TrekToday has posted pics of pics here. Lookie! Admiral Janeway!
Rear or Vice?
Mark
Edited to include possible spoiler warnings
[ September 30, 2002, 22:27: Message edited by: Tahna Los ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Probably a vice-admiral. Everyone's a vice-admiral.
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
tough to tell... looks like two pips to me but the perspective could be hiding a third.
two would make more sense right?
nice set of pics by the way.. go to the creation site to see the whole lot.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Hasn't Picard been a Captain longer.... I wonder if he has turned down promotion???
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
he has.. in TNG season 1.
we've had the whole different careers, different ranks discussion before, concerning Janeway's admiralty. Johnny Picard wields his power better as a captain, and has chosen to stay there, while Kathy fits better navigating a chair. plus she was a media relations move promoting the returning hero. plus its safer to have her in an office where they can keep an eye on her.
BTW, check Willy Riker wearin his four pips!
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
there is no message here (other than this message) because i realized that O Captain Mike Captain said what i was going to say much more succinctly than i was going to say it when he said
quote:plus its safer to have her in an office where they can keep an eye on her.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
So,
I guess Troi wears clothes at her wedding - or soon thereafter.
But, of course, we knew that - gravity, time, PG, etc.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Plus Picard has had some sage advice from one Captain James T. Kirk.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by O Captain Mike Captain: two would make more sense right?
Depends on the year. It would make sense one or two years after 2377. But in 2377 only one pip makes sense.
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
hm.. i thought that at this point, one-pip flag rank (commodore) was skippable or something.
do not pass go, head straight to rear admiral
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Toadkiller: So,
I guess Troi wears clothes at her wedding - or soon thereafter.
But, of course, we knew that - gravity, time, PG, etc.
Plot spoilers!
After their clothed ceremony on Earth, the Enterprise-E is heading to Betazed for a nude version. Much joking about Worf's uncomfortableness. That's when they get drawn into the action of the movie.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
And finally she's in decent threads! God that old uniform got boring.
I'll bet they had to explain away the ditching of phase torpedoes and superfuckablative armor with something like "The romulans and klingons got jelaous and said we would be too mighty so we erased the tech because mankind wasn't ready for it!" Pussies...
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
or they just drank the memories of the voyager tech away ["they" being the writers].
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
maybe the Ferengi stole it without anyone knowing it was them?
who knows what twisted thoughts go through writer's minds.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Uh, why's Riker in uniform when Troi isn't? Is Frakes no longer quite as open with his cleavage as in the good old days of "Angel One"?
Too bad about those two pips. I agree, one would make much more sense. Do we have a stardate for "Nemesis", though? Perhaps it is 2379 or something now, after all?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I would guess two reasons for Troi being in a dress while Riker is in a dress uniform:
1) The Star Trek reason: Troi is a woman, and from what I understand, women, even in the Trek universe, like to wear frilly things at their weddings, where men pretty much are happy to wear whatever is in their closet. A dress uni is pretty much like a tuxedo, anyway...
2) The real world reason: Sirtis is a woman and not too hard to look at. Showing a little skin for the fan boys on screen never hurt opening weekend.
Have we ever seen a one-pip admiral? I know we've had this concersation before, but I don't remember what we came up with. My guess is that the PTB feel one pip will be too hard to see. But that's just a guess.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Have we ever seen a one-pip admiral?
Well, during Season 1 admirals wore a gold braid with pips beneath the braid. We've seen two Admirals (Jameson and Quinn) who only had the braid but no pips. That'd be a one-pip admiral in the later seasons.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe once Voyager/Janeway actually made it back to Earth - the future tech disappeared cause future Janeway didn't exist!?!
Maybe Braxton appeared and removed it.
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
nah, while i accept that Kathy could conceivably make Admiral, i doubt she'd be promoted again within a couple years. the date wrangling doesnt work. And i doubt theres a correlation betwen the season 1 admiral braid and the later admiral pippage.. too many uncertainties.
besides, it was clearly stated that Quinn was a 'senior admiral' (in 'Conspiracy') and placing him at the bottem of the totem seems to contradict that.
i think in a novel (ooh listen to you guys shake) they simply said that Commodore was an exceedingly rare rank and was, most often times skipped.
By the way, the Braxton story would actually be a fascinating epilogue for the Voyager series.. Braxton appears and grabs the technology.. they probably could get a great story out of that (anyone read the New Frontier comic 'Double Time'?. lotsa good Braxton stuff there...)
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:besides, it was clearly stated that Quinn was a 'senior admiral' (in 'Conspiracy') and placing him at the bottem of the totem seems to contradict that.
Beverly Crusher was just a Commander but Head of Starfleet Medical during Season 2. So, Quinn can be a Rear Admiral (lh) but nevertheless a senior admiral.
