This is topic Duty record of Jean-Luc Picard. in forum General Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Hello everyone, I'm Kazeite and I'm new here.
I'm from Poland, a small country between Germany and Russia, and English is not my native language, so please excuse my grammar errors.

I was reading this board for the long time and I finally decided to join.

So, for my first post I wanted to start discussion about some forgotten and not-discussed mysteries like the length of the Defiant or even the number of torpedo launchers on the Akira ), but decided to settle on something simple:

Jean-Luc Picard duty record.

I must confess that I don't like Picard very much. In fact I like Janeway better. (And just to show you my tastes in trek, let me add that I think that ST5 was better movie than ST8 )

So, I was thinking about Picard and how did he managed to become captain of the Enterprise. Let me tell you, it doesn't make sense to me why he was chosen to have this job.

Why? Let me explain.

First of all, what do we know about Picard for sure?

He graduated in 2327.

I think that one of the books suggests that he was posted to USS Antares, but that's not important.

In 2329 he's already a lieutenant on Stargazer, and in 2333 he assumes command of Stargazer. That�s only SIX years after his graduation!

I think that's strange. Either Picard became good friends with someone that could pull strings (so to speak), or it was no big deal to give old, outdated ship such as Stargazer to such inexperienced officer.

And now we enter 20 years long Stargazer era. Pretty uneventful, it would appear. We know for sure that Picard had some dealings with Cardassians ("The Wounded") and with theta-band carrier waves ("Chain of Command"), he had couple of affairs, he managed to get Jack Crusher killed, and then he ran into Ferengi in 2355.

And then there's 9 years of absolute silence after that. It would appear that Picard didn't receive another ship, so what was he doing?

And suddenly he becomes captain of the flagship of the Federation. The Enterprise.

And that's even stranger, don't you think? I wouldn't consider Picard to be perfect candidate for that position... in fact I wouldn't consider him at all... I don't believe that man who was commanding obsolete cruiser for the past twenty years would be a good choice for this position.

Another thing that seems peculiar is that every other admiral seems to be on the first name basis with Picard. So, is it possible that some friend of his pulled the right strings again?

What do you think about it?

[ February 16, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Charles Capps ]
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
We don't know that he didn't command another ship between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. Perhaps it was a big ship that would make him more suitable for command of the flagship. And he was a CO very early, so perhaps that counts, as he must have been pretty near the top of the seniority list.
 

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Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
 
Fair point and welcome to Flare Kazeite!

Now, down to business.

I too have wondered the same things about Picard, but never really gave it much thought. A few possibilities spring to mind;

1) He did have a ship between Stargazer and Enterprise. I believe that there was some reference to him commanding a ship between the two when he saw Natash Yar in a minefield rescuing someone.

2) He's got 20+ years experience of combat, command, exploration and diplomacy - all needed for the flagship.

3) He assisted in the shakedown cruises of new ships for 9 years.

Take your pick, but all are (I hope) valid.

-AK
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Don't forget that he visited Chalna (sp?) once on the Stargazer ca. 2354-55. :-p

Yeah, it does seem strange that he would jump to such a grandiose position such as the flagship, but then again, look who they hired to captain the double predecessor (1701-B)!!

It also seems odd that he was able to acquire such a prominent first officer on his ship as well, not to mention the 'droid ALL AFTER receiving a court martial some 8-9 years prior.
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 

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Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
It also seems odd that he was able to acquire such a prominent first officer on his ship as well, not to mention the 'droid ALL AFTER receiving a court martial some 8-9 years prior.

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I suspect its automatic to get a court-martial after losing your ship in peacetime. And he didn't get found guilty, did he?

I also suspect that if you are the captain of the flagship you can pretty much pick and choose any crew member you want.
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Thank you for your respones.

So, akb1979, you're sure about that extra ship? I'm gonna check some chronologies to spot that puppy

And your 'shakedown' theory seems plausible to me. I wonder if... no, wrong year. I was wondering if it's possible that he met young Ben Sisko before 2368. (totally unrelated, I know )
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
You won't find anything official about Picard's second command. It's never been acknowledged. However, in his conversation with Ishara Yar in "Legacy", he says "Her ship had responded to the distress call, as had mine..." (referring to Tasha's ship).

