Can anyone tell me what Empok Nor actually is? i missed that episode of DS9 and i don't know what it is.... What was it's purpose? Where did they find it? Why was it abandoned?
------------------ Dream on...in the end...dreams are everything...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
$ $ $ $ $ $ Empok Nor is a Cardassian station with the same design as DS9 (or Terok Nor to the Cardies). I believe they said it was an old mining station (I guess all the Nor series stations were designed for mining) but they never really said why it was abandoned. I'm sure they said the system it was in but I don't remember. It's a long way off the front lines in the Dommie War, though.
Also, they didn't find it, they always knew it was there. I guess they just never thought of using it for spare parts until "Empok Nor" (DS9).
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 15, 1999).]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
And of course, there is the question of just what "Nor" means. Is it Cardassian for "space station", or a particular class of space station? I could probably find out if I checked the tech. manual, but it's all of a half a room away...
------------------ "I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go." -- John Linnell
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh, and my memory is a bit fuzzy, but presumably Empok Nor was abandoned for the same reason as Terok Nor. The Cardassian Union could no longer support its then current state of expansion. (It might also be connected to the UFP/Union treaty.)
------------------ "I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go." -- John Linnell
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Perhaps "Nor" has nothing to do with space stations or even station classes as such. It might be that the station orbiting Bajor is "The Seat of Terror" and the one abandoned in seemingly empty space is "The Seat of Horror" or something. Or then "The Diamond of the Sky" and "The Ruby of the Sky". That is, "Nor" might be a very mundane, everyday word of Cardassian language unrelated to space constructions.
Or perhaps it's a common surname for celebrities after whom space stations are named. Is there an Eroom Nor out there, too?
While there clearly is a star next to Empok Nor, it seems there is no planet nearby. Perhaps the Cardassians were towing the station towards a conquered planet, and had to give up that planet before towing was complete? Or perhaps the idiots tried to mine another of those disappearing planets so common in Trek?
I don't think Empok Nor was specifically identified as a mining platform in "Empok Nor". Perhaps the design is common for various Cardassian space platforms, and Empok Nor was intended as a deep space observation post of some sort? Or, since there was that regimental patch, perhaps it was a floating deep space garrison located near a contested border (a border that has moved since)?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I agree that Nor, Empok, and Terok may not be "space station words" But the fact that both have the word Nor in them suggests to me that the other two words are some sort of numerical identification.
And I don't specifically remember if they said what the purpose of the station was, but I think Nog said that it had the exact same layout as DS9 in "The Magnificent Ferengi" (DS9).
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 16, 1999).]
Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
$$$
From my memory, I remember hearing that Empok Nor was abandonded by the Cardassians a year before "Empok Nor" took place.
------------------ He can't be unoriginal The way I feel is sexual The way I feel is sexual.
He can't be just intellectual The way I feel is sexual The way I feel is sexual When you're next to me.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
I have to wonder why the Cardies just abandon perfectly intact stations, for any race to come by and use as their own. Why didn't they destroy Terok Nor before they left Bajor, instead of letting Starfleet set up base in it? The Cardies had two opportunities to do this (before "Emissary" and in "Sacrifice of Angels").
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Two reasons I can think of.
One, they didn't necessarily think they would have to abandon the station forever.
Two, the station really had no value for the Federation. We know that the Cardassians pulled almost everything they considered useful or sensitive from the station, and booby-trapped the rest. DS9 certainly became valuable later, with the discovery of the wormhole. And the Cardassians did try to destroy it then, but it was too late.
------------------ "I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go." -- John Linnell
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
A third reason would be that the retreat was simply too fast-paced for anybody to be able to take responsibility for such a major decision. Apparently, the decision to withdraw was far from unanimous, and the military would have wanted to stay put while the Detapa council ordered it to pull out. Probably Gul Dukat didn't know of the withdrawal two days before the fact, and was in denial throughout the whole operation...
At least, this is what episodes like "The Wire" suggest. Of course, the brave Bajorans claim they drove the Cardassians out. But if that was the reason, the occupying forces would probably have been better prepared for the withdrawal. I suspect the real reason was the recent fiasco in "Chain of Command" and the subsequent loss of political power of the Central Command.
