Flare Sci-Fi Forums: "The Voyager Conspiracy"

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Good episode. I'm not much for nitpicking Voyager on every little detail so I'll leave that to the experts here. Though there is one thing that still bothers me, that did appear to be a tractor beam used onboard Starfleet ships. I know Seven's brain was overloading, but the tractor beam was still there regardless. Of course there's also the possibility it wasn't a tractor beam at all.

As for next weeks episode, I'm really looking forward to that.

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Calvin: "I'm a man of few words."
Hobbes: "Maybe if you read more, you'd have a larger vocabulary."
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Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Could that tractor beam come from the USS Equinox? That ship apparently arrived in the Delta Quad before Voyager, so that could explain a few things. But the theory of that cloaking device, I thought that the Defiant Class prototype was the only one to have a cloaking device? That's if you don't count the cloak that the Enterprise-D used in "The Pegasus."

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What you did, as long as you love me.
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What you did, as long as you love me.

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Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :

The Equnox didn't have a cloak or they would use it while running from Voyager. I think this ties in with Section 31, specificly key points seven brought up about Tuvok.

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Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :

The array itself could have beamed away it's core thingy. Maybe it would have destroyed the planet if it was caught in the explosion or something.

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Posted by Lt. Tom on :

Michael_T: But on the other hand, if there really was a conspiracy, Starfleet could have easily stuck a cloak on another ship.

And I don't think we can realistically say that was the USS Equinox, since Ransom and his crew would have no reason to be using their CGI creature drive--if they weren't assigned to map the region, they'd be under orders to work on the catapult.

DeadCujo: That doesn't look like a transporter effect to me...

[This message has been edited by Lt. Tom (edited November 25, 1999).]

Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :

I meant maybe it pushed it away like the alien and the Catapult.

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The Unknown Vulcan
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Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

I liked the ep!

But I felt that the Captain and Chakotay were too easily shifted to 'THE DARK SIDE'! All of the facts that Seven was blurting out, would not have been enough for me to commit mutiny. But I digress.

Now that catapult is sitting there for anyone to use.. I wonder if they're going to use that in the future.

And what was that tractor beam??? Maybe there's a Romulan in the DQ??!!

MAN... We're becoming as bad as Seven. To speculate or not to speculate.. that is the question!!

** Friendly reminder Hobbes - Some europeans haven't come close to seeing this ep.. we may wanna put some $$$ in the post Title??
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Alshrim Dax

[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited November 25, 1999).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Or perhaps the tractor beam was part of the damaged self-destruct sequence on the array. Maybe the array's power core was affected by the subspace field generated by an incoming tri-cobalt device, and the computer on board the array decided to eject it. If the ejection sequence uses a standard tractor beam to push the core into this "null space" before it explodes, everything would be explained. Since the core never exploded, it would have popped up somewhere, and that would explain how Mr. alien-of-the-week got his hands on it.

One problem with Seven's theories was that the core was carried by a series of ships to the location where the catapult was built. Ships faster than Voyager, including Transwarp, Slipstream, and Kes jumps? That'd have to be ships constantly traveling at transwarp velocities. There don't appear to be that many races with that ability.

All in all, a good episode. At least it didn't turn out to be some alien manipulating the crew, like in Hope and Fear.

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Posted by Individual 5748 on :

But did they ever definitively say that Tash's catapult was the Caretaker's reactor? I think Seven was only considering it. It is possible that it is simply from another species. The Voth maybe? I don't think they ever said for sure that what was on the catapult is what was on the array. But I could be mistaken.

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Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Good point 5748

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Alshrim Dax

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

How I'd redo "TVC":

Well Seven would discover the mysterious Starfleet tractor beam and the crew would start to investage it. Some interesting plot twists later they still don't discover the source of the beam, only that it is definatly Starfleet.

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Calvin: "I'm a man of few words."
Hobbes: "Maybe if you read more, you'd have a larger vocabulary."
Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.

Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :

I liked the episode. It was interesting.

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quite a disputed defintion.

Posted by KXZ (Member # 119) on :

Since I don't get Voyager anymore where I live, does anyone have, or know where, I can read a full synopsis? This was one of the episodes I really wanted to see this season. I'll be trying to get a satellite dish soon, so I should see the rest of the season.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Spoiler warnings aren't really needed in the title. The name of the episode is there. Anyone who comes into the thread and then complains that they didn't know it was about an ep they hadn't seen needs to be tarred and feathered... :-)

As for the epsiode itself, I thought it was crap. As mentioned, Janeway and Chakotay were way too quick to believe Seven's unfounded rantings. Plus, when they finally confronted each other in the cargo bay, there was plenty of potential for playing w/ the tension and paranoia between them. Instead, they resolved the matter within a couple minutes. And then, of course, there was the big red reset button the writers pressed at the end, which almost always cuts an episode's quality at least in half...

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"General Hammond: Request permission to beat the crap out of this man."
-Colonel O'Neill, Stargate: SG-1: "Bane"

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Understood TSN... Just looking out for the poeple who don't get it... But I understand!!!

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Alshrim Dax

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Actually, you SHOULD put a spoiler warning in just in case. Otherwise I'll get angry, and you don't want that. Believe me, you don't.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Just in case what? Somebody w/ a brain the size of a mulberry doesnt realize that a thread entitled "'The Voyager Conspiracy'" is about the episode "The Voyager Conspiracy"? In a case like that, I'm rather certain a couple of dollar signs won't make any difference. The purpose of spoiler warnings is to let people know that an episode is being spoiled when they wouldn't know otherwise. Telling someone to put dollar signs by the episode title is about as daft as complaining about the lack of dollar signs in a title that has the word "spoilers" in it. '$' is not the one and only way to warn of spoilers. It's merely a shorthand peculiar to this board and (to a lesser extent) its users elsewhere. An episode title is just as much a spoiler warning as a dollar sign or the word "spoilers".

</rant>

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"General Hammond: Request permission to beat the crap out of this man."
-Colonel O'Neill, Stargate: SG-1: "Bane"

[This message has been edited by TSN (edited November 26, 1999).]

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

People are stupid. Just as some people will look in a thread that might contain spoilers just because of the title, so people in North America often forget that not EVERYONE's seen an ep just because it was only on a week ago.

What I want is for people to get into the habit of putting up spoiler warnings, NO MATTER WHAT. I want them to think first.

So, put up a spoiler warning whenever possible, or else. Does that sound like a threat? Good, because it is.

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

You can get full synopsis of every episode here: http://www.reviewboy.com/

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Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

THANK you, Knightychops. Finally someone telling us what the episode is about - I believe someone else did ask, and got no reply. *goes to look* 8)

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

If somebody is stupid to their own detriment, I really couldn't care less. Let them be spoiled.

And my point was that he did put up a spoiler warning. The episode title is, in and of itself, a spoiler warning. I really hate when people insist that something be done one, and only one, specific way, regardless of the fact that other ways are no worse or better.

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"Is he live or dead? Has he thoughts within his head?"
-Black Sabbath, "Iron Man"

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I didn't put $'s on purpose because I felt it wasn't necessary in this case. But putting the title of the episode in the thread title you should easily relize that if you haven't seen the episode this thread would contain spoiler information. Spelling it out would be extremely redundant.

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Calvin: "I'm a man of few words."
Hobbes: "Maybe if you read more, you'd have a larger vocabulary."
Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Yeah, that's tight. Let us be spoiled. After all, it's our own fault we don't live in the Land of the Free, and we're all going to be nuked by you one day anyway, so why bother?

Redundancy is good. In this case, as you can see, I haven't altered the thread title because it IS obvious. And Hobbes says he did think beforehand about spoiler warnings, so that's good enough for me - this time.

Just remember: think before you post.

