Flare Sci-Fi Forums: A general notice (you provocated it)

This is topic A general notice (you provocated it) in forum General Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

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Posted by Chris on :

Hey guys, I'm still out there.
With pleasure I noticed the pathetic little accusations or the constant ignoration of some of you, just wondering if we are really all adults here. To be more direct: What do you think, why do I include references to my website (one per topic at maximum)? To promote my site? To get more money? This is really ridiculous! I wanna share my cartography ideas, that I put in explanations, tables, programs on my site, with YOU, so that WE can compare and discuss our opinions and WE together can perhaps proceed in this complicated topic. But every little reference is simply called SPAM here. Secondly, why are only calculations of some (I guess) privileged persons accepted? Why don't some of you try to be a bit more open, less arrogant and ignorant, try to be more like a trekker?
So I will stop to directly mention my pathetic little website in this pathetic little forum, I think you all know the URL in the meantime ...

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Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :

Well, I won't touch on the spam issue, as its ultimately up to CC and the Admins what spam is, but as to the question as to why calculations by certain people (probably aimed at me) are seemingly valued more than others, the answer is quite simple: I've been doing it a long time. I was the first person here at the Forums that did an in-depth, comprehensive look at Voyager's progress. People here have come to rely on me for my latest statement, following new pieces of information. It's not that your calculations are any more or less valid than mine or anyone elses. The data is open to interpretation.

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"Stop right there! I have here the only working phaser ever built! It was fired only once: to keep William Shatner from making another album."

- The Collector, "Treehouse of Horror X," The Simpsons.

Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :

I like it when people spam thier websites to me. It gives me a chance to JACK their pics

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

LOL

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- Alshrim Dax
The Other Dax

Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :

If you want to give us a link to your site and not get nailed with a spam put the link in your signature. That way people can see it and say "I haven't been there before I wonder what it is like?" with out having to put up with a big narrative about the site. As for the calculations give it time if your good and accurate people will listen.

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Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Incidentally, there's no such word as "provocated."
or "ignoration."

Just me being a pedantic english major.

It is true that nobody would have any justification to objecting to a homepage link in a signature.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited December 06, 1999).]

Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

First of Two: Unless you are willing and able to conduct this forum in a language other than English, please do not correct the grammatical errors of non-native English speakers, even in jest. I mention this in the interest of civility and fairness.

I am an American teaching at a medical school in Japan. I know that Japanese and other non-native English speakers find it extremely difficult to communicate in English: don't make it harder by complaining about their mistakes.

The point of these forums is the content of communication, not the method. OK?

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Gah! If I were learning English, I would always appreciate corrections to grammar and spelling. I thus wouldn't make those mistakes in the future. English is warped enough the way it is; we might as well keep it as viable as possible.

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Frank's Home Page
"Ou tou kratountos h� polis nomizetai" - Creon

Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

Frank: Perhaps you might appreciate it, but do not assume that everyone else does. This is not an English-education forum. This is not the place for pointing out language errors.

I know that when I'm trying to debate in Japanese and someone points out mistakes in how I am speaking rather than commenting on what I am talking about, it is rather upsetting. Are we going to start pointing out language usage errors for everyone here? That sort of behavior will discourage non-native speakers from posting. Is that what you want?

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

I think (being a junior member I can't take many risks but I feel I must voice my opinion anyway) that this discussion should be kept centered around the real issue here: the fact that even the slightest form of spamming (although mentioning ones' own website which concerns Trek can hardly be considered spam) is immediately killed by one of the webmasters of this forum. That, IMVHO, is a bit too strict for my taste.

If someone has built a good website (non-commercial I mind you) around Trek, then what is the problem if he/she mentions the URL in one or two topics? You don't HAVE to visit it people! I agree, if a person includes the URL in every odd line the thread should be closed, but if he/she indicates it only once or twice (thereby letting people know they have a Trek-oriented site) they should not instanteously be banned.

And lets not get into language-arguments please, before this thing escalates into a really ugly fight. We are supposed to tolerate eachother, and if someone makes a few typos, who cares?

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

*activates Offensensitivity Alert*

OH, learn to take a joke with the rest of Humanity.

If I were trying to communicate in a different language, I would be glad to be corrected, as I'd want to be as clear as possible to the people I was talking to. Clarity is good, it prevents mistakes like translating "Pepsi brings you back to Life" into Chinese as "pepsi brings your ancestors back from the dead" Or trying to sell a car named "Nova" in a spanish-speaking country, (No va = it doesn't go, get it?) both of which have been done.

