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Posted by grb on :

Well, Damar says that 7 million cardassian troops have been killed in the war so far. Now, I think we can make an intelligent estimate of the total war casualties.

At least 7 million Jem'Hadar troops must have been killed as well; we see them on the front lines more often than the cardassians. At least 7 million federation troops and 7 million klingon troops have probabaly been killed as well. So, I guess we could put a mininum war sasualty estimate at about 28 million.

Now, for the maximum estiamte: 7 million cardassian troops (so far). Now, we see the Jem"hadar fighting ALOT more often than we see cardassian troops. Maybe 14 million Jem'Hadar killed? Then, of course, most of the war has been faught in federation territory (i.e., DS9, betazed, vulcan, benzar, etc.). So, at least, lets say, 21 million federation troops (to equal the jem'hadar and cardassian troops). Then there are the countless federation civilians caught in the croiss fire. The dominion seemed willing to exterminate the entire population of Earth, so maybe about 40 million civilans (twice as many as the troops). Then, there are probably about 10 million klingon troops (we've seen them go on alot of suicide missions). Then, let's say, 7 milliuon romulan troops. Maybe, by the end of the war, about 2 million breen troops? This is about 100 million deaths. Actually, this might not even be the maximum possible casualty number.

So, either way (mininum or maximum) this war is definitely the bloddiest one any of these alpha quadrant powers have ever faught (except for Earth's nuclear war in ther 21st century, which killed 600 million).

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"How many people does it
take before it becomes
wrong? 6,000? 60,000?
How many people does it
take admiral!?!" -Ambassador
Picard during his command
of the Enterprise-E in the
Ba'ku incident.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

I doubt there have been that many civilian casualties...the Dominion hasn't had much chance to cause any so far.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Walter Barnett: "D-Did that thing just shatter an overpass into dust?"
Donny Finkleberg: "No, I...I think it was an entrance ramp."

Posted by grb on :

Of course the dominion has had time to inflict civilian causalitites. They held Benzar, and may still be holding Betazed. Plus, in "Prodigal Daughter," one of the people in Ezri's family complained that Jem'Hadar had destoried one of their ore shipments, which was a civilian ore shipment. And remeber, we're talking about federation citizens here. Do you think they would just stand by while their world was taken? I'm sure at least civilians on colonies and member worlds invaded by the dominion would take up arms against the invaders. And after the invasion, at least some of them would try to rebel.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Oh, come on. This is the wimpy Federation, not the Bajorans or Cardassians or anything. After defeating the fleets protecting them, Betazed and Benzar were probably easily taken over. And I can't imagine there are many people in ore freighters.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Walter Barnett: "D-Did that thing just shatter an overpass into dust?"
Donny Finkleberg: "No, I...I think it was an entrance ramp."

Posted by Trinculo on :

Wheter the number of dead is in the tens of millions or the hundreds of millions, a better estimate of the number of dead and their effect on each of the Alpha Quadrant nation-states is by gauging the total population of each nation-state and divide by the total number of dead. Based on this, I would say that the Federation has suffered a low percentage of deaths. I do however believe that the Cardassians and the Klingons are suffering the greatest percentage of loss of life. The Romulans are suffering the least loss of life.
There is no canonical evidence to support the existence of resistance movements. Then again, the full list of captured Federation worlds is unknown and they are not mentioned often.
The writers have chosen deliberately not to include facts about the war. I suppose that fandom will provide answers and facts about this war.

Posted by grb on :

Wimpy federation? r u sure? It is the United Federation of Planets. Its entire population is made up of scientists, artists, educators, and exploreres. The scientists, artists, and educators might not start a major revolution, but the exploreres (such as the colonists) would for sure start one. Look how often federation citizens have started rebellions to fight injustice: the resistance group suring the dominion occupation of DS9 (well, jake was the only federation CITIZEN, but all of the others were somehow connected to the federation) and then there was the Maquis (perhaps the greatest rebellion in recent history. The dominion was willing to eliminate the entire population of Earth to stop a rebellion from occuring. Many of the citizens of the federation might not participate in a rebellion, but a few percent (where a few percent is in the hundreds of millions) would for sure start a rebellion. BTW, most of this war has been fought in federation space, so the federation would probabaly have the most csualities, but u r right, not the highest percent of their population dead.

Posted by Trinculo on :

My apologies,
When I refer to resistance movements, I spoke of the time period 2373 to 2375. I didn't mean to exclude the Maquis (who were eliminated by the D-C Alliance).

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Ooh, scientists, artists, and educators. Yup, they've got a great track record for opposing large militaries.

