a bit, see more interaction. He's part of the Enterprise's senior staff now, and TPTB need to treat him like it. Perhaps establish that he was Worf's assistant aboard the Enterprise-D ...

Deanna Troi is still aboard, of course, perhaps working on a research project about people's interaction over so many years together.

Dr. Crusher is also aboard, although she has been considering transfering to a dedicated medical starshipk, which has been offered to her.

Ogawa is back, now a regular doctor (she was at Starfleet Medical during Insurrection).

Lt. Nog (from DS9) is aboard the Enterprise as well -- he's the new Ops officer now that Data is XO. He keeps in regular contact with Chief O'Brien, which can be illustrated by having a quick comment to Riker, "the Chief sends his wishes", etc.

By the end of the movie, Picard returns to Starfleet Command, Worf goes back to the Federation Embassy on Earth (where eventually he becomes a Klingon governor, per All Good Things), Data accepts the teaching position (again, All Good Things). LaForge remains on the Enterprise as Executive Officer (which leads to his taking command of the Challenger), Dr. Crusher transferes to the USS Pasteur, the medical ship (again, All Good Things), leaving Ogawa as CMO of the Enterprise (akin to Future Imperfect), and Nog gets transfered down to Engineering as Chief Engineer (now that LaForge is XO). Daniels stays as CSO. Troi and Riker's relationship continues, possibly even to a marriage.

All in all, it would mark an appropriate end to the TNG franchise. The characters move on their own seperate paths, yet we know that the Enterprise continues her ongoing mission, with Capt. Riker and XO LaForge guiding her.

That's how I think it should end.

Just for comparison:

The Original Command Staff

Jean-Luc Picard -- Captain, Commanding Officer
William T. Riker -- Commander, Executive Officer
Data -- Lt. Commander, Operations and Second Officer
Tasha Yar -- Lt, Chief of Security
Geordi LaForge -- Lt (jg), Helmsman
Worf -- Lt (jg), Bridge Officer
Beverly Crusher -- Commander, Chief Medical Officer
Deanna Troi -- Lt. Commander, Ship's Counselor

The Ending Command Staff

William T. Riker -- Captain, Commanding Officer
Geordi LaForge -- Commander, Executive Officer
Daniels -- Lt, Chief of Security
Nog -- Lt, Chief Engineering Officer
Alyssa Ogawa -- Lt. Commander, Chief Medical Officer
Deanna Troi -- Commander, Ship's Counselor

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing another movie with the above crewmembers. Bring in some fresh blood, shake things up a bit. Maybe mix in Harry Kim (assuming VOY has returned by then). I think that could work quite well ...

Let me finish by saying, I really like the character of Nog. I think it would be a shame to ignore him with the end of DS9, and I think he'd make a great addition to the crew of the Starship Enterprise. Hmmm ...

Then, if they decided to do another Trek: TNG film with this new cast of old and new and other Treks, assuming VOY has returned by this point, they could even bring a newly promoted Lt. Harry Kim aboard as Operations Manager.

I like it. I really do. I really think this could bode well.

Captain William T. Riker!
Commander Geordi LaForge as the Executive Officer!
Lt. Nog, as the Ferengi Chief of Engineering!
Lt. Daniels as the Chief of Security!
Lt. Harry Kim as the Operations Officer!
Allysa Ogawa as the Doctor!
Deanna Troi as the Shrink!

=)

Whatcha think?

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 10, 2001).]
 

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

------------------
Disclaimer:
"All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities."
- `OverTheEdge'
 

------------------
My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 

to the Trill - mentioning a host... or someone mentioning something she does that is controversial... just in passing...

Nice little bits here and there... there is such a rich tapestry of Trek to pull from...

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
 

------------------
"Lately I've noticed that everyone seems to trust me. It's really quite unnerving. I'm still trying to get used to it."
- Garak, "Empok Nor"

 

Yeah, Omega, that's what I was thinking. We find out Picard got promoted just after the whole Bak'u thing, partially to help recover from Dougherty's action, but also due to losses from the Dominion War. This way, Patrick Stewart gets his way off the films (if he wants), and the character doesn't get killed.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

Does anyone else find it rather incredible that this group of officers would stick with each other for this long? Poor Data has been a lieutenant commander for what -- 14 years? And how many commands has Riker passed?

I think it's rather unrealistic of TPTB to keep these characters together. By the end of the next film (even if it is the last TNG film), we should see the characters moving on, some of the original characters remaining aboard the Enterprise, and others moving on to new assignments and new challenges.

VOY pretty clearly established that Geordi LaForge would probably be commanding a starship in the not-so-distant future. The logical evolution for this is that he will follow up his assignment as Chief Engineering Officer aboard the Enterprise-E with a tour of duty as Executive Officer aboard any number of ships (preferably the Enterprise) for a number of years, and no offense -- but this should start happening pretty soon.

All Good Things can't be looked on for what will actually happen to the characters 25 years down the line from TNG, of course ... the loss of the Enterprise-D is proof enough of this, yet it's not hard to make the argument that the characters will drift in the same directions regardless or not of the loss of one starship (so it's a good bet Geordi might wind up married to Leanna Brahms).

