I just read at trektoday.com that Shatner says that Paramount denied him any 'special footage' stuff on TFF DVD. THIS is a big fucking shame. Are Paramount continually stupid!?!
Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
the answer to that question is of course, 'yes most assuredly so.' and with a tacked on 'have you been paying attention?'
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I was afraid of that... The one movie out of the series I felt was most in need of the special edition treatment. *sulk*
--Jonah
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
So when is TVH DVD coming out ... ?
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
My impression is that none of the Trek DVDs released to date have been bursting with extras. The sad truth is, they're doing this now, knowing full well that a coupla years down the line, when all have been released, they'll bring out special editions and make the built-in audience they depend so much on pay for it all over again.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er, but we're talking about the special editions.
And Star Trek V plus new effects equals a terrible movie with glossy new effects. Star Trek V plus extra scenes equals a terrible movie that is now longer. The entire film suffers from deep structural flaws, and everyone knows it. You'd have to essentially film a completely different movie. It would be like a "director's cut" of Alien 3 in which Fincher decided to use the Gibson script.
What I'd like to see from the DVD is a detailed and honest post-mortem, and while I expect we'll see a few glimpses of such throughout the extras and commentary tracks, there won't be much of it.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Er, but we're talking about the special editions.
And Star Trek V plus new effects equals a terrible movie with glossy new effects. Star Trek V plus extra scenes equals a terrible movie that is now longer. The entire film suffers from deep structural flaws, and everyone knows it. You'd have to essentially film a completely different movie. It would be like a "director's cut" of Alien 3 in which Fincher decided to use the Gibson script.
What I'd like to see from the DVD is a detailed and honest post-mortem, and while I expect we'll see a few glimpses of such throughout the extras and commentary tracks, there won't be much of it.
I disagree. TFF is a very good Trek film that suffered from a low budget and some questionable production design decisions. And while I wouldn't say Shatner did a GREAT job directing, I have few real complaints with the directing of this film.
The story could have stood some improvements, ie with the whole God-at-the-center-of-the-glaxy thing, and the related special effects could have been much better had the money been there, but the whole plot about Spock and Sybok was very deep and there was a lot of good characterization throughout the film. It contains some of the finest moments between Spock, Kirk, and McCoy that have been seen in filmed Trek.
The self-contained nature of the storyline was also a nice change of direction from the trilogy of TWOK, TSFS, and TVH. (Not that I have any problem with interconnected storylines, I enjoy them as well.)
This film has gotten a really bad rap that has been PARTIALLY deserved, but not to the extent that people purport these days. TUC had far more problems with its story and characterization than this movie.
-MMoM Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
quote:Er, but we're talking about the special editions.
Ohh, why didn't you say so before? Because if Paramount tells you this release is a special edition, then you can trust them because they have our interests at heart - it'll be the specialest edition they'll ever release, and will never be beaten or replaced by another. Definitely not. Perish the thought.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
You know, just like Star Wars.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Are you saying, then that there will be a Special edition of the Special director's cut of The Motion Picture?
TFF was 'unrealised' in it's full form - just like TMP.
TFF does have it's floors. It's a good movie up until they meet 'god'. Before that it's not a BAD movie... I mean the McCoy and his father thing was quite a poinient moment.
Anyway, despite it being the worst of the TOS movies - it has the BEST soundtrack. Isn't that funny!?! The soundtrack is truely amazing. Love it, love it, love it.
Many of it's elements were reused in FC - which many people love (the soundtrack that is) - the first came in TFF.
Andrew
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I certainly wouldn't call it the worst. It wasn't fantastic, but as I said above, TUC was worse. I'd rate the TOS films like this:
(from best to worst) TMP TWOK TSFS TFF TVH TUC
-MMoM Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
TFF is not the worst Trek movie. TMP is. TFF is bad, but it's entertaining bad. TMP is just too dull to watch.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
TFF does have it's floors.
Yes. Over 70 of them! When it should have only 26! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
(Or something like that anyway. I am not going to dig out the Encylopedia just to make this joke make sense, so fuck the lot of you! Now!)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: TFF is not the worst Trek movie. TMP is. TFF is bad, but it's entertaining bad. TMP is just too dull to watch.
OK agreed, there.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
TFF does have it's floors.
You got me there! LOL!
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Yes. Over 70 of them! When it should have only 26! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Perhaps I was hit with the anti-sarcasm bat, Lee, but what are you talking about? Special Edition is just a name they plaster on the side, there isn't any international treaty to define it. Ok, sure. Duh. Obviously. How does that change the fact that said reissues of films 1-3 so far have had all kinds of stuff shoved on them, regardless of quality (not that I'm saying the discs don't have quality material on them, I'm simply avoiding the issue of quality all together for the moment)?
