I made the screenshots and page 2 after your posting.I'd like to have screenshots of Star Trek: The Motion Picture,Star Trek: The Voyage Home and Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country.
I especially want shots of respectively the Rec Deck, UFP Counsel and Khitomer Conference scenes.
I need pictures of all those aliens!!
Can anyone help me???
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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
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Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited April 02, 2001).]
Are those blue guys... Bolians!?! They're definately not Andorians... Could they be those Troyians?
Are those Yellow people... updated versions of Arcturian Clones??
Does anyone have screen caps of the 'fight scene' on Rurapenthe... supposedly we get to see some Betelgueseans like from TMP...
Also, is that a smiling Vulcan in the last picture? The Romulan Ambassador Nunclas is being taken away - maybe its another Romulan...
I like how they got the check pattern into the Ambassador's clothes...
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Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited April 01, 2001).]
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
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"Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. � Believe in nothing..."
-Tool, �nima
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Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
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Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.
2nd Rurapenthe page, last pic - to Kirk's left, is that a Tellarite!?!
Also, that could be a Yridian, if we wanted it to be, because the makeup would have (well physiological features would have) changed over 100 years until their appearences in TNG.
Rurapenthe, 2nd page, 3rd image... what IS that creature directly behind Kirk!?! It looks reptilian... could it be a TOS movie version of the Gorn...
I wonder how the Klingons and the Gorn get on?
I wonder how the Gorn and the Cardassians get on - they're both sort of reptilian... does anyone think that the Cardassians are evolutionary more advanced than the Gorn?
What about Saurians... presumably they get on well with 'mammalian' species...
Maybe if the Dino-Saurians from Earth never left, then Earth might have ended up like the Gorn worlds...
I wonder if there are any sort of special relations between the reptilian worlds??
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Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited April 02, 2001).]
The Klingon and UFP delegations also seem to feature sash-less personnel, mainly from the respective militaries (but Sarek is also sashless). The Romulans all seem to be sashed, although that of Ambassador Nanclus is far more decorative than those of the rest of the troupe.
Also note the stalls for the delegations are color-coded accordingly... yet there are two shades of blue in the stalls, even though only one dark shade in the sashes. What does this signify? Most of the humans (including all the SF-uniformed ones) sit in the dark blue stall, while the assorted aliens sit in the light blue stalls. Is there a division to "lower- and higher-ranking" members in the UFP?
Also, there are green sashes worn by human-looking people, although the pictures do not reveal a green stall for them. Perhaps the stall is to the left of the Klingons - note the standards on the back wall, with red-plus-Klingon-symbol behind the Klingon delegation, and a yellow one behind the Romulans, plus the familiar UFP logo behind the dark blue stalls. Perhaps the green standard to the left means the green delegation sits there, just outside our view? (Who are these green folks, and why do they look so humanlike?)
It would be interesting to see what that yellow standard really looks like. Does it have the Romulan bird of prey clutching the twin worlds? Or does it show some earlier logo for the Star Empire? The Klingon logo here is all black in "modern" style, in contrast to the old tricolor TOS logo - is there a significance to the coloration? Was the Romulan logo also colored differently back then?
Did anybody spot other sash colors apart from red, yellow, dark blue and green?
The flags on the poles are also interesting. They are probably not grouped to match the delegations, because there is such striking similarity in patterns between flags standing in UFP, Romulan and Klingon stalls. What might they represent? They probably aren't purely decorative, since there is odd variation to the patterns - not all of them are simply five-striped, but some have more complex shapes and perhaps imagery to them.
Timo Saloniemi
Picture 7 shows the green delegation and IMO their symbol.
Pictures 8 & 10 show the Romulan BoP
Picture 9 shows the green stall.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited April 02, 2001).]
Hmm. Yes, agreed that the green wall symbol must be for the green delegation - its mounting is identical to those of the Klingon, UFP and Romulan ones. An interesting symbol. Have we seen it elsewhere? ("Paradise Syndome"? Are these transplanted humans who don't like the idea of rejoining Earth's dominion? Why are they so important - are they militarily strong?)
It's really weird to see Sarek sharing the pulpit with Nanclus. Perhaps this was because Sarek was considered a leading diplomat behind the meeting instead of merely a UFP representative, and because Romulans were the hosts?
Romulans being the hosts would seem to be supported by the fact that their stalls were centrally located, and that there was only the Romulan banner prominently displayed on the exterior of the meeting hall above the main doors. If Khitomer was a Romulan instead of Klingon world at this time, it would also better match Azetbuhr's description of it as a "neutral" location.
