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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,21,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:02 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I see something happening in Trek that really and truly worries me. I'm sure others have noticed it as well, but I'd like to bring it to a point.<p>There were all kinds of changes made from TOS in the later shows, but for the most part, the later shows were all fairly consistent within themselves. This was easily explained and accepted because there was a gap of at least a century between the two. So it wasn't too implausible to accept a recalibration of the Warp scale or the fact that Klingons and romulans looked slightly different then long ago. It was also acceptable that ship technology looked different and of course more advanced.<p>So for quite awhile it was assumed that prior to and during TOS things were one way, and sometime before TNG they were changed.<p>But now, with 'Enterprise' coming out, something disturbing is happening. The prequel show is apparently going to utilize more elements from the new era shows than from the old. So we'll probably have things like the newer Warp scale. And we'll definitely see Klingons with new style makeup.<p>What's my point? Well, put it this way: It would make at least some sense if Klingons were smooth-headed and then at some point in their history became rough, but it makes considerably less sense that they were rough for a long time, then smooth for a short time, and then rough again. <p>With things like this (and believe me, there are lots of other examples) we are isolating the TOS time period. We are making it sem as if this was just an isolated period of time where everything was different, instead of the way things alwys were before. We are sort of making it look like an oddball comared with the ohter series. We're making it look as if it didn't fit in with the rest of the picture. We're...forgive me for being melodramatic...<i>orphaning</i> it.<p>Take the ship from the Enterprise series. It comes a century before Kirk's ship, yet it almost looks to be of a more advanced design! As a matter of fact, it looks a lot like the modern Akira-class. WHile some think this is 'cool,' I think it causes TOS style ships to look as if they don't belong in their time period. Instead of seeing a more primitive Ancestor of the Enterprise, we're seeing what could easily pass for a Decendant. Now instead of being able to draw a design lineage from S.S. Ent to U.S.S. Ent all the wat finally to Akira, we draw one straight from S.S. Ent to Akira.<p>Do you see what I mean? Now we'll be forced to come up with countless explanations for why the 2200's were so out-of-sync compared with the other time periods shown... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MIB</b> <br /><small>Member # 426</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,21,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:08 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If these inconsitances keep up, I would probably have to consider TOS non-cannon except for the parts that were mentioned in the later series and movies. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,21,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:18 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> um...that was...a joke...right? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,22,1,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:01 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> TNG and DS9 have already established that Klingon heads went ridged->smooth->ridged. There's nothing wrong w/ ENT having ridged Klingons.<p>As for the warp scale, current information suggests that they are, in fact, using the old scale, not the new one.<p>As far as the ship goes, we haven't seen it yet. Just because it's somewhat <i>Akira</i>-shaped, that doesn't mean anything. We already have the <i>Daedalus</i> from that time period to be the ancestor of the later E's. After all, if every ship in the ENT time period looked like a precursor to the E-nil, where did designs like the <i>Akira</i> come from? Shouldn't they have ancestors, too?<p>[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: TSN ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,22,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Akira came from the Galaxy as evidenced by the saucer. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Siegfried</b> <br /><small>Member # 29</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,23,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I have to disagree with the original post entirely.<p>I honestly do not believe that The Original Series is being orphaned or made to be the odd-show-out. I think that there are going to be a lot of inconsistencies in comparing TOS to TNG, DS9, and Voyager because of the amount of stuff that wasn't nailed down in TOS. For about half the show, the producers (of which Roddenberry was one) couldn't decide between the series being 200 or 300 years into the future. Not having that set is definitely going to throw any sort of dating structure. What I see happening is that a lot of fans have made a lot of convaluted theories to explain things like the Enterprise's operating authority being UESPA and then changing to Starfleet or why Kirk told Khan he had been in stasis for 200 years when it was really 300. The fans who are coming up with theories like this are now getting defensive that the current producers are saying, "You know, here's something that was really inconsistent about TOS. It'd probably save a lot of confusion to just pretend that this one or two lines of dialog didn't happen." Thus, we've never seen mention of UESPA again, and we just accept that Khan was really in space for 300 years.<p>And it's hard to pass judgement on a ship that we have yet to see. Sure, TrekWeb and others are posting images of Pre-TOS style Akira's, but you gotta remember that those are not the design of the new ship! On Monday we'll see what the real designers have in store, but all we have right now are some fan's dreams based on a vague description. And on a tangent, it's entirely possible for there to have an Akira-ish ship in use just prior to the birth of the Federation. One of the earliest ships was the Daedalus class. About 200 years after the Daedalus was retired, the Olympic shows up as a modern version of it. At the end of the TOS Movie era, the Constellation began service. A hundred years after that, we have the Cheyenne following the same lineage. And of course there is the lineage of the Constitution to the Ambassador and the Excelsior to the Sovereign. By all means, it is possible for the modern Akira to have her roots in Earth's initial foray into interstellar travel.<p>I would add to the Klingon debate, but Tim's already hit the nail on the head. Kahless lived before any of the TOS Klingons, and he had a bumpy forehead and nose. In DS9 we got to see Kor, Koloth, and Kang who were originally TOS Klingons. They had the bumpy foreheads, too. So, as much as you think the theory makes little sense, it would seem to be the case that the Klingons were originally bumpy, then were smooth for some still unexplained reason, and then they went bumpy again with the smooth Klingons becoming bumpy again as well. