Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Date of FC / Second Borg Invasion

This is topic Date of FC / Second Borg Invasion in forum General Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/500.html

Posted by Antagonist (Member # 484) on :

I'm trying to figure out the date of the second Borg invasion, my instincts tell me 2374, but I don't know if that is correct. Come to think of it, a link to a canonical timeline, if you could provide one, would be great.
Thanks.

------------------
Beverly: "I have a patient here who wishes to see you, captain.
Picard: "Welcome aboard the Enterprise-E, Mr. Worf.
Worf: "Thank you sir. The Defiant?"
Picard: "Adrift, but salvagable."
Riker: "Tough little ship."
Worf: "Little? It's 170 meters long."
Riker: "Don't be rediculous, Worf, everybody knows, after careful study of certain screencaps, that its under 120 meters long."
Worf: "I suppose now you'll tell me it is a Valiant Class vessel?"

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

Picard's log at the beginning of the movie gave a stardate of 50893.5. Unfortunately, that puts the movie several weeks or months after DS9's "In Purgatory's Shadow" which alludes to certain events in the movie.

It definitely took place in 2373. Probably somewhere between stardate 50400 and 50550. That's based on the first stardate given after "Rapture" when the FC-era uniforms appeared, and just before the Dominion invasion.

------------------
You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Are you sure about that? I can't recall a stardate being given for "In Purgatory's Shadow," though admittedly it's been awhile. The encyclopedia doesn't have one listed. Perhaps it was a different episode?

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

IPS was DEFINATELY AIRED after First Contact...

I don't think IPS *was* given a Stardate...

------------------
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I think I see the problem.

The episode before "Purgatory..." was "For The Uniform," with a stardate of 50485.2

The episode after, "By Inferno's Light", takes place on 50564.2

So there is indeed some inconsistancy. But that's hardly new where stardates are concerned.

------------------
I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

Sorry, I got "Purgatory" and "Inferno" mixed up. It's all Catholic punishment philosophy anyway, so what's the difference?

------------------
You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Wasn't the first episode aired after FC, er, the first one with the new uniforms? I remember that Paramount wanted it to work out that way, so that the new uniforms would premiere in the movie (unlike the new badge designed for Generations, which premiered on DS9).

I can't for the life of me remember which episode it was though. There were only a couple before "In Pugatory's Shadow". "For the Uniform", and that one with the baby changling puddle thingy.

------------------
"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The new Uni's made their series premier in "Rapture" when Sisko started having visions.

Bashir looked at Sisko and said "Does my uniform look any brighter?" I remember thinking "Is that the only reference they're going to make to the new uniforms?"

------------------
"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

A few eps later, Sisko was wearing that vest that Picard had worn in the movie, too.

The scariest tidbit, though, was that the real Bashir was still wearing the old uniform in "In Purgatory's Shadow," meaning that he'd been impersonated by the Changeling for at least four episodes... and performed brain surgery on Captain Sisko! (Obviously this wasn't well-planned either.)

------------------
You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Oh, not that old chestnut again. It's a red herring. I suggest you go look at this discussion from TNO. It's a lot easier than me C'n'P'ing the text here, especially as my arguments are in two bits. But suffice to say that a Changeling did NOT perform brain surgery on
Sisko.

------------------
"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I thought the vest carry-over was cool! In "Rocks and Shoals" Sisko mentioned something about the injured Jadzia's "vest and boots" taking a little longer to dry. Maybe some of the lower ranking officers have those vests too.

*pictures Terry Farrell in one of those vests*

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Maybe they ment "vest" in the British sense of the word? We've seen that other crewmembers have undershirts, if she had one with no sleaves, it would count as a "vest".

Still, I can see it being the Bashir Changling in the Begotten. I can buy the "C-Bashir just let the baby changling die." I dount he knew that it would "cure" Odo, and since it happened pretty much instantly, he couldn't do anything about it anyway.

I'd read that there was suppossed to be a scene with the Bashir-Changling in "For the Uniform", the episode immedietly before Purgatory, but it was cut. It might explain why Bashir wasn't in FtU.

------------------
"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The Bashir uniform bit requires a bit of imagination to sort out in any case. In what sort of situation did the real Bashir get kidnapped? Didn't he explicitly say they got him while he was asleep?

We know the doc's a workaholic who sometimes sleeps in his uniform, but he doesn't do that ALL the time. Or does he? He was in uniform when the Wadi kidnapped him from his bed in "Move Along Home". Hmm... So were Dax and Sisko. And it's unlikely the Wadi gave them those uniforms, since they had only seen our heroes in dress uniforms previously (save for Bashir).

In some armies a single garment is used for multiple roles - here in Finland, a battlefield camo uniform begins its life as a garrison duty (or even leave/"dress") uniform, and ends it as oily coveralls for mechanics. Did Starfleet relegate its old uniforms into pajamas?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I stand by my date analysis, but admit it's hard to explain why they gave him a uniform at all, let alone one that was now obsolete.

The best explanation I've come up with is that they prepared in advance to kidnap this Starfleet officer, and since they could hardly leave him in his pyjamas (or worse, if he slept naked - why, the poor Jem'Hadar would be warped for life), they prepared some clothes for him. And in order to know these clothes would fit, they simply used the existing replicator pattern for his uniform. Unfortunately in the meantime the directive changing uniform styles reached DS9 - whereas it didn't seem to have reached the Admiral in "The Begotten" or his staff (OR a guy in the background of "ToTP," a whole year and a half later!).

Either that, or when he woke up in his pyjamas they gave him the chance to replicate a uniform, using perhaps a pattern taken from all those Federation vessels that disappeared in the Gamma Quadrant - however, they didn't have the new pattern, since all those ships (like the Sarajevo etc.) were destroyed prior to the uniform change.

This second idea, which I just had, actually makes a lot more sense. They nabbed him, didn't take any of his clothes, and only had old-style ones to give him. Perfect. 8)

------------------
"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

"Maybe they ment "vest" in the British sense of the word?"

Well, thank goodness they didn't say "vest and pants", then...

------------------
My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.

Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :

"The Enterprise-E has been in space for over a year now"

The Ent-E was launched late 2371, so im assuming First Contact took place in 2372 (until they went back to 2063)

------------------
Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Studios � The United Federation Uplink �
------------------
Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

No, the E-E was launched at stardate 49827.5. That's late 2372.

------------------
"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited February 16, 2001).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

And they said the ship was out "for almost a year now". So that means they're in late 2373...

------------------
Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited February 16, 2001).]

Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :

I don't know what the hell I was doing when I made that post. I have the cuttaway on my wall, and even it says October 2372.

So FC was in 2373.

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

So because her underwear wasn't dry yet, she actually went commando for most of that ep? 8)

------------------
"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001