IIRC, Picard was a Federation diplomat sometime after leaving Starfleet. I don't know if the marriage to Dr. Crusher will work out, but I don't see why it wouldn't. I would imagine that if Picard didn't take a promotion to Admiral, he might accept a nomination as a Federation Ambassador or Diplomat to help bring new worlds into the Federation (something he seemed to already be doing in Insurrection).

Worf's future was as a Klingon governor. I don't know if this will happen or not, but as the Federation Ambassador to Quo'nos, TPTB have opportunities to take the character in interesting new directions. He's no longer just the "Klingon chief of security", he's a major figure within the UFP, and I find it rather hard to believe he'd keep manning the Tac post EVERY SINGLE time he's back aboard the Enterprise.

Data has spent nearly his entire existance in Starfleet. Tuvok took a leave of absense from Starfleet, it's not inconceivable for Data to do the same and "retire" for as long as he wants before returning to duty. Why would the loss of the Enterprise-D change his decision to teach at Oxford?

I really don't know what to say about Deanna Troi. She's always been rather ignored on TNG, and she was long since dead in All Good Things. Perhaps she and Riker married. Perhaps they didn't. Who knows?

William T. Riker. Remarkably ambitious officer. He turned down a command to take the XO post on the Enterprise, remember? This is a guy that graduated in the same class as Geordi LaForge (who was a Lt jg. during the first season) and Chakotay (according to the Chronology, anyway). I find it almost impossible to believe he's still willing to stick around as XO ... c'mon! Okay, for seven or eight years perhaps "being the flagship's XO" would be appealing, but I would imagine he'd be thirsty for a challenge. If he's still XO by the end of Trek X and not CO of Enterprise or another starship, I'd be dissapointed. Let me also say that Will Riker is a great character, and I think he'd make a great Enterprise Captain.

PLEASE!!! Powers that be -- let these characters move on and grow.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

Point is ... Stewart and Spiner more than likely don't want to come back for another flick after X. Might as well make it look believable.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

In fact, the only times I've heard that the two S's won't do anymore is in offhand comments. "Stewart does them on a whim", "Spiner hates Trek and wants death". And then, OTOH, you hear "Stewart wants Rick Berman's job!" "Spiner kills Brannon Braga!"

At the very least, Stewart and Spiner have a lot of input into the films. Which shows some self-interest, and possibly a desire to actually do good work. If it was just a paycheque to them, they wouldn't care.

Also, promoting the officers because, logically, they should have been (because, after all, everyone here is an expert on the 24th century promotion system), is stupid. You promote them for story reasons. Kirk was promoted to Admiral, but they used it well. Him forcing command back of the Enterprise to show his obsession, and also to highlight the fact that he was getting old (TWOK wouldn't have worked half as well if the crew were, say, in the state they were in ST:V).

As I look at it though, there's no good reason to promote anyone. If they did Picard, how would they make it different from Kirk's story, for instance.

If you want Trek world answers:

Why is everyone so desperate for these characters to get promotions anyway? If the past ten years have shown anything, it's that the characters love doing what they do. Riker never accepted a promotion because he's "happy". He loves the Enterprise family, like Kirk loved the Enterprise. Picard too, is happy. Sure, the Enterprise isn't an obsession to him like it was to Kirk, but he's got no pressing need to leave. Same for the others. They all love their jobs, and after a decade of saving the universe, Starfleet isn't going to make them move if they don't want to.

Anyway, if Star Trek's shown one other thing, it's that ensign's should try and get promotion as soon as possible, and captain's should avoid promotion for as long as they can.

Finally, regarding the extra's. They barely have enough time to give the regulars character development. You want them to work on extra's too? And how is saying "Oh, Mr fish here worked on the Hood" character development? It's useless background information for fanboys, in the same way that, in a regular show, off handidly saying "Mr Lick here uses to work for the LAPD before transferring". It's tossing the anoraks a bone, hoping they'll shut up.

------------------
"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 

Nice

You make some very good points. But you seem to ignore that VOY establishes that Geordi LaForge gets a starship command, and All Good Things showed a future in which the senior staff had split up. It will occur, and if Trek X is to be the final Next Gen flick, I don't see why we can't end with it on that note -- the crew moving on to new assignments and challenges (Geordi for one needs to go be an Executive Officer so he can get a starship command).

As for Lt. Daniels, he's a member of the Enterprise-E's command staff. He's the Chief Security Officer, and he should at least be treated like a senior officer instead of a nameless supernumery. There's a brief scene in Insurrection, when Picard demands to know why Worf overslept, where you kind of get a hint of that. More of that is needed.

DS9 didn't end with the cast together. Kira, Bashir, Ezri, Nog and Quark stay on the station, Worf is the new Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, O'Brien is off to teach at the Academy, Odo returned to his people. That's what I'm advocating. That's all.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 13, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 13, 2001).]
 