It doesn't matter though, since it was humor (admittedly pretty lame) I was going for, not correction. (And how was I to know he's not a natove speaker? I KNOW people who have spoken 'english' their whole lives who speak it with more malapropisms and misstatements than that...)

Now, back on topic: I've thought about it for some time, and I agree that the reaction to in-thread site postings may be a bit extreme, but I believe it's there to keep the problem from becoming any worse. If we let someone post a comment simply about their site, what's to stop somebody from starting to multi-post about their site in all the forums, under the same rationale of "if you don't want to read it, don't?" Wouldn't that get awfully tiresome awfully fast?

It's really simple to put a site link in your sig, certainly no more difficult than it is to put it in your regular post, and if the ideas you post are worthy, people will visit your site anyway.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :

wow!

no really wow!

ok,

I have to agree with First of Two. I am an Italian minor, I have taken many language classes, plus I have many friends from many different countries that have english as a second or third for that matter language, they never feel insulted when I correct them, in fact they appreciate it.

-FTM

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and I, I took the road less traveled by, and that has made all the diference.

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

Three annotations:

The first one: Chris, I'm glad you're still here and have not been disintegrated. I don't know what the sarcastic comments about your latest posts were useful for.

2) The rules of posting are not obvious, they should be more definite. How can I know if an inline link is regarded as spam or a useful hint? Generally, if someone has created something new, be it a starship drawing, a map of the galaxy or a story, it should be allowed to post a link to the website, rather than in-line images without descriptions. I remember this has been commonly accepted in the past. There have been *very few* occasions in the past when people have really tried to promote their websites and never posted anything again. I know it's not up to me but I don't see the reason why the forum couldn't handle it more liberally.

Furthermore, I don't see the difference between a link within the text and a signature, unless the only text is "check out my website". BTW, there are better ways to promote a site than in this forum.

IMHO, a website forum should be considered, unless the present posting policy is changed.

3) Probably no one would be offended if kindly notified of grammatic, word or spelling errors, as First of Two did. I am glad each time someone points out my errors. The only thing is that it must not sound like a sarcastic comment.
BTW: Some time ago some company intended to market a perfume called "Mist" in Germany, not knowing that "Mist" means dung. ;-)

Supplement:
I have removed my website links from both the signature and the profile. You know where to find me.

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"Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions." (VOY: "Infinite Regress")

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

We've had a website forum. It failed, rather miserably.

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"I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go."
--
John Linnell

Posted by Chris on :

Indeed, your language corrections didn't insult me (I noticed the bad "provocated - provoke" error myself (but thanks for the other advice) short time after I started this topic, unfortunatelay, I don't have the authority to change any headings ...), because I'm trying to improve my English, however, I think this is very misplaced here. I wanted to show a major problem in this forum, which main purpose should be UNLICENSED, free DISCUSSION (many people seriously talking about one specific topic), rather than (accidentally) present some nice lanuage errors, and offer an opportunity to critize the critizer.
Well, I thank all of you to deal with this topic seriously and extensively.

Krenim: I might not deal with Voyager's route as you, however, I have to major complains (to say it straight to the point): in terms of Voyager's course, you usually use this forum to present your figures as an authority on this topic, without any in-depth explanations. The same on your homepage. What are your sources, how do you calculate the figures, what are your reason to take this fact in this way and not another etc. These shouldn't be accusations, but do you think there aren't any other people who might be *really* interested in your ideas? Secondly, the same problem, but vice versa: You never replied to any of my Voyager route postings, although I was especially interested on your opinion (also on the other stuff in my cartography section.

I can only repeat: This forum's purpose is discussion, not senseless smalltalk or isolationist postings.

(There might be many errors in this text, however please no further corrections on this. Focus on what is said; it think this is understandable.)

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Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :

If you look back far enough, you'll see that I did, in fact, used to post the entirety of my calculations when stating Voyager's distance travelled and current position. However, I tired of having to write everything out every few episodes, so I just started posting the results. No one has since requested the calculations themselves. However, if you insist, I shall post the entirety of my calculations when I complete the latest version of them. I don't know when I will complete them, however, as I have school work and other projects that I am working on.

That is also why I have yet to comment on your calculations. I certainly can't compare yours and mine until I complete mine.

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"Stop right there! I have here the only working phaser ever built! It was fired only once: to keep William Shatner from making another album."

- The Collector, "Treehouse of Horror X," The Simpsons.