If we assume he hadn't been demoted after the loss of the Stargazer, he was in fact in command of another ship since he hadn't been aboard the Enterprise before Yar.

Either that or their were extenuating circumstances in which he was aboard the ship and involved in the command structure but not technically in command.
 

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Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
 
"I'm from Poland, a small country between Germany and Russia"

Don't worry, most people here can find it on a map.

As for the gap in the good Frenchmen's history: who knows how many diplomatic relations or first contacts he established/made while commanding the 'Gazer? Twenty years is plenty of time to zip around the quadrant and, well, do the stuff that captains do.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I was always under the impression that Picard's renown and high status were due to his diplomatic record, not necessarily his military/command record.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 

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You won't find anything official about Picard's second command. It's never been acknowledged. However, in his conversation with Ishara Yar in "Legacy", he says "Her ship had responded to the distress call, as had mine..." (referring to Tasha's ship).

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Don't forget that he visited Chalna (sp?) once on the Stargazer ca. 2354-55. :-p

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Which is exactly what got Jack Crusher killed...at least according to my pet theory.

I think it's quite likely that Picard had command of another starship for at least some of the 9 years between Maxia Zeta and Farpoint. I doubt very much that Starfleet would waste his 20 years of deep space experiance at some desk job and we know he didn't teach at the academy since Boothby hadn't seen him in...I forget the figure but it was more than 10 years for sure.
It is possible however that he was attached to the Diplomatic corps for some of those 9 years which could explain his reputation as a mediator.


EDIT: I just had a look at the chronology and at the back (Appendix B) it says that it's possible that there was a 6 year period between commanding the 'Gazer and the E-D in which he was not serving aboard a Starship.
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Dukhat, what do you mean it was supposed to refer to the E-D? The very next sentence was "I knew I wanted her on my next command" or words to that effect.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Well remembered that man.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

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Originally posted by Dukhat:

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You won't find anything official about Picard's second command. It's never been acknowledged. However, in his conversation with Ishara Yar in "Legacy", he says "Her ship had responded to the distress call, as had mine..." (referring to Tasha's ship).

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This "as had mine" line was supposed to be in reference to the Enterprise-D, since this took place before the "new" backstory of Yar established in All Good Things. It was only after AGT premiered that Mike Okuda acknowledged this oversight. However, it is only fan speculation that this now means that Picard had another command between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. I personally take this line to mean that it was a ship that Picard was just a passenger on, and not in command of. The line "her ship" doesn't mean that it was a ship that Yar was the captain of, does it?

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wouldn't he have possibly known Rachael Garret or her him? Being a CAPTAIN. If he wasn't then he was just a 'little person'.

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Maybe she didn't recognize him, because he had hair when they last met.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I highly doubt that every captain in Starfleet would know every other captain in Starfleet.
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 

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E. Cartman wrote:
Don't worry, most people here can find it on a map.

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So let's just say that I narrowed their search criteria

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TSN wrote:
I was always under the impression that Picard's renown and high status were due to his diplomatic record, not necessarily his military/command record.

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Well, it's not like the Stargazer was pocket-dreadnought, or something

It had to be his diplomatic record. We know for sure that before Nemesis he made first contact with twenty seven civilisations.
Anyone would care to count those from TNG?

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Reverend wrote:
I forget the figure but it was more than 10 years for sure.

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2364-2355=9

So, there is only one throwaway line that may suggest that Picard had another ship before Farpoint, and nothing else, right?

I'm wondering... in what way he was reffering to the Stargazer during the series? "My first ship" or maybe "My last ship" (meaning, that there was no other ship between Enterprise and Stargazer)?

[ February 12, 2003, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: Kazeite ]
 

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Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 

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I'm wondering... in what way he was reffering to the Stargazer during the series? "My first ship" or maybe "My last ship" (meaning, that there was no other ship between Enterprise and Stargazer)?

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In "Relics" he spoke to Scotty about the Stargazer. I'm not sure if he said "my first ship" or "my old ship" though.

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Anyway, if I were in charge of choosing a captain for a Galaxy-class ship, someone who has not occupied the captain's chair for nine years would be my last choice.

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And someone that was in command of 'overworked, underpowered vessel' would be my last choice, too. It's not like superior ships (Ambassador, for example) that carried other captains just al blew up before 2364
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Ooh Kazeite! An SG1 fan!!

