Flare Sci-Fi Forums: New Comm Badges for Nemesis?

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Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

I think they should finally switch over to the AGT version. I think it looks a bit nicer with the current uniforms (Geordi in 'Timeless' VOY)

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

Yes, good idea. I always liked it.

Spoiler

BTW: According to many rumors, Admiral Janeway will appear in STX. I hope she doesn't have the common 3 pip admiral insignia.

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: Spike ]

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

I always hated those fucking things. That "hollow arrowhead on twin trapezoid" design is fucking UGLY.

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

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I've heard that Mulgrew has categorically denied all knowledge of any such cameo. It would be a nice idea, but she hasn't been approached. But one interesting thing is that Patrick Stewert recently hinted, and I quote...

"do not believe everything you see on the internet about Star Trek 10. There is a future for Star Trek: Voyager on the big screen..."

Hmmm

(This he annouced in a recent convention in Blackpool, UK)

There may be substance to what he says, or maybe he was just playing with the audience, but who knows.

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

Change things again? Sweet dancin jesus, boy, hold your horses.

They change things too often to be realistic as it is. They only switched to 'present' style in the past few 'years'.

My own inadaquately explaination goes like this:

Starships are broken down into generations with a certain design acting as that generations flagship (eg Galaxy as flagship design with Neb, Cheyenne, etc as design sisters). When this happens, uniforms are changed for some honorary reason to go along with it. Thus, as the first Galaxy-era ships rolled off the assembly line, officers switched over to TNG S1 uniforms. Before that, we had the movie stuff, suggesting this was a recently enacted (or revived) doctrine.

I'm too tired to pretend this makes sense. Critise it, and I'll defend it when I have more energy.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The change from the red movie uniforms to the early TNG uniforms was sometime between 2349 and 2354, according to "Encounter at Farpoint" and, um... another episode I don't recall...

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

The last known use of the "reds," albeit with the TNG-era commbadge, was in Jack Crusher's holomessage in "Family" (and/or his appearance in "Journey's End"), and therefore sometime in 2349 or 2350. (The last known use of the reds with the TWOK pin was 2344 as per "Yesterday's Enterprise")

The earliest known use of the TNG Theiss pajamas would be in "Violations" when we see Beverly's flashback to the death of Jack, which was, what, 2353 or so?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

That's the 2354 I referred to above. I couldn't remember the episode.

And the Encyclopedia says EaF had the holomessage from Jack Crusher, so that's what I said above. But, if it was "Family", okay.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

The All Good Things combadge was designed to be a one-shot, but has been used like 5 or 6 times. I think the design would need to be a little refined if it was going to be used in a feature or series.

Especially considering the AGT uniforms dont really work very well the wraparound isnt convincing, trying unsuccessfully to mimic the Movie era jackets with none of the finesse. If they wanted to use them ever again, i would add a contrast color (a black or gray collar or stripe or both and someplace to affix the rank insignia, because they look out of place all alone over the wrap. Plus the AGT uniforms were meant to show the future evolution of the TNG uniforms, but since they added the First Contact uniforms, it seems the future designs might go in a different direction (making their use in Endgame kind of questionable)

Of course, the real reason Starfleet redesigns all its uniforms and insignia ever few years is to get stupid fanboys like me to $hell out for some more pins at conventions (or 'cons' for short, ironically enough)

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

I think there's another ep which narrows down the change from movie uniforms - "Suddenly Human" has a pic of that kid Jono's human family with him as a baby and his parents wearing early TNG outfits, and he's supposed to have been born somewhere around 2350. . .

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I think it may be too soon for any alterations in the uniform/pin designs. Hell, in the modern era of Trek series, there have been four uniform designs (three if you don't count the minor alteration of the uniforms between TNG seasons 2 and 3) and two combadge designs. It's still a wee bit early for that. Give it another couple years and it might be time to change out the rank pips, though.

If they were to change the insignia design, I came up with one while doodling in class last year that I think looks kinda neat. It's essentially two of the Starfleet arrowheads. The first one is sideways and pointing to the right. It's a little thinner and a little longer than the normal arrowhead. The second arrowhead is just centered on top of it. If I get it scanned in, I'll post a picture of it.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I wouldn't count the DS9 design as separate from the second TNG one. Chronologically, those were more or less parallel: the TNG ones even persisted after the discontinuation of the DS9 ones (save for Voyager) and the adoption of the FC style, as seen during the many DS9 Earth visits and a couple of sixth-season stationside scenes.

I could have done without the FC variant, really, but it's not quite that crowded in the "modern" era as it seems. Frequent and illogical uniform changes are so much a Trek rule that I'm instead annoyed at the *lack* of discontinuity between ST2 and "Tapestry", or the too logical and gradual progression from "Tapestry" to "Yesterday's Enterprise". :-P

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Pro. Portside (Member # 390) on :

I for one do not like the AGT comm badges for a simmple tech reson. These are COMM badges and a cording to the NGTM the arrow head housed all the comm parts and power supply with the oval background housing the antina. With the DS9(and any ohters like it) virsion all they changed is the antina. But if you hollow out the arrow head where do you put the stuff that was in there?
dose star fleet has that kind of micro tech?
are the going to stich the comm parts into the uniforms?

sorry to bring tech in to this but I felt This had to be said.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Well, I think the tech could fit inside the little rectangles. Maybe one rectangle is the antenna and the other contains the communicator.

The earliest chronological use of the AGT comm badge we've seen is LaForge in "Timeless". And he was still wearing the FC uni. So the comm badge changes before the uniforms do...but that still doesn't narrow the date down enough. It was, what, 25 years in the future? How far ahead was AGT?