One mystery remains: are those UFP logos on all the semicircular pulpit covers? Why are these logos applied on all those surfaces, even the Klingon, Romulan and Green ones? Or does the image perhaps change according to the current speaker? (It failed to change when Azetbuhr spoke, though, IIRC)
Or is it just a coincidence that the Romulan building happens to be decorated with a blue circle and laurels?
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
Oops! I completely forgot to look through the "Khitomer 2" page!
I made the screenshots and page 2 after your posting.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
(Hihi, the one to the left of him looks like a teacher of mine )
My theory is that the Green ones are independent observers, or perhaps some press invited by the three powers.
The UFP logos all over the place could suggest that Khitomer Conference was hosted by the Federation, and that Khitomer is possibly more UFP territory than it is Klingon or Romulan.
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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
[This message has been edited by Prakesh (edited April 02, 2001).]
Who's the golden-faced individual with the blue sash behind the Starfleet officers in the second, and is he the same dude that's behind Cartwright in the fourth?
I don't think say, because I think i can just make out a green sash on the homey behind Cartwright (who probably HAS a name, I just couldn't be arsed looking it up).
Ideas on the jack in the second, then?
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At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.
"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT!??!
Looks like a hairy lizard or a bug-eyed cat...!
Andrew, is that what you were on about re the Gorn? I don't think it is, if it is
if you is gettin' what I is sayin' a'i?
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At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.
"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"
quote:
I don't think say, because I think i can just make out a green sash on the homey behind Cartwright (who probably HAS a name, I just couldn't be arsed looking it up).
I don't think they're the same. The individual in #2 has a golden skin, the other in #4 has a orange/brown/yellow skin.
The guy in #4 wears a blue sash and I'm sure that his name wasn't mentioned.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited April 02, 2001).]
And I'll bet he didn't have a name - what I meant was that his species has been identified and named by the nerds out there that threaten to pervade all aspects of our lives, only to disrupt them with their nefarious plans which'll undoubtedly revolve around sperm banks, Type XX""DASEAWF)(*IIF phaser arrays, and HOT HAND SEXXOR. I'm sure turnips will get involved, what with the Non-Agression Pact between them and the Man Train obliging them to take action should Simon Sizer's Harbinger of Eclipses start throwing shapes. WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!
Don't mind that. I just started typing really really fast, and wasn't really paying attention to what I was typing.
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At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.
"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"
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Don't kill me, I'm charming!
BTW, the Green guys may have another symbol, too. What could be their banner can be seen in Khitomer 1.
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"Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. � Believe in nothing..."
-Tool, �nima
[This message has been edited by TSN (edited April 02, 2001).]
I doubt these all-human delegates really were just reporters. They had no recording gear evident, for one. And why so many, so inconveniently located for observation? And all human...
Unlike the other delegations, the Aurorans didn't seem to come in pairs (as the UFP races did) or in uniforms (as part of everybody else's delegations did). I can understand the Paramount desire to use as many simple humans as possible in the scene, but was there some deeper rationale to introducing this all-human faction?
All the Starfleeters here seem to be humans, which helps support this "Homo sapiens -only club" comment made earlier on. Were all the Aurorans humans for a similar reason? It shouldn't have been too difficult to insert just one or two alien-masked extras to the green stalls if the racial purity of the delegation wasn't intentional...
Timo Saloniemi
Reguarding the Green people... it'd have to be people that HAD to be a Khitomer for a purpose...
Maybe they were the Khitomer residents!?!
Maybe they were the Organians! They did stop the Klingons and the Feds from all out war... and they could be in their coporeal form at the moment...
or they could be just non-aligned observers...
ADDITION!
Look at the exterior shot of Khitomer... there is two huge-arsed pennants hanging off the building the one on the left is a light blue one - Federation I assume...
The one on the right... is ROMULAN!!!! Its fuzzy - but you can make out the Triangular shape and the two 'balls' of the twin homeworlds...
Another Addition!
look back on the first Khitomer page...
in 1. and 3. there is a yellow banner with an IDIC symbol...
then look in picture 2. Back, center there is a yellow banner with the ROMULAN logo on it... again that triangular/winged shape... we all know...
So are they trying to make out here that the Vulcans are NOT part of the Federation?
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Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited April 03, 2001).]
Here's one I prepared earlier :
First line of the President:
"The UFP welcomes you to Camp Khitomer"
Here's a theory more or less explaining Sarek's position and the RSE and UFP logos:
The UFP and the KE want to sign a treaty on neutral grounds: a Federation outpost (Camp Khitomer) is temporarily made official Romulan territory (much like Camp Zeist in the Netherlands, which was officialy Scottish territory during the Lockerbie process). Sarek makes the arrangements with the RSE (and gets a seat in Nanclus' group).