Also, it is certainly possible to think that Star Trek V is a good film in bad film's clothing, but such an opinion is so drastically alien to my own that I'm not sure we can get anywhere discussing it. As I see it, the very centerpiece of the film is handled foolishly, and may even be foolish in and of itself. I don't see anyway to fix it, aside from making a completely different movie.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The movie would have been 50% better if the scene with Scotty knocking himself out were omitted. Holy fuck, that's a stupid scene. Naked Uhura was just disturbing....anybody would have just shot her. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I've got the PERFECT ENDING!! Shatner says there's a lot of shots of him running away from something... they should just splice that footage of Uhura dancing naked in and Kirk always running, running and looking backwards every now and then! LOL!
Or a Kirk/Sybok experience to feel his pain - were you again see Kirk's memory of Uhura naked with the palm leaves! LOL!
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
You should really become a screenwriter!!!
BTW, I agree with you that TFF had by far the best soundtrack!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye that's where the script budget went.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Ooh, Sarcasm Bat, that's a good idea. I'll file it right next to the Jump To Conclusions Mat.
My point is that one day, not too far from now, they probably WILL release an extra-footage version of TFF. Quite likely someone still involved with the production of TFF is still high up at Paramount, and to include all the extra stuff (which might actually improve the film) which they might have had a hand in removing in the first place would be ebarrassing for them. Once someone new is in place they'll gladly let it be released.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Your theory of corporate shame meets corporate greed is of course a sound one, but that chance is now. The Final Frontier has been out on DVD for some time now in the plain no bells and whistles version. At some point they will hit the law of diminishing returns. This is why the super-extra fancy Fellowship DVDs were announced at the same time as the regular release. It's simply good business.
But no one in their right mind is going to pay for this film three times. Quite frankly, no one completely decent and presentable is going to pay for it once, but there you are.
Star Trek V is not a film so much as it is a punchline. Absolutely no one who matters takes it seriously. It gets mentioned in the same breath, by mainstream folks, as Battlefield Earth and Highlander II, and any number of high profile flops. Ishtar. Anyway, a high-up executive who green-lit it and remains has very little to gain by tinkering with it, and lots to lose.
Having said that, aren't there a few dozen different DVD versions of Highlander II out there? Who buys these things? So, I guess, I dunno.
Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
Meh..
If they hired a CGI house, and added in a Federation battle fleet, I would buy it.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Or you could just watch "Call To Arms" instead.
The thing with TFF is that I don't think they do have any extra footage to put back in. The ending was chopped down from what it was originally, but that was on the fly. It wasn't a case that they filmed a massive scene and had to remove it because the SFX weren't ready. To fix the ending would be like adding the "Let's get the gang together" scene back to the beginning of ST VI: you'd need some magical New Footage Making Device.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
....yeah, mabye Stan Winston could make McCoy.
The original scene for the STV climax involved demon creatures jumping out of the pit to chase Kirk after Enterprise lobbs a torpedo into it. The "demons" rip one of the shuttle's nacelles off and prevents it from taking off. The "demons" combine into the cheesey "God" and get hosed by the BOP.
...while it would have made for a better ending, the film would still cause me to scramble for the remote whenever it plays on TV. It's just that bad.
Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
i still think that, using the existing shots of shatner on the run, with some bitchin CGI demons, you could revolutionize the end of the movie, and redoing a lot of the other effects would help too.
but it would not change the problems with the pacing or drama, and it would not generate a helluva lot of interest.
they could digitally remaster the deck signs though..
maybe if they wait til 2009 for the 20th anniversary..
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N.: Meh..
If they hired a CGI house, and added in a Federation battle fleet, I would buy it.
If they did that to Providence you'd probably watch it! LOL!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
You can't seriously put TFF in the same boat as Highlander II, Ishtar and Battlefield Earth. That is just not right. TFF is watchable more than once. It's not THAT bad a movie - it's just not the BEST of the Trek movies.
"Trek is like Pizza, even when it's bad - it's good"
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Trek is like Pizza, even when it's bad - it's good"
Three words: "Shades of Gray".
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, SoG is still good for a Laff!! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Actually, it's not. It's good for wanting to gouge your own eyes out, I suppose...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think STVI did so well, and is so beloved, beacuse TFF sucked so impossibly hard. Watching "Spock's Brain" twice -in a row- is still better than watching STV once. Ever.
The much maligned Insurrection, is Citizen Kane by direct comparison.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
As much as I disliked "Insurrection", I have to agree, TFF was far worse. I wouldn't buy a DVD, extras or no.
A friend of mine had moved to South Carolina, but had returned home for a few days, right after TFF came out. For once, I hadn't gone on the first day, so my bud said lets go see it, even though he had already seen it in SC. After the movie was over, I turned to him and said, "You paid to see this twice?"
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I will, incidently, probably purchase a fancy extra-laden version. But this is because I am nothing but a capitalist puppet. No one should actually do what I do.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Has anyone seen the Fan-MST3K'd version of Star Trek V?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
No, is it any good? It'd have to bee really funny to get me to sit through the movie again.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Watched it at a convention back in... 1995? It was quite funny - never had seen MST3K before that - and I don't think again - as it was never shown here.
