Methinks Kai Winn's vision in 'TDDUP' was from the Pagh-Wraiths. She and Dukat getting put together by the Prophets just doesn't work for me.
I'm picturing Winn as a real baddie now. I think the Pagh-Wraiths want her to do something.
They're relying on her faith in the Prophets, if you ask me.
I'm also wondering if Sarah Sisko is a Prophet or not too...
------------------ "Audaces fortuna juvat." "Fortune favours the bold."
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Methinks the same way too. I don't think the prophets would betray someone to join the Pagh Wraiths, unless they had very good reason to do so.
Remember in the Reckoning where the Prophet ignored Winn? After all her service to the people, she gets snubbed by the Prophets for someone who isn't Bajoran. It seems the prophets don't care what others think, they just want someone who will do what they think, hence they chose Sisko.
And if the vision was from the prophets, the question here is "Why?"
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by Federation Shipmaster (Member # 15) on :
Sarah Sisko is a prophet. That was revealed in the second episode of the season, which name I have forgot.
------------------ What bloke invented signatures?
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
"Shadows and Symbols". Actually, Sarah Sisko was possessed by a prophet, in order to give birth to Benjamin. If the was a prophet, then that makes Benjamin half-human, half-non-coporeal-whatever-it-is.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Did she say she was a Prophet? Yes. Did the other Prophets confirm that? Not yet, I don't think; so, being the paranoid and cautious individual I am, I side with "maybe she is; maybe she isn't."
------------------ "Audaces fortuna juvat." "Fortune favours the bold."
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
The prophet said it lived as Sarah long enough to create Benjamin, then it left her. But, seeing as how it seemed to care a lot about Sisko in Penumbra, I guess there may be more to it.
------------------ The Unknown Vulcan
Posted by monkeyboy on :
Opps didn't notic the time of your post Elim.
Was about to ask how come same topic was opened on similair subject.
My Bad. Mine was like 20 minutes after yours oops. ------------------ I did'nt do it.
[This message was edited by monkeyboy on April 16, 1999.]
[This message was edited by monkeyboy on April 16, 1999.]
Posted by Voyager on :
It is most likely that the vision seen by Kai Winn was that of the Pagh-Wraiths. Prophets have never spoken to Winn before, why would they pick now to talk to her and don't even go into how she recognized Dukat/Anjohl as her guide. Sarah Sisko was possesed by a prophet at the time who led her to Ben's father to have Ben. Sisko was created for the sole perpose of being the Prophet's Emissary. The Sarah Prophet, is almost surely a Prophet, because she is the reason the Pagh-Wraith was forced out of the wormhole. I'm leaving room for error because nothing is impossible.
------------------ One silly, twice foolish. -Dr. Weaver, ER
Posted by Chimaera on :
A friend of mine said he could tell the difference between Prophet and Pah-Wraith visions based on something in the background, either some noise or tones or something he saw. Never noticed this myself, I don't know if anyone here noticed this either, but he says that based on this the Kai's vision is indeed that of a pah-wraith.
Anyways, I think that this whole Dukat/Winn thing must be orchestrated by the wraiths, there are just too many coincidences. Although I'm not sure how many details the wraiths told Dukat, and how many he would know through his own experience during the occupation (such as that story about how his (Bajoran)life was saved by a Cardassian misreading the destination, and it turns out that the Kai had bribed him etc).
I don't think Winn is "bad" per say, just that she's so dedicated to serving the prophets that it's blinding her to what she's actually doing, which may have very bad consequences according to the spoilers.
------------------ "Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you." -Commander Riker, USS Enterprise
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Dukat is of the Pagh Wraiths the same way Sisko is of the Prophets (which I have been thinking of all along). Or Dukat really is a Pagh Wraith.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Another thing: Winn did not rightfully earn her spot as Kai. That honour was supposed to go to Vedek Bareil, who was nearly assassinated in a plot that Winn is involved with. Bareil later dropped his bid to be Kai from what amounts to political interference from Winn.
Kai Winn never really felt anything when she saw the wormhole for the first time, while all the other Bajorans did. From what I hear, the vision was telling Winn to step down as Kai, which probably made her snap with seething anger. No doubt that this vision was enginneered by the Pagh-wraiths, willing to capitalize on a person with a very serious grudge.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by Trinculo on :
tahna los: your memory is unclear. kai winn, disturbed by the visit of the Pah-Wraiths, calls for Colonel Nerys. They have a discussion. kai winn says that she has changed and is willing to follow the path of the prophets. colonel nerys suggests that she step down as kai as a means to regain the path-temptation, lust for power had alienated the prophets. kai doesn't want to lose her position and is unwilling to step down. she calls for dukat/anjohl. she asks him for his advice. he tells her to turn her back on the prophets and join the pah-wraiths. the pah-wraiths will give her everthing she wants-the love of the bajorans, the restoration of a bajor freed from outsiders-"a bajor for bajorans". she agrees. visions have a very distinctive quality which is not present with the talk between kai winn and colonel nerys.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
I stand corrected. I only caught the last part of the ep, and when Winn mentioned her refusal to step down as Kai, I figured that it was from the vision she had. It DID make sense at the time. Winn has always been complaining that she does not get the power she wants. Consider her dalliances in past DS9 episodes such as "The Siege", "Shakaar", and perhaps others. Seems that she is only using the position of Kai to her personal means. No wonder why she is so disgusted with the prophets at this point. And it is also no wonder why she could be perceived as very power hungry. I believe it.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by The Excalibur (Member # 34) on :
This is the episode I get on Sat. I'll come back to you after I've seen it.
------------------ Down for Upgrade
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Aha! Suspicions confirmed!
------------------ "Audaces fortuna juvat." "Fortune favours the bold."
Posted by The Excalibur (Member # 34) on :
Greatest Trail yet for the Emissary I think Sara said. This would have made a great story line all by it's self. The battle for Bajor will be fought with more then words or phasers.
------------------ BRAVES FAN
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
Hey, did anyone notice that Damar was sleeping in his quite uncomfortable-looking uniform?
------------------ "I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!" --John Adams, "1776"
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
He probably passed out from drinking all that Kanar
------------------ The Unknown Vulcan
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
'In the greatest epics the hero has to sacrifice himself in one last gallant act for the cause'.
Prophetic words from our Captain perhaps?
------------------ 'Sir, you've been ordered not to take Polermo'
'Ring General HQ, ask them if they want me to give it back'.
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
He has sex in that uniform, too? (What does that dress Weyoun picked up say to you?)
------------------ "I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!" --John Adams, "1776"
Posted by Federation Shipmaster (Member # 15) on :
What if a Cardassian sleeps chest-down? Wouldn't that hurt a little bit?
------------------ What bloke invented signatures?