Well of course not every Captain is going to know every OTHER captain - but surely at least by name she should have heard of him.

Oh and no comment that Picard 'took command' when his Captain was killed until they got back to a Starbase or something - but wasn't the actual CAPTAIN until years later.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 

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Dukhat, what do you mean it was supposed to refer to the E-D?

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And someone that was in command of 'overworked, underpowered vessel' would be my last choice, too. It's not like superior ships (Ambassador, for example) that carried other captains just al blew up before 2364

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Really? I don't see what the class of the ship matters, but rather the nature of the ship's mission. The Galaxy-class starship was designed for prolongued missions of exploration far from the borders of the Federation, and without immediate re-supply or backup available. Although this isn't how the Enterprise was used, this was what the class of starship was designed for. And what was Picard doing on the Stargazer? Traipsing far beyond the borders of the Federation, facing the same isolation he would on a Galaxy-Class starship. Sounds to me like he's the perfect contender for command of a Galaxy-Class starship!
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
Even if Garrett had heard of a Capt. Picard in her time, it didn't have to mean Jean-Luc Picard. There were probably other Capt. Picards during her time. She could have known a Jean-Paul Picard or a Richard Picard or some other Picard.
 

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Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
 
.There are plenty of other things that Picard could have been doing in between Stargazer and Enterprise; teaching at the Academy perhaps? If he was a distinguished Captain, and I think we have to assume he was, then it's possible he could have been assigned to pass on his knowledge.

Picard may not have been one of the fleets most gung ho officers, with a string of combat and difficult commands behind him but he's very intellegant and wasn't exactly likely to get the federation's nice new flagship blown up
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 

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Originally posted by Wraith:
and wasn't exactly likely to get the federation's nice new flagship blown up

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If only they'd known...

(And then they gave him the next one!)
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
Picard most likely was not at the Academy seeing as Boothby hadn't seen him in quite a while, though there may be satellite branches where Picard could have been.

And it was really Riker and Troi had had the E-D blown up and crash landed. Riker could have separated the saucer as soon as a core breech was imminent (sp?) and leave those in the stardrive to abandon via escape pods and shuttles (there really should be a few that are ready in case of an emergency). And Troi didn't push the saucer to full impulse once the docking latches had been retracted.
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 

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Originally posted by Wraith:
wasn't exactly likely to get the federation's nice new flagship blown up

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Well, he didn't. That was Riker. Also, Wraith, he couldn't have been teaching at the Academy, for reasons cited elsewhere in this thread. He hadn't seen Boothby since he graduated.

And Dukhat, why didn't you respond to the rest of my post? The bit where I quote the rest of Picard's commentary about his first meeting with Yar. I don't care what they say in the Encyclopedia if it doesn't jibe with the aired dialogue. When he saw her in action, he knew he wanted her on his next command. Now, that likely means 1)he wasn't in command of the ship he was on at that time, and/or 2) he knew he was getting a new command in the not-too-distant future. But he darn sure wasn't in command of the E-D at that point.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Snay, nice post

And this is a very sensible theory about Picards junior officers. It sounds plausible to me - after all, some of the admirals seem to be younger that Picard (his 'dear friend' Alynna, for example )

But I must disagree about Picard being "the perfect contender for command of a Galaxy-Class starship".
Consider this: would you give command of the Enterprise CVN-65 to the commander of, say... one of the US frigates? (Trivia: Poland recently received two older frigates from the US Navy, although personally I have no idea what for )
As one of my friends wrote in his fanfic, "One must learn to know how te read between werses. Any captain can be described as 'excellent commander' in his files, but if he's really good, it will be recognized and awarded."
What I'm trying to say is, the fact that Picard was in command of Stargazer for twenty years doesn't say good about his command abilities. He may be good, but he wasn't good enough to receive new, better ship. He seemed to be normal, average competent starship captain.

Offhand, I can think about at least two other captains that would be better candidates for the position of the captain of the Enterprise: Thomas Halloway and Edward Jellico.
the fact that one was doing exploration missions in the absolete cruiser doesn't mean he is the best choice for doing the same thing in the three times bigger luxury starship
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Of course, on TV, Picard recieved command of the Enterprise. Therefore, Starfleet wanted Picard to command the Enterprise.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

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What I'm trying to say is, the fact that Picard was in command of Stargazer for twenty years doesn't say good about his command abilities. He may be good, but he wasn't good enough to receive new, better ship. He seemed to be normal, average competent starship captain.