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

I dont think the movie producers will have any reason to desire changing the uniforms anyway.

In ST:I they had new uniforms because the director wanted to tone down the colors for the big screen. They cost a lot of $

In ST:II they had new uniforms because everyone said that the ST:I uniforms sucked. The new ones cost even more $ (with the exception of the shoes, which were horribly expensive in ST:I)

They kept those for 6 movies because it was easier and there was no reason to change.

In ST:TNG they had new uniforms because they a)needed to show the future setting b) wanted to return to the older design philosophy (i.e. color)

They slighly modified those (year 3) because everyone was uncomfortable, and plus Riker was getting fat.

DS9 had new work jumpsuit uniforms to show they were not in as perfect a place as the ships crew. They didnt replace the old ones, but were a variant. Everyone really liked those so they started to show up on ships and stuff.

Generations was slated to introduce new jackets for the same reason ST:I did.. to show that they were in movies now. However they were horribly crap, and were thrown out before ever being seen.
The end product of Generations was superb, showing the DS9 uniforms looked really snazzy on the ships crew.

The new combadge was designed though, for Voyager, and was incorporated into the film too.

But ST:FC decided to redesign them, much like ST:II did, because they had a desire to change their uniforms from the first feature.

Going by the pattern of the previous movies, theyll probably use these for quite a while, unless a new TV show premieres, in which case theyll want to come up with a new badge and possibly a new variant uniform, that probalby wont replace the FCs but coexist.

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

WAS the new commbadge introduced specifically for Voyager, though? If so, and they wanted to have a change then before tying thermselves down to having the old-style for the next seven years, it's a pity that they didn't extend the same logic to the phasers (which magically changed after "The 37s").

And by the time of "Coda," any such thoughtfulness had gone out the window when they had Janeway's father wearing a commbadge style that hadn't existed when he died. . .

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

I've also heard that the new badge was made for Generations, but most of my sources say
it was for Voyager. Either way, they were in preproduction both at the same time so it was probably a joint decision and a moot point anyway.

I've never credited the producers of Voyager as being 'thoughtful' At least the uniforms didnt magically turn grey. (although they could have decided to once they got the patterns from Starfleet in 'Message in a Bottle')

And Admiral Janeway was an alien illusion, so they wouldnt know what old combadges looked like ;-) But Janeway should have, and it was taken from her mind.

That gaffe led that admirals uniform, which should be in the '2350s-2365' era uniforms to be placed in the '2366-2373' uniform section of ST:The Magazine.. all the more proof they have their heads up their asses

Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :

quote:
The earliest chronological use of the AGT comm badge we've seen is
LaForge in "Timeless". And he was still wearing the FC uni. So the comm
badge changes before the uniforms do...but that still doesn't narrow the
date down enough. It was, what, 25 years in the future? How far ahead
was AGT?

IIRC, "Timeless" was supposed to be set fifteen years in the future. The "current" part of the episode took place in 2375, which puts the future events in 2390.

AGT was set 25 years in the future from season 7 (2370), which means LaForge's use of the badge is 5 years before AGT.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Voyager finale spoilers
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And Endgame was set even farther ahead than AGT, IIRC correctly. 33 years after Voyager's 7th season.

So, that means that the FC uniforms will be in use for at least the next 12-15 years, but sometime before that, the combadges will change at least once, eventually arriving at the AGT design. Soon thereafter, the uniforms will also change to the AGT uniforms and will remain in use for at least the next 10 years or so.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Maybe.

Remember, all information from the future can be changed.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I hope so. I hate those uniforms.

Posted by Soundwave (Member # 138) on :

No kidding, they received the low end of the AGT budget and then for more future scenes it was cheaper to re-use crappy uniforms then make new ones. Unfortunately if they did that then everybody would bitch about lack of continuity.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, now that they've shown those uniforms in at least three future timelines, and the commbadges alos in a fourth, I think they should stick to it.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Theyve also shown a beautiful ship bisected by a third warp nacelle and phaser cannon in the future.

No, i think that if the future looks like shit, we should try to change it, not blindly go along.

Wow, it sounds like im talking about more than cheesy uniforms here

ps.. im not dissing the return of trek to a colorful format.. i just think the AGT desgins need some serious tweaking. especially after endgame, where they didnt even fit everyone very well.

Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :

quote:
And Endgame was set even farther ahead than AGT, IIRC correctly. 33
years after Voyager's 7th season.

Not quite. The opening said Voyager had spent 33 years in the Delta Quadrant, so that puts it 33 years after "Caretaker" and 26 years after "Endgame."

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

Wait, I thought they spent 26 years in the DQ, and future-Endgame was 10 years after that? Oh, what the fuck, shows how un-memorable the bloody episode was. . .

Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :

From what I remember Vogon Poet is right.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Vogon Poet is never right.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Thats an excellent point.

Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :

IMHO , the Uniforms used from ST:II - ST:VI were the best. But i guess that uniform gave starfleet a more 'militaristic' look, than those jumpsuits do.

Buzz

Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :

quote:
Wait, I thought they spent 26 years in the DQ, and future-Endgame was 10
years after that? Oh, what the fuck, shows how un-memorable the bloody
episode was. . .

Just watched a repeat of Endgame last night. Admiral Janeway told Captain Janeway that it would take her 16 more years to get Voyager home. Add 7 years to that, and you come up with 23 years.

Of course, they couldn't have spent all that time in the Delta Quadrant; after all, we all know they should have reached the Beta Quadrant by now.