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
i dont see the analogy you are making. Beverly was assigned a position, not a rank.
to put it simply: i dont think the season 1 admiral ranks mean what you think they do.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye they sold Janeway on a "special" rank: complete with a tiny windowless office...
Now that she's a federation celebrity, they probably send her on the "goodwill tours" of the federation to show the flagg.
As for the novels: I really liked Data being a Commedore in Imzadi : It made me think of Commedore 64 Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
...or mabye Janeway is heading up Starfleet R&D to try to replicate the future tech left behind by the future Janeway.
....or mabye the "future Janeway" was smart enough to build in some kind of self destruct into the Transphasic torpedos and armor generators so as not to pollute the timeline.
...or mabye it's an oversight by the costume department. Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Well, Quinn could be a "senior" by physical age and service years, never mind his rank or position.
And Janeway... Well, she's got Kirk's flag rank now. Whatever mechanism propelled Kirk past the one-pip rank could be at work here, too. "If you successfully pull off a deep space mission five years or longer in duration, skip O-7 and go straight to O-8", or something like that.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Let's see... as I understand the rank of Commodore (a one pip admiral, right?), it is the command of a small fleet of vessels. When Picard commanded the fleet in "Redemption", he was serving as a Commodore. Yes, it was a temproary position, and perhaps that kind of command structure isn't in general use anymore. However, the rank might still exist for use in specialized circumstances, such as war time, or if there is an on going conflict in a specific sector. Since Janeway's duties possibly don't involve that kind of command, but focus more on administration, she was promoted immediately, or very quickly, to Rear Admiral. Just a guess, but it makes sense to me.
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
well TNG is reflecting the modern makeup of the USN, which in the past few decades phased out the rank of Commodore and instituted two grades of Rear Admiral (one star and two star)
but since they never show one pip, i assume that no one actually gets that grade, but it could be reserved for Commodores, that being the honorary title granted a Captain who has a fleet command (the difference being that 'commodore' in that sense is a title or position, not a rank.. i.e. if there are more than one captain present, the senior/commanding captain will be referred to as 'commodore' but not have any accompanying change in grade)
BTW, i think the precedent set by Kirk is that this rank is skippable, since both Kirk and Janeway did exactly that, but other officers stop at that rank to to unknown qualities of their specialization/career.
Even though TNG has done away with the rank commodore, i'd like to imagine that its still possible to see one from time to time (the novel reference i recall was from one of 'Shatner's' novels, Riker met a commodore and mused that the rank was exceedingly rare, most officers skipped it, it wasnt required, but it was still possible)
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Just a little note: in the napoleonic RN commodore wasn't a rank, it was an appointment. Like Picard's stint in Redemption, it was temporary; once the task had been completed the officer reverted to Captain. Despite this a Commodore had a different rank insignia to a captain and a broard pendant (some sort of flag) to distinguish hm. Starfleet could have a similar arrangement.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:well TNG is reflecting the modern makeup of the USN, which in the past few decades phased out the rank of Commodore and instituted two grades of Rear Admiral (one star and two star)
I agree on that. This is also reflected by the rank pips. The TNG pips have more in common with the USN rank stripes than with the TOS rank stripes:
TNG_____________________USN full pip___________________full stripe hollow pip________________half stripe
Therefore I presume that the Admiral's braid is comparable with the four stripes close together of USN admirals. In "Conspiracy" we've seen Aaron with braid and two pips and the Vulcan admiral with braid and one pip.
quote:BTW, i think the precedent set by Kirk is that this rank is skippable
What precedent? His 5-year-mission ended 2270 and maybe he was promoted to Commodore directly after coming home. And before TMP (was it 2272 or 2273) he was promoted to Rear Admiral.
quote:the novel reference i recall was from one of 'Shatner's' novels
That reference was rather confusing. One time it was a rank, then a position, then both. I got the impression, Shatner (or whoever wrote the book) didn't know what he was writing about.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
In any case, TOS had Commodores mainly in adminstrative postings - starbase commanders and the like. So that won't really explain why Kirk and Janeway, both apparently desk jockeys, would skip the rank.
Of course, TMP could have taken place later than 2272-73, giving more time for the double promotion. And "Nemesis" could also take place later than we think. It's up to future Trek episodes and movies to give a more exact fix of the dates of those two movies.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
If we were going to see a Commodore in TNG era - would Sisko have been promoted to Commodore in his Starbase stint during the season 6 arc?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Doubtful since it became quite clear that Ross was in general command of that whole area. But I would argue that when Sisko commanded a fleet from the Defiant, in which Ross wasn't present, he was in fact serving as a commodore, having command over the other captain's in the fleet But, as has been pointed out before...it was just a temporary position.
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