Seriously, from what we've seen, the Dominion allows general autonomy for its planets...the inhabitants on Betazed, Benzar, etc. might decide that it would be in their best interest to not do anything until the end of the war.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Walter Barnett: "D-Did that thing just shatter an overpass into dust?"
Donny Finkleberg: "No, I...I think it was an entrance ramp."

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Nope, no resistance from Federation Citizens.

Because they banned private ownership of phasers.

"Oh, the Federation will never be invaded, nobody hunts, everybody has enough.. what do you need personal phasers for?"

*smug grin*

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

Posted by grb on :

Well, they were right. No one every invaded for over two centuries. And after this war, probabaly no one will invade again for another two centuries. Besides, they could always make weapons when they are occupied. And of course there would be resistance mvoements. The resistance movement on DS9 saved the aplha quadrant. Resistance movement on occupied worlds could do alot to free those worlds. Afterall, these federation people are rather smart.

Posted by Simon on :

I think there is fairly heavy resistance against the Dominion on Betazed and other occupied worlds. Look at how peace loving and spiritual Bajorans became fighters during the Cardassian occupation. I do however think a heavily armed resistance is unlikely, I would be very surprised if the Dominion couldn't spot a phaser or other high energy weapon from orbit.

First of Two: I think it would be better if such disagreements were kept to the flameboards.

Posted by Chimaera on :

The only mention of Federation casualties I can remember are the casualty lists that Sisko posts, and these seem to range from between 1000 to 2000 weekly. This seems very low, could this only be officers? Or starship crews perhaps, not those on the ground?

On another note, I remember Guinan saying in that episode where the Enterprise C came into the future ("Yesterday's Enterprise" I think) that something like 40 billion people had already died in that war. Although that war had gone on much longer than this one, it also involved only 2 AQ powers. So it stands to reason that this war, involving 5 AQ powers (including Breen now) plus the dominion could be inflicting very high casualties, I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers for all races, military and civilian, was pushing the one billion mark in the very near future.

First of Two: Possible but unlikely. Giving every citizen a phaser wouldn't help if the Dominion used orbital bombardment though , nor would civilians stand much of a chance against the Jem Hadar (the words "turkey shoot" would apply). Of course, if you need a phaser to go hunting, it stands to reason that you're not a very good hunter (Worf can hunt with a spear after all)

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"Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you."
-Commander Riker, USS Enterprise

Posted by grb on :

$$$$$$$"What You Leave Behind" spoliers$$$$$$
&&&
spolirer space....
$
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$
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In "What you Leave Behind," they say the war casualties are at 800 million and still getting higher. So, i guess that;s the end of the argument.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

*SIGH*

Nobody understands my sense of humor...
Guess that's cause nobody expects a Borg to have one.

Actually, I beg to differ on one point. The Dominion isn't likely to land a BILLION Jem'Hadar on a planet. Therefore, even a force of better-armed, better equipped Jemmies won't stand up to a determined, armed, entire planetary population, even a not-very well-trained one. (Colonies, being much smaller, are another story.) I suppose it would depend on what you considered "acceptable losses," determining whether to fight or not. Pacifists (like Vulcans) will give ground immediately, (though they may work covertly), Die-Hard folks (many Terrans, Klingons) won't give an inch.

Q: How many Jem'Hadar does it take to subjugate the Klingon home world?
A: All of them.

Of course, you're entirely right about orbital bombardment.. IF they weren't concerned about holding the planet intact. And then, there's always the plague the Founders made.. whatever it's called, I forget.

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :

The Quickening.

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Garak: Interesting. You saved the day by destroying the world.
Bashir: I bet they didn't teach you that in the Obsidian Order.

-Deep Space Nine, "Our Man Bashir."

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I wouldn't call the Vulcans pacifists. They tend to choose peace because it's more logical. But it isn't always more logical. In which case I would not want to have to face a bunch of calmly calculating Vulcan soldiers.

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"Fishing promotes a clean mind, healthy body and leaves no time for succumbing to Communistic or Socialistic propaganda."
--
Ivar Hemmings, chairman, South Bend Bait Company

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

I can just see it now; Tuvok after getting his leg phasered off

*Tuvok speak*
"It appears I have lost motor neuron faculties in my right leg, and by my calculations I am losing approximately 0.03 litres of blood per minute. I predict the onset of extreme pain in a few moments, followed by lapses into momentary unconsciousness, and most likely death.
However, I shall endeavour to complete this game of Keltoe that myself and Mr. Kim started, just before he died." (twitches a bit, then moves a Keltoe rod)

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If no-one will play with me, then I'm going home,and I'm bringing the inflatible with me.