The Green party is possibly a group of indepentants, or some society we never heard of. BTW, their logo seems to be a black globe with a white star behind it and something *on* the globe as well.
Khitomer pic 12 (the top view):
In the lower right corner, are those two Zaranites? They never show up again.
Khitomer pic 2:
Is that a Capellan standing directly behind the Starfleet admiralty?
The man left-most of the dark blue bench seems to be copper-skinned...
There are only 3 known blue Federation races: Bolians, Andorians and Troyians. These *could* be Troyians. (Queen Amidala probably bought her hat in the same shop )
Are those two 'guards' behind the admiralty-stall the 'rocket-helmet' guys?
At the far left of this picture, there are green (or yellow? I'm colourblind) skinned people, with white hair. Have we seen something like that anywere else? (they look awkwardly familiar to me...)
Khitomer pic 4:
Could the two blue aliens be of the same race? If so, why would they be dressed differently (both in Star Trek universe and behind-the-scenes explanations)?
Khitomer pic 5:
That 'giant Hobbit' right of Scotty is definitely not a Tellarite. He is with the Romulans. Possibly a bodyguard type of guy. Anyway, he is not looking very interested
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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
In the 23rd century Khitomer is a Romulan planet. This would explain why the Romulans attacked Khitomer in the 24th century. Maybe they tried to reconquer it.
So the Romulans provided the planet, and the Federation was the organizer of the peace conference. As host the Federation furnished the conference room. Hence every stall has a UFP-logo.
A little bit disturbing are the big wall-symbols. Behind the green delegation this globe, the Klingon symbol behind the red stall, the UFP symbol behind the blue stalls, but the IDIC symbol behind the Romulan stall.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
quote:
142 Ext. Camp Khitomer, Romula - Day
vfx
The idyllic site of the Peace Coference. Lush green.
A huge building on the horizon from within which we can hear music. Outside, masses of people and flags....
(Matte Painting)
Romula?
quote:
142A Int. Camp Khitomer - Day
Inside huge #1 pod doors opening, revealing the Council chamber.
Very loud music as we follow the Federation Delegation (green), lead my Admiral Donald, into the room. Reverse on #2 pod doors opening, as Sarek leads the Vulcan Delegation (yellow) in as they take their places....
Oh my god. This would explain the IDIC and why Sarek sat in the yellow stall.
BTW: Nanclus' sash was part of his clothes. He wore it IIRC in the President's office too.
The "green" for Federation must be an error.
quote:
145 Int. Camp Khitomer conference site - Day
More of the opening ceremonies.
Camera pans to reveal pod #3 with the Klingon delegation (brown) lead by their ambassador and pod #4, Earth (green) delegation emerging and taking their places.....the Klingon and UFP Presidents, complete with advisers, retinues, entourages and attendants. Flags are everywhere....
Among them is Colonel Worf, Brigadier Kerla, Admiral Donald, the Munitions businessman, and a Klingon face we haven't seen before.....
The music thunders to a halt. The place looks like the UN security council + the Olympics. All color coded...
So the Aurorans are Terrans.
Well, I like this early version:
quote:
Lt. Valeris
Aft thrusters.....Kirk
(Overlaps)
Thank you, Lieutenant, one quarter impulse power......Lt. Valeris
(She turns to face him)
Captain, may I remind you that regulations specify thrusters only while in space dock?The crew, old and young, watch this exchange keenly.
Spock is poker faced.McCoy
(next to Chekov)
Uh, Jim....Kirk
You heard the order, Lieutenant.Lt. Valeris swivels away, rolling her eyes so Kirk can't see, and hits the panel....
The ship begins to rattle slightly, then the Enterprise screams out of the dock and exits through the just opening bay doors into outer space.
Kirk sits comfortably with a smile on his face
Kirk
(Continuing)
Lieutenant.....Lieutenant Valeris faces him.
Kirk
(Continuing)
I don't care if I am senile. If I sit in this chair and give the word, you jump!Spock watches.
Lt. Valeris
Aye, Sir.Kirk
Plot a course for Kronos, Lieutenant.Lt. Valeris
Kronos, Sir?Kirk
I'm still in the chair, Lieutenant!Lt. Valeris
Aye, Sir.
*lol*
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited April 03, 2001).]
(Or perhaps this is the Greenpeace delegation, making sure that no trees are harmed in the creation of the peace accords?)