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

First One has a point. In order to be able to recognize a NEW episode title, one has to be familiar with every single episode title in the last five years. Not everybody reads episode guides on a daily basis, it's just something we can look up.

And it might be a good idea to keep the language down a bit.

Boris

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Lee: No, it's your fault if you go into a thread titled w/ the name of an episode you haven't seen. Where you live has no bearing on that.

Boris: If somebody doesn't recognize the episode title, a few dollar signs won't make any difference. They still won't know if they've seen it or not.

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"Is he live or dead? Has he thoughts within his head?"
-Black Sabbath, "Iron Man"

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Holy ....
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Alshrim Dax

[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited November 29, 1999).]

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Listen.. I didn't mean to cause such a kafuffle!!!!

I've gotten into the habit, for the sake of some people in the UK, or Australia of putting $$$ 's in my titles if I think there's a possibility of there being spoilers.

If you don't wanna put Spoiler indicators in the title... don't. It's no big deal. For those in europe and Australia, they are one year behind in episodes.. maybe some one.. even if for one person .. won't know what the latest episode is. We can't expect EVERYONE to be as up to date as we are.. that's all I was trying to say.

TSN: I see your point.. and to some degree I agree with you, don't get me wrong.

Hobbes: I meant no disrespect, nor was I trying to by Holier Than Thou, or a know it all.

And for the record, I will say that no-one is stupid .. maybe behind, or ignorant!!! We are all human, and if someone wants to go into a thread where they know the ep will be spoiled, then so be it... they were fore-warned. It takes two more seconds when generating the topic for the thread, and keeps everyone happy! Topics like this won't get ruined because of a 'Maybe we should; maybe we shouldn't' discussion that is completely off topic.

There's no point in going on about this anymore. As I've said, I didn't want it to blow like this... I apologize if I've offended anyone ... such was not my intention!

Peace, love and harmony to everyone ...

In the Words of LT.Commander Data to Mr.Worf:
"Worf, I'm sorry if I have ended our friendship!"

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Alshrim Dax

[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited November 29, 1999).]

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

And Monty... What's a kafuffle?

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Believe me, I'm not saying there shouldn't be spoiler warnings. I'm just saying that, if there already is a spoiler warning (in the form of the episode's title), there's no reason to also put dollar signs, or whatever. That's all I'm saying.

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"Is he live or dead? Has he thoughts within his head?"
-Black Sabbath, "Iron Man"

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Actually, Boris has an excellent point. How can people know that it's an episode they haven't seen before? You don't GET Voyager, Tim, have you seen some of the bloody stupid titles they use? There was an ep on last night on Sky - "Fair Trade." The one-sentence synopsis made it clear it's one I've seen, but the title meant nothing to me whatsoever.

Or look at it another way - many of us have opined that no-one could accidentally produce the kind of pap that now features on Voyager, therefore they must be doing it deliberately. You could call it a conspiracy at Paramount/UPN - let's call it "The Voyager Conspiracy." I could start a thread with this title in all innocence, never dreaming the confusion it would cause.

And you expect everyone who visits to be able to run through this in their minds (to, in effect, have a handy episode list) before entering a thread? Christ, and they say I'M nasty to new members. . .

No, this ends here. I'm pulling rank. Put a spoiler warning in, or you're fucked.

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

$$$ have been a tradition since I've been here, regardeless of the threads title. If I se a title without $$ then I think we have a discussion of the ep without giving away details.

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

Just to back this up...

YOU WILL PLACE THE $$$$ SPOILER SYMBOLS IN A THREAD TITLE IF THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF IT CONTAINING SPOILERS. Even better, also mention the season number.

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Me: "My virginity..."

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

In a meek voice:
"I was just trying to be friendly"

Kafuffle: (noun) Meaning: Ummm.. not sure either!!

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Alshrim Dax

[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited November 29, 1999).]

