I was watching Voyager's season finale and season primier and discovered something; at one time, captain Janeway referred to Burke as commander but during a scene where he and Torres were in engineering, during their conversation, I noticed that there were only two pips on his uniform. So, is he a commander or a lieutenant?
------------------ "...nothing unreal exists..."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think he was supposed to be a Lt. I don't remember the line where Janeway called him Commander, but I remember thinking "Why do they have an Lt. for an XO?"
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
well maybe cause it was a science vessel... what about the Lt that commanded Gideon Seyetik's ship...
maybe the XO had died...
------------------ "All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Starfleet Props screwed up again.
------------------ So small, So innocent, so young, So delicately done Grown up in your poison.
"Little Baby Swastikkka" -Skunk Anansie
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I can believe that he was the XO because the Equinox's regular XO had been killed, but the way Torres talked, it sounded like he had been assigned that post.
As far as the Lt. commanding the Promethueus in "Second Sight"...this really pisses me off! There is no way that Starfleet would assign a Lt. to command one of the most powerful class of ships, even if it was assigned to science duty at the time. Maybe an Oberth or even Constellation. The real problem is that the writers were too lazy to come up with a way for Sisko to still be able to take charge with a captain on the bridge. And the result of their sloth...? A continuity problem.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Perhaps the Equinox' XO was actually a commander or lt. commander, but one of his pips fell off. :-)
------------------ "The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate." -Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
A senior Lieutenant sounds like an acceptable XO rank. After all, this was the rank of the second-in-command of the Defiant when Worf was flying, right? (Jadzia Dax - who else could it have been?) In contrast, it strikes me as odd that Ransom would have four pips. Why not place a Lieutenant Commander in charge of this small vessel, when the Defiant also had one most of the time?
As for the Prometheus in "Second Sight", I always fancied the idea that Seyetlik's wife had served her cookings to the senior officers recently, and all were now spending quality time with the CMO.
Hmm. Perhaps the Prometheus had a heroic captain who liked fisticuffs just as much as Kirk, and Seyetlik met him while hijacking the shuttle? And for once, the captain lost a fight!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Seyetiek disabling the captain is the only explanation I can think of too. He did take out the tractor beam after all.
As far as an Lt, being an XO, it doesn't really bother me that much especially since it was a small science ship. As far as putting a Lt. Comm in charge, Starfleet doesn't seem to give permanent command of a ship to anyone with a rank less than Captain. Worf just commanded certain missions and Dax (who was always a Lt. Comm when Worf was on DS9) was only given command of combat missions during the war. Plus, Janeway said that Ransom was promoted to Captain and given command of the Equinox after making first contact with some race. So maybe there are Lt. Commanders commanding Nova classes out there, but Ransom was apparently already a commander when he was promoted.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Does it actually matter wich rank the XO is, as long as it is higher than the rest of the bridge crewmembers. In one DS9 ep O'Brien said that if Worf (Commander) was injured, he would take over command (He's just a lousy Petty)
------------------ So small, so innocent, so young, so delicately done, grown up in your poison.
"Little Baby Swastikkka" -Skunk Anansie
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
For the sake of accuracy, O'Brien doesn't really say that he's next in line for command if Worf bites it. He is coerced into admitting that there could exist a hypothetical situation where he could be the only one left to command the ship - but this probably assumes that not only Worf but also sixteen unnamed junior officers are dead. The Defiant had an all-officer bridge crew save for O'Brien, with plenty of redshirt, yellowshirt and blueshirt Ensigns around.
Of course, the chain of command on that ship was hopeless from the beginning, with a Bajoran militia Major as the XO at times. Perhaps Starfleet in general uses very few small ships like that, and hasn't quite made up a policy? I could understand that Starfleet considers every starship a potential weapon of mass destruction and only gives them to full Captains, but aboard small ships with a crew of only fifty (or even runabouts, with destructive weapons but only one to three persons under the Captain!), this makes little sense.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
No, the rank of the XO doesn't really matter, but just like any other command position, Starfleet is not going to assign an officer to a position that he is not qualified to fill. IMO, noone under the rank of Lt. Comm has earned the right or has the experience necessary to function as the XO.
I realize that the U.S. Navy sometime gives command of small ships to both grades of Lt. and possibly even to ensigns, but Starfleet does not apparently have a policy like this.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :
ok so the rank of the XO doesnt matter, does anything matter for you to be considered a Senior officer? I mean why does Ensign Kim get to go to the Senior Officers meetings? He's just a lowly Ensign on his first assignment.
-FTM
------------------ funniest TV quote.....
"A small penis is a clean penis" -Matt Real World Hawaii
Posted by Saboc on :
The rank of the XO DOES NOT matter? What? If the rank does not matter, what does? I mean the XO has to hold a high rank in order to be XO I don't care how small the ship is. As for Ensign Kim, hmmm... Well, maybe because the Voyager is small and that he graduated top of his class. Or perhaps the real operations officer was killed or on shore leave when Janeway set out to find Tuvok...
------------------ "...nothing unreal exists..."
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
Well the position of Xo is very important if the Capt bites it the Xo is next in line and self destruct sequence can only be activated by both the Co and Xo with the exception of Voyager which seems to only need Janeways code .
As for Kim he is the Cheif Operations Officer thats why he gets to go to the Dept Head Meetings .
Well in the Novelization of Equinox the Xo is Leiutenant.
------------------ "Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?" ~Homer "The Simpsons"
[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 12, 2000).]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Saboc: For God's sake, I just said that you would have to hold a rank of at least Lt. Com. to be qualified for the position of XO of a starship. It doesn't matter in the sense that there is probably no rule that says you have to be of such and such a rank to be the XO. Lts simply aren't probably considered for those posts.
As far as Ensign Kim's senior officer status goes, he is a senior officer because he is the head of the Operations department. He is the senior Operations officer. This post is perfectly acceptable since it doesn't necessarily require any command experience only a damn fine knowledge of the ship's systems. All ops officers can't be Datas, after all.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Order of rank and chain of command aren't necessarily the same. Granted, one would expect the captain to outrank the XO and the XO to outrank or be equal to the rest of the ship's officers. But it isn't absolutely necessary, especially down the rest of the chain of command. I mean, look at the E-D. Worf was in the middle w/ a rank of lieutenant, while Crusher and Troi were both below him w/ ranks of commander (at the end, anyway, but Troi still outranked him even when she was a LC). This is also why O'Brien would have gotten command of the Defiant before most of the ensigns and lieutenants and such. He may only have been a SCPO, but he was the chief engineer, putting him pretty high up the chain of command.
And, just so this has something to do w/ Voyager... The same applys to Kim. Despite being an ensign, he's the head of the operations department (and, hence, a senior officer). If anything happened, he would certainly get command before LC Bubba in stellar cartography or Lt. Howdy-Doody, head of the holodeck maintenance team, or whatever.
------------------ "The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate." -Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"
Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :
thank you all, that was exactly what I was looking for!! I now understand a why Harry is a goes to the senior bridge meetings
------------------ funniest TV quote.....
"A small penis is a clean penis" -Matt Real World Hawaii
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
This may be over and above since the question seems to have been answered, but any officer put in command, stays in command until relieved by the CO or XO. Therefore, when Kim is given command of the night watch, he outranks everybody else on the ship except Janeway and Chakotay, until thay take command again.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited January 13, 2000).]
I now understand a why Harry is a goes to the senior bridge meetings