I'm not sure where to put this thread, maybe Designs and Creativity? But this is not a starship design, etc. but a discussion on the hierarchical relationships of Starfleet departments, offices and agencies.
This is a Flow Chart Diagram to illustrate a plausible picture of how Starfleet is organised:
It isn't entirely finished, it's an Alpha version for now, and I haven't put all the departments in little boxes yet... The image comes from this page on The Federation:
The idea was inspired by Lance Nutter (www.thetrkker.org) who had entered into a similar endeavour.
A lot of this is speculative, obviously, as there are gaps and uncertainties, which I've attempted to fill in by studying traditional Naval department relationships. I've also included all the known/established departments that I personally know of, some may sound obscure like the Starfleet Regulatory Agency, but they for example exist - they're health and safety people and are mentioned in the TNG Tech Manual, and there are other such examples in the chart besides...
Thoughts...?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Well, I think I would try to stay out of the Delta Fighter Wing in fleets 1-10... The very bottom of the hierarchy... Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I'm thinking this is more general, and not technical. *move*
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Section 31 probably shouldn't be in this chart. IIRC, they answered to no-one, and the ordinary Intelligence guys probably know nothing about them.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Indeed. And most of those engineering groups, like ASDB or Yoyodyne, probably wouldn't feature quite that prominently in the organization chart - for all we know, they are purely civilian organizations with just a business association with Starfleet.
And if we want to imply that Starfleet Medical Academy is subjugate to Starfleet Medical Division and not just part of Starfleet Academy, then there probably should be a SF Engineering Academy and a SF Security Academy similarly listed. And perhaps several varieties of SF Science Academies, too. (Have we ever heard of a SF Medical Academy canonically?)
Yard functions might be separate from Starbase operations, too: there could be yards without starbases and starbases without yards, and a definite need for separate operating organizations.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Thanks for the suggestions, I've since updated it with a slighty better chart, with boxes:
Yes, we have heard of the Medical Academy, as for others, I think there are indeed a number of other establishments, such as The Daystrom Institute, but would they come under the wing of Starfleet? I don't know, but I plan to continuingly revise the chart..
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I don't recall ever hearing of a Medical Academy. Usually, when Bashir's education was being discussed, they said "Starfleet Medical"
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Good work, however I think you should make it clear which era this chart is supposed to represent since I seriously doubt that UESPA is still around in the 24th century or that Galaxy wings were around before the mid 24th century.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
I know that the Twelfth Fleet was all but destroyed, but surely it would be rebuilt in time and therefore should be included with Eleven also?
Otherwise - very good work. Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Perhaps you're right, The Tom, perhaps, Starfleet Medical is the Medical Academy. I can't find a mention of it either, but I was sure I have heard a reference to this. Maybe I'm wrong.
The chart is not meant to be an LCARS screen or anything, hence there's no reason to omit sensitive departments like Section 31, and it's not intended to reflect any era, but I suspect it has more in common with the 24th century.
UESPA Reverend? Just speculative. I'd like to think they are still around in some capacity. I hypothesised here that they are responsible for deep space surveyance probes and the like...
akb1979, I don't recall a 12th or 11th fleet, and they're not mentioned in the Encyclopia, when the others are...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I don't think the suggestion was to remove Section 31 because it wouldn't be on an official chart. I think the problem is that you show them as a division of SF Intel. If you're going to include them, they should be in a box all by themselves, connected to nothing.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
I actually deliberately put Section 31 to the side of Starfleet Intel, rather than beneath it, hence suggesting it was one of their departments. Perhaps that is a good idea though, to put them completely by themselves somewhere...
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Fleets are not always numbered sequentially. We may have the 1st, 3rd, 7th, 8th, 9th, 72nd, & 104th.
Things like Yoyodyne & your "Blue Star Engineering" are private contractor firms like Electric Boat or Bath Iron works & are therefore noninclusive.
A "Galaxy wing" is probably not a "real" term. There are no organizational squadrons for carriers like there are for destroyers (DESRONs) & subs (SUBRONs).
As outdated as many may think it is, FJ did actually do a pretty fair job in his organizational flowchart. Another place to look is the USN organizational chart.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Starfleet Medical Academy is canonically referred to. I believe it's "The Alternate", though I'm not concrete on the episode title.
In the episode where the El-Aurian guest star mucks up the Laws of Propability. Bashir and O'Brien take part in rousing games of space raquetball. Bashir mentions in the early part of the episode that he kicked the crap out of everybody at the Starfleet Medical Academy and whatnot. Watched it this morning.
Now I also remember him referring to the medical instutition in which he studied as Starfleet Medical, which must then be the same thing, though I have no episodes readily available to confirm this.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I wanted to get nitpicky, because your thread has intrigued me, but most of my nitpicks have already been put forward. But, anyway, mostly I'm curious about sources. Have we actually heard of a Security Council? Or Joint Chiefs? I don't recall the former, and I'm rather sure the latter has never been used. I think.