And Empok Nor was probably abandoned because of the Klingon attacks of "Way of the Warrior". Either these had destroyed the planetary mines that fed the station, or then had cut off Cardassian access to the star system (either through an actual siege, or by destroying too much tonnage for the ore hauling to be possible or profitable any more). I suspect indirect influence, because the Klingons would probably have taken over and/or destroyed the station if they had actually invaded this system.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I love the Klingon explanation although I would suggest a fourth theory. The Cardassian socio/religious structure considers it taboo to to destroy structures that may be used for plotlines of species in need of them.
Seriously, I thought everything looked way too neatly stacked and organized on Empok Nor. Crap should've been thrown all over. Of course, if they were in the middle of loading cargo for a withdrawl from the station when the Klingons attacked...
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I just wanted to praise Timo for his sharp sight and profound thoughts. No matter which thread I enter, Timo was already there and there's everything explained to everyone's satisfaction and nothing left to say for me.
I always wondered why the Cardassians abandon their space stations so easily, and I think it's obvious now. I only wonder why the two stations are so close to each other, as given by the range of the Dominion transporter in "Covenant" (2ly, IIRC), unless Empok Nor has been towed to its present position as a compensation after DS9 had been abandoned.
------------------ "Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions." (VOY: "Infinite Regress")
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe they towed it to somewhere relatively unimportant - thinking there is nothing there of use to warrant a space station...
also in Empok nor - things WERE everywhere - and everything was booby-trapped and airlocks non-operational.
Andrew
------------------ "Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I remember that stuff was everywhere, it just all seemed a bit too stacked and tidy. I mean yeah there was stuff all over the halls. I guess I wanted more of an air of terror. This was probably one of the most tense episodes I remember waiting for the Cardassians to attack. I guess I just wanted more of an "Aliens" feel.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :
Maybe it wasn't abandoned. The occupants could have killed each other because of that virus that Garak got on board Empok Nor. It is possible that he wasn't the first to contract it.
------------------ The line must be drawn here, this far, no further. Picard, First Contact
The line has to be drawn here, this far and no further. Quark, Dogs of War
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That's a good thought. Although I'm almost positive they said it was abandoned both in "Empok Nor" and in "Covenant". Also, no half mangled corps are seen strewn about. At least not until O'Brien's team boards the station :-)
They also said that the super soldiers were only left there when the station was abandoned. I don't think if the soldiers had killed everybody, they would've locked themselves up in those stasis units.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 21, 1999).]
Posted by warbird5 on :
Empok Nor orbits on it side like Uranus, doesn't it? It's probably dismantled right now by the occupying forces. maybe they should tow it back to Bajor and upgrade it like they did to DS9. then bajor will be like the 3rd most defended system in the alpha quadrant after Earth and the klingon homeworld.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Actually, Warbird, there's a thread going right now about up and down and "on its side" over in Gen. Dis. There really is no tilt in space. It's all relative. They always showed Empok Nor at an angle to accentuate the fact the the station is a scary, forboding, broken down place. I don't think they ever actually showed it orbiting anything either. Kinda weird.
It would take a massive effort not only to tow the station (probably at least a dozen ships) but also to refit it. It took the crews of DS9 years to refit their station and it's still not totally done.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
Well, Federation starships are always refited, but then again they don't have the mass Empok Nor or DS9 has, yet.
------------------ He can't be unoriginal The way I feel is sexual The way I feel is sexual.
He can't be just intellectual The way I feel is sexual The way I feel is sexual When you're next to me.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OK I haven't seen What You Leave Behind so don't spoil anything - but how about Towing it through the wormhole and plonking it on the other side.
------------------ "Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, again, they'd have to use probably a dozen ships to tow it and would have to move at impulse speeds (low ones at that). It might take years to get it to the wormhole. I suppose they could fix it up first and move it like they moved DS9 in "Emissary". But that didn't seem like it would work all that well for long travel. They enough trouble getting DS9 to the Denorias Belt.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
Yet, moving the station would not be impossible. Starfleet would just have to repair the SIF's, the IDF's, and the impulse systems and have a small starship nearby to transport out the crew onboard the station in case all hell breaks loose.
But I wouldn't be personally onboard Empok Nor when it is moved, I'd be onboard that ship nearby!
------------------ Sometimes I run Sometimes I hide Sometimes I'm scared of you But all I really want is to hold you tight Treat you right, be with you day and night Baby all I need is time