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I don't care what they say in the Encyclopedia if it doesn't jibe with the aired dialogue. When he saw her in action, he knew he wanted her on his next command. Now, that likely means 1)he wasn't in command of the ship he was on at that time, and/or 2) he knew he was getting a new command in the not-too-distant future. But he darn sure wasn't in command of the E-D at that point.

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quote:

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Consider this: would you give command of the Enterprise CVN-65 to the commander of, say... one of the US frigates? (Trivia: Poland recently received two older frigates from the US Navy, although personally I have no idea what for )

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As one of my friends wrote in his fanfic, "One must learn to know how te read between werses. Any captain can be described as 'excellent commander' in his files, but if he's really good, it will be recognized and awarded."
What I'm trying to say is, the fact that Picard was in command of Stargazer for twenty years doesn't say good about his command abilities. He may be good, but he wasn't good enough to receive new, better ship. He seemed to be normal, average competent starship captain.

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Picard most likely was not at the Academy seeing as Boothby hadn't seen him in quite a while,

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Originally posted by Kazeite:
Thank you for your respones.

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You're welcome.

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So, akb1979, you're sure about that extra ship? I'm gonna check some chronologies to spot that puppy

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quote:

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And your 'shakedown' theory seems plausible to me. I wonder if... no, wrong year. I was wondering if it's possible that he met young Ben Sisko before 2368. (totally unrelated, I know )

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Hell, any theory is plausible - it's all fiction.

As for the comments about where Poland is, I know just fine - it's in me! I'm 0.25 Polish as my mother's parents are from that country. I LOVE the chocolates there (you can eat all you want and not get sick or all those nasty spots! ), but I HATE all the potholes in the roads.

-AK

 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
OK, so we are basically in agreement, that Picard did not received another ship between 'gazer and Enterprise, right?

Snay, we don't really know if he indeed was on "mission beyond the borders" for an "extended amount of time".

I'm not saying that you're not right, it's just we know about... six or seven events for twenty years of service.

Hm... I wonder... was the five-year missions still 'in use' during that era?

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You place much weight in what class of starship he commanded, when what you need to be looking at is:

a) What mission he was assigned
b) his accomplishments on that mission

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Sorry, my fault.

So, let's see... was he assigned a typical mission of exploration? Or four of them, for that matter?
And, did he accomplished something big? Oh yeah, he made first contact with several civilisations...

You know, I tried to count civilizations that he made first contact during TNG era and I counted about twenty (+/- 5, depending on circumstances)
That leaves only handful of aliens for the Stargazer era. Not very good
On the other hand it may be the average score and it was Enterprise-D which was doing exceptionally well in that matter.
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Dukhat~ I gotcha. Sorry to get grumpy about that. I just get a little persniketty when it seems that someone doesn't address a major salient point of one of my posts. Glad to know we're in agreement, and sorry for misreading your intention.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

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Originally posted by Kazeite:

You know, I tried to count civilizations that he made first contact during TNG era and I counted about twenty (+/- 5, depending on circumstances)
That leaves only handful of aliens for the Stargazer era. Not very good
On the other hand it may be the average score and it was Enterprise-D which was doing exceptionally well in that matter. [/QB]

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I guess John Logan didn't do his homework... If he came here we could have worked it out for him!

It maybe that 'first contact' situations are different from 'first meeting'?? Maybe?

Like in the episode "Transfigurations" - would that have been a First Contact situation?

Would The events of "The Jem'Hadar" have been a First Contact situation?
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
lets start a new thread on the topic of first contacts made in TNG..eh?
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 

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As for the comments about where Poland is, I know just fine - it's in me! I'm 0.25 Polish as my mother's parents are from that country.

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No way!? Good to know
And you know that dr Pulaski is from Poland, too?

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I LOVE the chocolates there (you can eat all you want and not get sick or all those nasty spots!), but I HATE all the potholes in the roads.

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Yeah, our potholes can be used to test all terrain transports and moon buggys. If they can survive Polish roads they will survive anything

Allright, back to topic

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AndrewR wrote:
I guess John Logan didn't do his homework... If he came here we could have worked it out for him!