Why is Starfleet's version of OSHA in charge of the Judge Advocate General's office? And wouldn't colonial administration be a civilian affair?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
To answer these in turn, Shik: I originally drew the format for the 10 Fleets from Lance's original chart, in which there were Ten Fleets (as seen on DS9 - although we don't know for sure if there are more than 10). But it would make sense to have the entire fleet broken into organized sub-fleets in the event of war. If the fleet comprises 6000 (which is a fair guess), that would figure would be divided into 10 fleets of 600, coincidentally the same number of ships that made up Sisko's taskforce in 'Sacrifice of Angels'.
And we know, for example, that during TNG, in the event of a new sustained Cardassian war the Ent-D was pre-assigned to a Fleet to protect systems adjacent to, and including, Minos Korva. This could also be one such 'sub-Fleet'. I think the numbers are preset and organized, and on one of the charts you linked to, the US Nazy doesn't go higher than the 7th Fleet, from what I could see...
I don't know about Galaxy Wings, most likely they are assigned as and when in the event of an assembled taskforce going to war.
OnToMars: Thanks for confirming that. Starfleet Medical has been referred to many times, I think first of all when Dr Crusher left for a year to take a position at Starfleet Medical.
Sol, although Starfleet Security is a canon institution (the last known head of which was Admiral Ranar), I don't know myself whether there is a specific entity called the Starfleet Security Council. Again, it's just speculative, like the Joint Chiefs, which came from Lance's old chart.
The JAG part is misleading, I've drawn it up incorrectly. All those three boxes are meant to branch individually from Legislative Affairs. The Jag division and the Regulatory Agency are completely separate departments.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Starfleet may have an agency in charge of deep space probes, but I doubt it would be UESPA. That would be like putting NASA or the FBI into a United Nations table of organization. Of course, it's never been clear what (if any) local government remains in place when a world joins the Federation. From what little we've seen, Vulcan seems to be the only one to maintain government agencies definitely separate from those of the UFP.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
WEll, UESPA wouldnt be a Federation agency, but still existing in the 2260s, it may be favored when it came to exploration activities. Similar to how even though the United Nations comprises many many countries with their own military, when there is a UN military decision, certain militaries are favored sometimes. Its a growing pain that may be resolved one day as the coalition becomes closer. i.e, as the Federation gets knit better (by TNG era) its own agencies will become the forefront, causing the individual member agencies to become less important. Thats why UESPA kind of faded into the backgorund. There was the Federation Starfleet becoming more powerful until UESPA wasnt needed to help organize or support the organization
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Just a few questions (and some sort of answers, though mostly opinions):
1) How big is Starfleet? As the Red Admiral said I can't see the fleet being any bigger than 6000, taking into account stuff from TNG and DS9. But didn't that 600 ship fleet in 'Sacrifice...' include Klingon ships?
2) How do 'local' space fleets fit in with Starfleet? Well, we've seen several different registry prefixes (NAR, NSP(?) etc.) and I think it's been pointed out that the terran ships have NAR and other registry prefixes have been applied to ships of other races. Obviously these 'local' spacecraft would include civilian freighters and private craft, as well as science vessels owned by UESPA and other planetary government agencies, not to mention private companies and perhaps even universities. I would imagine that these ships would be used to augment Starfleet facilities and also be used in lower risk areas than those Starfleet operates in. Also I wonder if the planetary defence systems of the Federation's 'core' worlds (Earth, Vulcan, Andor etc) would also be provided by local defense forces (perhaps using ex-Starfleet ships).
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I think a little bigger than 6000 ships of the line, but i think that support vessels (like freighters, tenders and runabouts) must outnumber the main ships. If every starbase and the large starships have runabouts, you can see how they would add up (and explain where 75000 NCC numbers went to)
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Yeah, I agree about the support ships, but would they be part of the combat fleets or have their own organisation and then be attached to the fleets?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
It's an interesting point...
But as for the size of the fleet I always estimated 6000- 8000 ships. This includes all Starfleet's military ships, as well as hospital ships, transports, and other such support ships.
Whatever ships though have a USS prefix it would signify to me that it is a Starfleet ship. SS, NAR, NSP etc. are all Federation ships, of course, but fall outside direct Starfleet control. I very much doubt these ships would be combat effective, and as they're not under Starfleet juristiction they would not participate in any of Starfleet's military engagements.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Fixed some branching problems and a spelling error.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: 1) How big is Starfleet? As the Red Admiral said I can't see the fleet being any bigger than 6000, taking into account stuff from TNG and DS9. But didn't that 600 ship fleet in 'Sacrifice...' include Klingon ships?
As many here know, Ronald D. Moore said that the producers of DS9 operated under the assumption that Starfleet had 8,000 ships at the beginning of the Dominion War. That's close enough to canon for me.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)