And how far into the future was Geordi commanding the Challenger? If we assume he had just recently gotten command at that point, and if it's far enough away, he needn't be promoted just yet for it to still make sense.

------------------
My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 

Look at Worf, he's already taken steps in the direction of becoming a Klingon political figure. Even though he may not become a washed up Klingon governor, it's a good bet he will become a fixture within the Klingon political community (even as a Federation ambassador).

As I believe I said, AGT shouldn't be looked on as definitive as what the characters will be doing in the future timeline, but as a guide to how they might very well find themselves.

As for Geordi, I don't know how far into the future his command of the Challenger was. I find it rather unlikely that Geordi would get a Galaxy-Class as his first command tho, and as much as I like LaForge (my favorite TNG character), he doesn't seem like the kind of captain to get a Galaxy- or Sovereign- as his first command (unlike Riker), so I think Geordi would have to earn that command either by commanding a smaller starship, or excelling at being an XO (keep in mind, LaForge and Riker graduated the Academy the same year -- yet when assigned to the Enterprise, LaForge was a j.g. lieutenant and Riker just promoted to full Commander).

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

But it can be argued that with Martok leading the Klingon Empire, he will seek to build the relationship with Starfleet and the UFP, and thus Worf will become a figure of political power within the Empire ... thus, a Klingon political figure.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

------------------
My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 

------------------
"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001

 

Timo Saloniemi
 

I can see Riker getting command of a Galaxy-class ship, and Geordi becoming his First Officer. Then Riker leaves (for whatever reason), and Geordi stays behind as Captain. Eight years of Galaxy-experience must count for something.

I don't buy the idea though, that the characters are drawn towards the AGT future anyway. For one, the ending of AGT implys that Picard told everyone so that they could avoid that future. The fact that he joins them in the Poker game also implies that he's trying to change things, in small ways. He doesn't want them to drift apart.

Plus, Riker and Worf's hostility doesn't quite make sense now. Worf's been married, and is fairly obviously over Troi. Riker and Troi are now dating (most likely), and Insurrection gave no indication that Worf cared.

Plus, the future-uniforms don't quite fit into the pattern established by the FC uniforms. (I know that's picky, but hey).

Besides, Riker was in charge of a Starbase, and he can't be, because in the future, ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US!

------------------
"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 

And the AGT uniforms were also used in "The Visitor". I think they make sense. In forty years or so, SF could easily decide to go for that "retro-2260s" look...

------------------
My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 

So...The uni's in "The Visitor" and "AGT" will come into use unless Sisko being alive after the episode instead of getting trapped in subspace like he did during the ep somehow effects Starfleet's uniform choice. Now, the Dominion war didn't seem to have happened in the "Visitor" future, so maybe the war influenced Starfleet in a more military direction and look. This will alter the uniforms used after the FC style...

Geordi's command WILL happen unless Voyager returning instead of crashing on the planet somehow effects Geordi's career, which I can't see how it would. Maybe Geordi knew Chakotay and was given command just to hunt him and Kim down... It was about 15 years in the future by the way, IIRC.

------------------
"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Here's a question no-one ever asks: why so many uniform changes anyway?

------------------
"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001

 

Well every thing that happens differently on Star Trek contains BILLIONS of butterflies, any one of which could have unforseen consequences.

Someone on the E-D doesn't get a transfer when they might have, later, they then don't get promoted to an admiral's staff, and don't happen to be passing outside the office when he has a cold, and aren't there to say 'bless you' when the admiral sneezes, the admiral gets a smidgen grumpier, and his ulcer acts up, he misses a meeting vote, and the uniforms don't change.

The future is totally 'un-set,' so speculating why various futures don't gel is silly.

Of course, it could also be that the futures MUST come to pass, just not in the universe WE perceive. Any deviation from that time line creates another 'mirror' universe, a la "Paralells."

------------------
"My knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, by, oh, about a BILLION times!" -- Q

My argument was just that some things changed, we don't know that the cast couldn't have been drawn to those future careers by other motives.

Look at Worf. In All Good Things, he's a Klingon Governor. At the end of DS9, he's Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. Where he will be a few years down the line? He could very well decide to run for office within the Klingon Empire -- who knows? He's already in the same general area as he was in AGT.

If this will be the last TNG film, I want them to break up the static a little bit. I want to see the crew moving on. I don't want to think off them all with stagnated careers flying around on the Enterprise, no thanks, not for me ...

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

Or he could well be shot on the floor of the High Council, with Alexander watching...

Really, someone ought to make a list of these future timelines we've seen.

------------------
Disclaimer:
"All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities."
- `OverTheEdge'
 

Now a UFP political career, that I could see. Possibly.

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

But, again, you're not thinking in 24th century terms. They are doing what they love doing. That's not having a "stagnant" career. That's having an "enjoyable" career. And if they can carry on doing, more power to them. Besides, it's not like they are desperate for promotions, so that they can get a better retirement package anyway.

------------------
"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 

------------------
Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Studios � The United Federation Uplink �
------------------
Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"