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,0,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:18 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote>"The Akira came from the Galaxy as evidenced by the saucer."</blockquote><p>The <i>Akira</i> doesn't have a <i>Galaxy</i> saucer. And, if you're just talking about the fact that it's elliptical, then the <i>Galaxy</i> couldn't have come from the <i>Constitution</i>/<i>Excelsior</i>/<i>Ambassador</i> lineage, since they had round saucers.<p>Besides, the <i>Akira</i> is older than the <i>Galaxy</i>, as are the other ships that actually <i>do</i> use the <i>Galaxy</i> saucer. The <i>Galaxy</i> is the baby of its family... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>targetemployee</b> <br /><small>Member # 217</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,1,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:38 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As fans of the franchise, we are watching the development and reexamination of the history and ideas of the Star Trek universe. This process initiated with the parents of the X-generation in the 1960's who watched the first series. Then two decades later, their children-the X generation-saw the second series. At the end of the last century and beginning of the next century, the Y generation, children of the X generation, are watching the 3rd, 4th, and 5th series. Three generations are witnesses to this franchise's birth and growth. In that amount of time, there has been considerable change to Star Trek. Let's look at one case.<p><b>Zephram Cochrane</b><br /><i>Star Trek-baby boomers</i><br />In the first series, humanity had been exploring the galaxy for 2 hundred years and, as a consequence of their actions, ushered in a second Renaissance that brought in peace and harmony to Earth. This second Renaissance dawned when humanity was confronting a terrible nightmare-the dreams and desires of scientists who were corrupted by the power of their abilities. Zephram Cochrane, who lived in the years of this terrible nightmare, was a contributing factor to this second Renaissance.<p>Drawn from inferences about Zephram Cochrane's character, he was raised in a very conservative, farming family. As he grew older, Cochrane learned how to be a pilot and to do advanced science. <p>In his thirty-second year, Cochrane witnessed the Eugenics Wars. During these conflicts, he was funded by a well-moneyed organization to learn the processes for warp drive. The funding was well invested for warp drive was later proven a success. <p>At the conclusion of the Eugenics War four years later, Cochrane either piloted the first warp ship or supervised the first warp flight. The mission was a success. A few years later, the S.S. Valiant, one of the first 'starships', left Earth for a deep space mission.<p>During his lifetime, Cochrane had meetings with Vulcans and emigrated to the fledging colony of Alpha Centauri. There is a possibility that the Cochrane Deacceleration is named after a ship movement that he first used in an unknown battle. This ship combat technique was still used two centuries later in Kirk's time.<p>After 87 years of living, Cochrane chose to die in space and piloted a single seater shuttle to a distant region of the galaxy. He disappeared without a trace.<p>By Captain Kirk's time, Cochrane was revered by many species and had universities, worlds, and ships named after him.<p>Source: "Where No Man Has Gone Before"; "The Corbomite Maneuver"; "Space Seed"; "Metamorphoses", "Whom Gods Destroy"<p><i>Star Trek-X generation/Y generation</i><br />In the later series, humanity had been exploring the galaxy for three hundred years.<p>At the dawn of the exploration of the galaxy (the second Renaissance), humanity was shattered by a nuclear war. (The Eugenics War had occured decades earlier). In the midst of this horror, Cochrane conducted the first warp flight by humans.<p>Cochrane was a hard drinking and rock & roll loving entrepeneur who envisioned getting rich from the invention of warp flight. He hated to fly and had never visited a farm or lived on a farm. <p>With the help of associates, ex. Lily Sloane, Cochrane organized an effort to build and maintain a working launch pad for the Phoenix, the first warp ship. Cochrane conducted the first flight in April of 2063 and had the first human-Vulcan encounter.<p>He would later write and record many important speeches.<p>In the centuries to come, a high school, a starship, a shuttlecraft, measures of velocity and stress, etc. would be named after Cochrane. Many engineers and warp enthuasiasts would come to associate Cochrane with Chuck Yeager who broke the sound barrier in 1947.<p>Sources: "Remember Me"; "The Drumhead"; the episode with the Soliton Wave rider; First Contact<p><b>List of changes</b><br /><i>History</i><br />1.) Star Trek-Cochrane lived in the period of the Eugenics Wars.<br />2.) Later series-Cochrane lived in the period of the Third World War.<p><i>Personality and Background</i><br />1.) Star Trek-Cochrane was raised in a farming community where he was taught traditional values. He was a brilliant pilot and scientist. In his thirties, he invented warp drive.<br />2.) Later series-Cochrane was not a farmer and was not taught traditional values. He loved to drink and listen to old rock & roll. He had the capacity to be a brilliant scientist, but was more interested in being rich and loved by many beautiful women. He hated to fly and was not a pilot. Cochrane invented the warp drive in his fifties.<p>I think the change is important to note. Each interpretation of Cochrane represented the values of the writers at that time and at this time. This is one of the best cases for how Star Trek has changed from thirty years ago to today.<p>[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The_Tom</b> <br /><small>Member # 38</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,1,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> te: Might it be better for you to direct your energies towards curing cancer? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,7,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:42 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I think the point being made in FC is that history tends to idolize the exploits of those who we revere without taking into account their actual personality: FDR was a hard-drinking boozer who had an affair with his secretary. Thomas Jefferson had his way with his slaves, Sally Hemmings especially. Churchill barfed on a woman in public 40 years before Bush did it in Japan. Queen Elizabeth I outlawed male homosexuality but not lesbianism because she refused to believe it existed. All this is forgotten, though, the the stead of what they accomplished. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,16,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:24 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote>"Queen Elizabeth I outlawed male homosexuality but not lesbianism because she refused to believe it existed."</blockquote><p>Well, either that, or she just <i>was</i> lesbian... *L*<p>Yes, that was a joke. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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