For some unfathomable reason, I've been watching the rerun of the execrable "Hide and Q" on TNN this evening.
And Q made a most perplexing comment: "(to Worf) Drink not with thine enemy, Worf? How very Klingon. [...] (to Riker) It's no wonder you conquered them!" Or something to that effect.
Now obviously Q was trying to get some kind of reaction out of our intrepid heroes, but that seems a very weird kind of assertion to make. And in the context of the conversation, Q's usual barbs have a firm basis in fact.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I always took that comment to be a not-so-gentle ribbing. Q's always insulting Worf one way or another whether it's calling him "microbrains," asking him if he's eaten any good books lately, or making him a Merry Man of Sherwood.
If you really wanted to, I guess you could interpret that to be a reference to some future war in the Federation's timeline.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Couldn't we just assume the obvious? He's trying to provoke a reaction from Worf...so he portrays the Klingon alliance with the Federation as a form of cultural conquest. *shrug*
Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
yes, some might make remarks that we 'conquered' Russia at the end of the cold war.. cuz they folded up their communist shop and opened up mcdonald's... it's semantics and terminology, with a strong basis in propaganda.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
He probably meant it in the same sense that McCoy said that Vulcan had been conquered.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
...or Worf pissed him off, so he changed history/reality so that the Klingon homeworld was only two day's warp from Earth at warp four and somehow those nearsighted klingins had never stumbled on the Sol system.
Moral to the story: don't piss off Q.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
did they specifically mention Q'OnoS in Broken Bow? Maybe the Klingon homeworld - or Klaang's home was another Planet in the Klingon Empire?
Did Klingons interact with pre-warp civilisations? How ruined would their development be from Klingon occupation? Maybe that the Vulcan's noticed the warp signature first was a blessing in disguise - otherwise the Klingons might have noticed!?! I know there was Errand of Mercy - but the Fed's beamed down too - did they pose as being on the same planet to the Organians? (before they realised they weren't just a simple people).
Andrew
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
I'm afraid they did mention Q'OnoS specifically.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Pre-warp Earth seems to be Vulcan territory, and the Vulcans are quite powerful, I don't think the Klingons really ever got a chance to get to us.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And while we're on the subject, let's slag off Insurrection! And them saying "Lithium" in "Mudd's Angels".
I go with Simon here. Perhaps "Conquerered" gets an additional meaning post 2200, to mean "we made friends with them and they are a bit nicer to us now".
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
Taking ST VI into account I think that we could figure that some Klingons would consider the alliance to be a less than ideal situation somewhat akin to being dominated by the UFP.
"They won't even let us KILL anybody!!"
Sounds like a good way to pick on Worfie...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I remember way back when, where those three brightest 'stars' on the Federation Flag were supposed to be Earth, Vulcan and The Klingons... It was probably just some fanboy crap, though. Or that is what they thought back in season 1 TNG. Who designed that flag? Was it Mr. Okuda... maybe we could get his view on that statement... or statements... In Early TNG were the Klingons supposed to be part of the Federation etc.?
Andrew
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
When the idea of a "Klingon Marine" was thrown about in the pre-TNG creative process, I think it was indeed assumed the Klingons would be UFP members. Bob Justman was one of the strongest advocates of the concept. But even he probably had to compromise with getting Worf included in the cast. And the controversy would mean that just about everybody involved with TNG would try and insert a comment about Worf.
So the likeliest case is that everybody had wildly differing ideas about Worf and Klingons throughout the first season, and some of that got used, some did not. The character and his background were set by "Sins of the Fathers", but probably not much before, and the unused Worf concepts were then abandoned for good.
"Heart of Glory" was the first to show us non-Worf Klingons, of course, and there the Klingon symbol stood proudly beside the UFP one. Clearly, the Klingons weren't considered a conquered race at that point any more.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Oh, they were conquered all right.....by the Federation's genetically engineered horseshoe crabs that, once affixed to their foreheads at birth, prevent Klingons from wearing shiny gold vests and leather pants. Cuts down on the sneers and aids in facial hair growth too. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yeah, I forgot about that bit from "Heart of Glory" -- and a couple of other episodes -- where the UFP logo was included in the background of a Klingon ship's bridge. Kinda weird, since that ship probably wasn't specifically assigned for diplomatic relations.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I could go and get my trading card from that episode - but I didn't think the Fed symbol was behind the Klingon - it was just next to it - on screen.
Andrew
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Sorry - did you mean the symbols weren't part of the image transmitted from the bridge of the Klingon ship? That they were just inserted beside the image of the Klingon? Hmm. That might work.
Then again, that ship *could* have been a special Klingon/UFP liaison vessel, specializing in prisoner exchanges... And if the ship didn't have a "diplomatic" mission of some sort, it's a bit odd that it would be flying around next to (or in!) the Neutral Zone (which must have been the Romulan one, since we know of no other Zones from that era). I mean, sure, Klingons can have legitimate reasons for being in places they *don't* intend to conquer or destroy just yet, but they seldom are.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cadet Sorak (Member # 874) on :
quote: Maybe that the Vulcan's noticed the warp signature first was a blessing in disguise - otherwise the Klingons might have noticed!?!
Theoretically, what would have happened if the Klingons had found us first? Possibly another alternate universe that a future Star Trek series could explore...maybe even Enterprise if they run out of ideas. But, just for discussion, what might the universe be like? (Accounting for all the other aliens too, what or who might a Klingon-ruled Earth conquer?)
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Hmmm... certainly an interesting question. Assuming they didn't try to conqueror us outright the Klingons would probably have persuaded us that we needed them for protection and also instilled a deep hostility to any other alien race. I would imagine that most humans in a Klingon dominated Earth would be zenophobic almost to the brink of naziism. The only aliens that would be regarded as remotely trustworthy would be the Klingons. Terran starships (well, repainted Klingon ones) would fight alongside the Empire in a 'war for survival' against the 'hostile' aliens who are out to destroy the combined glories of the Empire and Earth.
If they did just conqueror us outright, I'd think that something akin to the Resistance or Maquis would emerge and try to free Earth from the alien scum occupying the home planet. Whether they'd succeed or not is another matter.
Posted by Kosa (Member # 650) on :
Having a Klingon dominated series would be an interesting take. I can see it now. The rebel human�s fight for independence ala Bajor or the xenophobic earth begins to see threw Klingon propaganda because of the efforts of a few humans.
Hmm..interesting. Not sure if it could be done respectively though and/or maintain interest.
Pretty much what Wraith said i just noticed Nice pondering Wraith...
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kosa: Pretty much what Wraith said i just noticed Nice pondering Wraith...
Thanks!
Great minds think alike Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well they'd have a big-ole invasion. Or would they - it might make the Human populus fight back... which they would like. I wonder what happened on other worlds - did they fightback and to the end? Or they just let the Klingons come in and exploit the population?
Would Gagh catch-on?
Posted by Nimrod Pimding (Member # 205) on :
No, the Klingons would come and destroy our entire defense force and world army in NINE MINUTES. Then they would make us eat rat.
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