If the Greens are Earthlings, then perhaps the Yellows are actually Vulcans, with Nanclus invited to join them for the duration of the meeting, but with the rest of the Romulans kept out? In that case, it would be a bit difficult to explain all those BoP logos, though. Unless those are originally Vulcan logos, simply appropriated by the Romulans later on - Vulcan could be a double planet, too, as fanfic has often stated. Sounds unlikely, though (the appropriation of the logo, not the twin planet hypothesis).
It is actually quite entertaining to think that Sarek might share more sympathies with Nanclus than with the Federation... But would he want to state that in such blatant terms?
Timo Saloniemi
Also there is the problem of the Smiling "Vulcan(s)" in some of those 'clapping' pictures... I presume they are Romulans... Maybe at Spock's (Sarek's in Spock's abscence) behest - a combined sitting of Romulan and Vulcan parties?? A prelude to Unification which actually aired before the Release of TUC.
No one likes my idea of the Green-sashed people being the Organians?
Also, there are many discrepencies between the 'early script' above and the 'filmed version' so I'd take that with a very small grain of salt... maybe just one molecule of NaCl...
In reply to: The 'hobbit'/'tellarite' -> he does look interested he's standing up looking at what is going on... He looks like the Tellarites from Star Trek: IV... which didn't look EXACTLY like the TOS Tellarites...
Also, I don't believe that the UFP part is 'indicative' of the complete members of the UFP... since, well there aren't even as many different races as the Star Trek: IV scene...
Can someone get some screen caps of that... like these above pics... There are some 'Vulcans' there I'd like to put forward as being a Romulan presence.
Also, I liked how they reused the Klingon Ambassador from Star Trek IV... Charles Shuck?? (The actor was also in "Muse" [VGR]
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Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
quote:
Well, remember that that was an early version of the script... clearly he thinks that Vulcans aren't part of the Federation, they most definately are.
Why? Because the Vulcans have their own delegation? Then Earth wouldn't be a Federation member too.
quote:
Also there is the problem of the Smiling "Vulcan(s)" in some of those 'clapping' pictures...
I'm not sure that she really was smiling.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
Lets ignore that early version... if gives us a nice look into the background though.
So here is what I would LIKE to think at the moment.
1. Federation - Blue, Klingons - Red.
2. Vulcans and Romulans sitting together!?! At the behest of Spock/Sarek - remember Spock met Pardek at Khitomer.
3. The other humans... could have been Organians in corporeal form, or the press or the actual people who lived on that planet...
also, why didn't we see any other 'well known' races from TOS there - well particularly the Andorians?
Maybe it was only UFP members that were from around the boarders of the Klingon/Federation and the Romulan/Federation boarders?
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Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
The Feds would probably be sending out some sort of a "security council" type delegation, with permanent and rotating members in it, UN style. A very formal affair, with two representatives from each culture. In addition, there would be some random observers from outside this security council, but not necessarily in the opening reception.
If the Feds sent only those races that bordered on the Klingons, they would probably risk having some of those conduct secret negotiations with the Klingons for "separate peace" or other special arrangements... A unified security council with "neutral" UFP races in it would be a more stabilizing influence and a better negotiation tool.
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
WHY did he specifically have separate groups for Vulcans and Humans out of the REST of the UFP delegation!?!
Maybe because the Humans are the most important Federation race and the Vulcans were responsible for the peace conference.
quote:
3. The other humans... could have been Organians in
corporeal form,
IIRC Uhura arrested one of the green people.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
quote:
Ra-Ghotarei
That's who? The UFP President?
(Is this the only Efrosian name we know?)
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"To all Harry-Fans: I meant no disrespect against Harry and have nothing against the stupid little creature. Thanks and enjoy the show."
Nimrod, 04-04-01.
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Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
The helmsman of the Saratoga in TVH was an Efrosian too. In the novelization from Vonda N. McIntyre the Saratoga science officer Chitirih-Ra-Dreii is a Deltan. This might be the source of the error, if Dillard thought that the Deltan science officer and the alien officer in TVH were the same person.
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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited April 05, 2001).]
Maybe she heard Valeris incorrectly!?! Maybe she thought it was Organian Ambassador Munklas 
I wonder who this person was supposed to be? If the 'green' person was human, could it have been a Federation member!?!
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Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
Timo Saloniemi
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"To all Harry-Fans: I meant no disrespect against Harry and have nothing against the stupid little creature. Thanks and enjoy the show."
Nimrod, 04-04-01.
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Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
Timo Saloniemi