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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,9,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:54 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Ok, having just seen "Cold Front", I want to try and get all the time travelers we've seen over the years straight. You're going to have to help me fill in some blanks though.<p>1. Gary Seven (TOS)- I've never seen the episode. Was he a time traveler or just from a different planet? If he was from the future, when exactly was he from?<p>2. Berlinghoff Rasmussen (TNG)- Ok, not him, but the guy he stole the pod from. The scientist was from the 27th century, right? At that time, historians apparently need vehicles to transport themselves through time as opposed to being able to materialize. No evidense of any connection with a future version of Starfleet.<p>3. The aliens from "Captain's Holiday" (TNG) - I believe they also said they were from the 27th century, but I'm not sure. It's unclear whether they needed a vehicle or not. They appeared and disappered alot, but they could have just been beaming to and from a ship. This also seems to indicate that time traveling is a tool used by at least a few cultures.<p>4. Captain Braxton and Company (Voy) - 29th century. They can materialize with or without the use of a vehicle. Definitely associated with Starfleet. At this point, Starfleet is actively policing the timeline as well as studying past events.<p>5. The "Bad Guys" from Cold Front (ENT) - Well...we don't know if they're bad or not, but they're the guys giving the Suliban their orders. Can't materialize in the past at all. This would seem to put them post Voyager, but pre-27th century. So we're looking at 25th or 26th century. no indication of an association with Starfleet but anything's possible.<p>6. Daniels from "Cold Front" (ENT)- Again, we don't know if he was the "good guy" or even if he was telling the truth about when he or the "bad guys" are from. But he said he was from the 31st century. Could work for Starfleet, but didn't say so (I know he said he didn't, but he was talking about Earth's Starfleet). He can physically materialize apparently without the use of a vehicle. Makes sense since this is post-Relativity era.<p>Ok...did I miss any? I'm sure I got some dates wrong. Amazingly, if this is correct, the technology and level of involvement by these various organizations appears fairly consistant. And of course we don't have a clue as to the "whole story" behind most of these people.<p>Any thoughts? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,9,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:56 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Gary Seven wasn't a time traveller (that I know of). He was 'adopted' by an alien race who took it upon themselves (through their 'agents') to mingle in the affairs of other races to make sure they didn't destroy themselves and could enjoy a long, and prosperous space-faring future. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,12,25,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:25 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote>"Can't materialize in the past at all. This would seem to put them post Voyager, but pre-27th century."</blockquote><p>Oy... Just because one group can do something at a given time, that doesn't mean they <i>all</i> can. After all, look at how many planets don't have warp drive. Every time we see someone w/o warp, do we have to assume we've gone back in time to before 2061 (even though we also know other races had warp before humans)?<p>Besides, people could already physically transport themselves back in time during TOS. I'm sure FutureGuy <i>could</i> go back in time if he wanted to. But why would he? It's better to project himself. The only problem is that he can only project an <i>image</i>, while someone like Daniels can project a physical form.<p>But, regardless of that... My real gripe is that you're assuming that, because <i>one</i> person could time-travel in the 27th century, <i>evryone</i> could do it then. It's entirely probable that Rasmussen's victim and the "Captain's Holiday" aliens had better technology in the 27th century than FutureGuy does in the 28th, 29th, 30th, &c. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>OnToMars</b> <br /><small>Member # 621</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,13,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> But that diminshes the dramatic effect of FutureGuy's villiany. What you say makes a lot of sense. But if FutureGuy is the greatest time travel villian ever to be featured on Star Trek, then he would be better suited to have the most advanced tech of his time. You don't give Big Ominous FutureGuy second rate equipment, especially when his whole schtick is that he's the Big Ominous FutureGuy.<p>(I got to use 'villiany' in a sentence <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,13,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:16 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Exactly. I'm assuming that the species we've seen who apparently employ time travel rather commonly (which means I'm not talking about risky manuvers around the sun or accidently falling into temporal thingamobobs) in their respective times exist within a "community" that shares a certain level of technology.<p>Why do I assume this? Because we've seen them all interested in things going on in the past of our local area of the galaxy. EvilFutureGuy is apparently very interested in the inner workings of the Klingon Empire. Which tells me that both him and Daniels' group probably have interests in this area of space. I am therefore assuming that these various time travelers are all from the Federation locale and thus probably have a common level of tech.<p>Also, when Daniels was explaining why EvilFutureGuy couldn't materialize fully, he said that it was because he was from an early time period, not because he had inferior abilities. This implies that he's using the best equipment available in his time and in his part of the galaxy...at least as far as Daniels knows.<p>Look, it's just an assumption. You may want to point out a flaw, but let's not get huffy.<p>[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Siegfried</b> <br /><small>Member # 29</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,15,10,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:10 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The more I think about it, the more I think that Daniels was being deliberately misleading with his information. If we assume that he was on the side of the "good guys," he would be doing everything possible to prevent pollution of the timeline. And the information he was spouting suggests that he was being misleading (if the assumption is correct) or the information was true (if the assumption is incorrect).<p>Personally, I'm partial to the idea that Big Ominous Evil Future Shadow Guy (herein referred to as Bob) has the best technology of his time. The thing is, he's hiding somewhere in time. He's from some time in the future, but he's hiding somewhere deep in the layers of time, space, and pudding to plan his assaults and direct the Suliban. This can explain why no one from a later time period has gone back to Bob's time to prevent him from doing any of this to start with. He dare not materialize in any time less the "good guys" take that opportunity to nab him. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,15,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:17 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Whenever i do something wrong i usually try the 'I'm from the future and im trying to help' excuse. Cops didnt buy it though, they didnt see how beating that guy to death could help the future timelines...<p>small minded fools! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,5,19,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 05, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Aban: You could be right there. But there's still the fact that Daniels had to be talking about time-projection, not time-travel. If he were talking about time-travel, FutureGuy would have to be from before the mid-to-late-2200s, or else he could easily travel through time w/ nothing more than a Klingon Bird of Prey and a Vulcan.<br /><br />Now, by your reasoning (everyone has approximately the same level of temporal technology), FutureGuy would almost certainly have to be from approximately the thirtieth century. Braxton didn't have any time-projection technology (or he would have used it, rather than that Seven-killing-transporter, in "Relativity") in the twenty-ninth century, and Daniels places him prior to whatever part of the thirty-first century Daniels hails from. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,6,5,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 06, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:15 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, Daniels didn't seem to think that Bob's temporal technology was all that hot. He seemed to be saying that Bob didn't have the <i>ability</i> to materialize in the past. To him, it seemed to be a limitation.<br /><br />Though I do like Siegfried's thought that he is simply hiding and doesn't <i>want</i> to materialize lest he be caught or killed.<br /><br />The problem with the two groups from Enterprise is that we really don't know who's on what side yet or who is telling the truth and who's lying. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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