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Alshrim: Well, it's just that I've heard it has different meanings in Scotland.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

TSN: I agree, a few spoiler signs won't make a difference unless we agree that they refer to North American air dates. If an episode does -not- contain spoiler signs, than it's most likely one seen in the US at least a week ago, and as far as I remember, such episodes have historically been fair discussion.

Maybe this needs to change. Here is a suggestion:

1) Determine the percentages of members living in each country represented on these forums.

2) Determine the time gap between U.S. airdates and those of every respective country.

3) Take a weighted average of these timegaps to determine the time (following U.S. airdate) during which the spoiler signs should be applied. Weighted average is the one teachers use to average assignments of different point-values.

Examples (fake):

Germany = 1 year gap, 90% members German
Canada = 0.3 year gap, 10% Canadian
U.S. = 0 year gap, 1% US.

Therefore, spoiler signs need to be applied for 0.90*1 + 0.10*0.3 + 0.01 * 0 = 0.93 years following a U.S. airdate.

Boris

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited November 29, 1999).]

Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

Boris, if you post spoiler warnings for 0.93 year, each German will inadvertantly read a spoiler 0.07 year before the episode airs in Germany. After waiting so long to see the episode, these Germans would probably be upset.

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Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :

I'd say for the majority of Canadians, it's a 0.0 to 0.01 gap. It ranges anywhere between right at the same time to 6 days.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

How wonderful to know that the monarchy has chosen to rule on this... >:-<

So, this example of how "The Voyager Conspiracy" could be about something other than that episode. Okay, I'll buy that. But, if I title a thread "The Voyager Conspiracy" because it is about the vast UPN conspiracy to make VOY suck, and I put in a '$', because there are references to episodes that I don't know if you've seen or not, you'll think it's about the episode "The Voayger Conspiracy", when it isn't.

And, to use your other example... If I title a thread "'Fair Trade'", you'll have to go check whether or not you've seen it. If I title the same thread "'Fair Trade' $", you'll still have to check whether or not you've seen it.

Oh, and I do get VOY now...

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"Is he live or dead? Has he thoughts within his head?"
-Black Sabbath, "Iron Man"

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

You know, how are new users supposed to know that the $ denotes a spoiler? It's mostly new users we're protecting in the first place, since I don't think there are many people on the forums currently who don't read spoilers. And, by Lee's reasoning, those users should all be posting in this thread about now, since they all read this thread and became enraged when they noticed the spoilers.

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Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

So put in ($poilers$). Or whatever. Show some f***ing initiative, for crying out loud. 8)

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

I've been coming to these Forums since it was UFP1 at Simplenet !! Back then they used to have an appendix for newbies so that one can learn what the misc. symbols meant.

And Elim Garak: I used Kafuffle in the context that I didn't mean to cause such a mess or uproar.

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Alshrim Dax

[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited November 30, 1999).]

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

England is about a year behind us in seasons of trek, I think. Some places I noticed, are even further, like a year and a half.

As for newbies, it took me only a day or two to figure out what $$$ meant. I had to ask what TTYL, BTW, and IMHO meant. And IIRC

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Alshrim: I know.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

And ROTFL (Return of the Fett Leia)

And ROTFLAMAO (Return of the Fett Leia, Anakin, Maul And Owen)

Boris

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Initiative, eh? Okay, I'm going to show initiative by refusing to use the dollar sign as a symbol for "spoiler"... :-)

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"Is he live or dead? Has he thoughts within his head?"
-Black Sabbath, "Iron Man"

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Ooh, a bolshie librarian, how mindbogglingly non-terrifying. . . 8)

Do whatever you want, Timothy. Just so long as posts containing spoilers include soome sort of warning of spoilers, you're safe.

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

TSN: Use @@@@@ for spoilers ;p - or *** or HEY, THERE'S A DARN SPOILER IN HERE - HELP ME FIND IT

- Just playin'

As I've said... $'s are handy.. I'll use 'em for respect sake.

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- Alshrim Dax
The Other Dax