Some of the jokes were VERY Nerdy - and I actually enjoyed it more for the actual MOVIE. It's Not a BAD movie people. There is FAR worse out there. I just went and saw "Saving Harvard" last week - there were more laughs in TFF. It wasn't HIDEOUS - but it wasn't a good movie either.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Unlike fabled flops like Ishtar and Heaven's Gate, Star Trek V eventually made a profit, which is never bad.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
No surprise, really. I mean, I'm here listing its multiple and deep faults, and yet I've seen it more than a few times. Perhaps it has something. Perhaps I am a tasteless person. Both are probably likely.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
[quietvoice] I quite like the campfire scene actually. [/quietvoice]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Then you can explain to me what MarshMELONS are!?! Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Get ready to throw stones at me, but
I liked TFF well enough, especially because of the great soundtrack (which always is important for me when judging a movie - not that I would base my whole rating on it.)
I really liked Insurrection. I don't understand the arguments against it. But well, it's a matter of personal taste.
I even bought the Director's Edition DVD of TMP although I had always said that the movie sucked. But the extra footage and mass of high-quality bonus materials made me buy it just the same.
I would even buy such a version of TFF, but I guess they will never do it as a) they don't have the material b) not many Trekkers (or anyone else) would buy it
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Now, a Special Edition of Insurrection, I would buy. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Something I've always wondered about Insurrection; Was the inside the collector supposed to all blue or did they just run out of money and neglected to composite in a background?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh, as far as I know they're releasing a special edition DVD of ST V, just not a reedited/refilmed version.
Posted by Mike lord (Member # 825) on :
Call me crazy but I think it's a bit of a scam they've got running here where they release the bare bones version then supprise! They release all the movies again with all the bells and whistles that should have had on them first time round - for a hiked up price too!
The Thing DVD is just a run-of-the-mill release and it's got over 7 hours of extras.
I always thought that because we're paying a premium for DVD over VHS, we got the extras - not as a bonus but to make up for the extra cost.
I knew paramount would do that and I was warning anyone that would listen at the time because I thought it was odd that they were sooo devoid of extras at a time when it was one of DVD's best selling points.
Regarding Trek V, I quite like it in it's orginal ST feel but it does loose pace toward the middle of the movie - why did we need 45mins of Kirk and company walking across God's world? It's not as if they were strolling across amazing alien landscapes. Also, the soundtrack music could've been a bit more action'y' at the battle of paradise city and what was that Spock/horse/nerve pinch in there for? Action just stopped while the horse falls over and the rider just plonks onto the ground and gives up????
It needs re editing.
It's one redeaming feature is that out of all the Kirk and Co movies, Shatners hair looked like it might be real.
MH Regards
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike lord: Regarding Trek V, I quite like it in it's orginal ST feel but it does loose pace toward the middle of the movie - why did we need 45mins of Kirk and company walking across God's world? It's not as if they were strolling across amazing alien landscapes.
45 minutes? In crazy long time world, perhaps. Going by that time scale, the journey through V'Ger must have taken roughly 7 billion years.
And regarding the "Marshmelons" thing, according to the novelisation it was a practical joke McCoy had played on Spock. He knew that Spock would look up campfire traditions, and so got someone to reprogram the database. I don't know if that ever occured in the script or not, but when Spcok says "Marshmelon", McCoy is cleary taking great delight in his mispronounciation. I'm sure he ribbed him about it later.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Going by that time scale, the journey through V'Ger must have taken roughly 7 billion years."
Well, that was approximately the impression I got the last time I watched it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike lord: Call me crazy but I think it's a bit of a scam they've got running here where they release the bare bones version then supprise! They release all the movies again with all the bells and whistles that should have had on them first time round - for a hiked up price too!
The Thing DVD is just a run-of-the-mill release and it's got over 7 hours of extras.
I always thought that because we're paying a premium for DVD over VHS, we got the extras - not as a bonus but to make up for the extra cost.
I knew paramount would do that and I was warning anyone that would listen at the time because I thought it was odd that they were sooo devoid of extras at a time when it was one of DVD's best selling points.
Regards
You are right. It is a scam. Even the greedy bastards of Lucasfilm (kings of merchandising) did not screw the fans this way. I personally got hosed by TWOK DVD! Zero extras!
...another marketing tool I've noticed is releasing sorry "full screen" versions of new movies on DVD (Spiderman, TLOTR). Why cant you just zoom in 1 notch on the widescreen to get the same effect? I've seen the "special widescreen version" go for five dollars more at WalMart.
...and you're right about The Thing. Awesome movie. Awesome DVD. $25 bucks. Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
zooming in on the widescreen will just give you a closeup of the movie's widescreen form, fullscreen versions are often 'pan and scan' to make sure that important visuals are not lost to the sides.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Personally I like the widescreen format, some movies give you a choice such as Top Gun. Others have Side-A widescreen, Side-B fullscreen. I find it odd that now they're making it separate DVDs.
I haven't bought any ST DVDs yet, movies or shows. I've been meaning to get special edition (se) movies such as TMP, TWOK, etc. I would also buy TFF se just for the sake of having all Trek movies.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)