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Personally I think that Logan performed admirably given the material he had to work with. A good scenario can make any story plausible

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It maybe that 'first contact' situations are different from 'first meeting'?? Maybe?

Like in the episode "Transfigurations" - would that have been a First Contact situation?

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I counted that as the FC situation.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

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Originally posted by Kazeite:Allright, back to topic

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AndrewR wrote:
I guess John Logan didn't do his homework... If he came here we could have worked it out for him!

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Personally I think that Logan performed admirably given the material he had to work with. A good scenario can make any story plausible

What 35 years and 653 hours of aired film?

I was joking in that as if he'd go through each episode and work out the number of Picard first contacts exactly? I'm just saying maybe we could contract out our expertise to the continuity staff for the movies and Enterprise... ROTFLMAO!! continuity... heheheheheh.

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It maybe that 'first contact' situations are different from 'first meeting'?? Maybe?

Like in the episode "Transfigurations" - would that have been a First Contact situation?

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I counted that as the FC situation. [/QB]

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See is that an 'official first contact' or just a meet up or something? Otherwise wouldn't there at least 40 or so 'first "This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the United Federation of Planets Starship Enterprise" to aliens that they'd never seen before?

Does that mean Clara Sutter can claim First Contact with that alien 'strand' species from "Imaginary Friend" or Picard gets that honour?

Does he claim first contact with the Crystalline Entity or do the inhabitants of Omicron Seti III?
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Actually Startrek.com doesnt really say anything about his post Stargazer career. It states that in 2356 he was court-martialed and in 2363 he got the enterprise...so that means he drifted around the galaxy in a shuttlecraft obsessed to find in old ship for 7 years before starfleet felt pity for the old koot and gave him the enterprise.
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
ROTFLMAO

Actually, I just skimmed through short episode synopses and came out with that 20 number, and it took me about 10 minutes. So, it's not so hard.
And Futurama Guy listed all his first contacts, including some dubious ones, in separate thread, too

What I count as the First Contact situation is situation when Picard stands up, tugs his shirt down and says:
"This is captain Picard of the starship Enterprise."
and he gets the response:
"Pleased to meet you, we're yet another aliens of the week."

So it's would be wrong to give him credit for FC situations of other people, like Riker or Data. And it I think it doesn't count if they just stumble upon some lost relics of ancient civilisations or see some aliens passing by.

OK, what was the topic... Oh, yeah.

So, there's no solid evidence for that extra command and we generally agree that most of the FC situations took place during TNG, right?
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Um. No.

I still think he had another command.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Did he say "over my career" or "since I've been on the Enterprise" or something?
 

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Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
 

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Originally posted by Kazeite:

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As for the comments about where Poland is, I know just fine - it's in me! I'm 0.25 Polish as my mother's parents are from that country.

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No way!? Good to know
And you know that dr Pulaski is from Poland, too?

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I LOVE the chocolates there (you can eat all you want and not get sick or all those nasty spots!), but I HATE all the potholes in the roads.

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Yeah, our potholes can be used to test all terrain transports and moon buggys. If they can survive Polish roads they will survive anything [/QB][/QUOTE]

HEHE!

 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 

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Originally posted by Aban Rune:
Um. No.
I still think he had another command.

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Well, like I said, there's no solid evidence for that, not that he didn't had another command.
I find it werid, too, that he didn't had that other ship... wait.

Reverend said that we can't be sure that he wasn't offered the Captain's chair on new and more advanced ships while he was in command of the Stargazer.

So, unless this hipothetical next command ended much like the previous one it means they offered him Enterprise and he accepted. I guess it was Enterprise magic that (hipothetically) caused him to accept
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Maybe he oversaw the building of the Galaxy Class project/Enterprise?
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Perhaps he had 7 years of leave saved up and he was off exploring archaeology finds, or served as a diplomat.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Maybe he was working for Section 31?
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Maybe he painted names and registrys on starship hulls as a part time minimum wage job until he could pay for the loss of the stargazer, and out of spite mis-spelled and numbered much of the fleet.
 

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Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
 
Just rewatched "The Battle" tonight... Picard probably gained quite a bit of prestige after defeating the Ferengi with the Picard maneuver... Geordi even remarks, in awe, that he read about the Stargazer and its accomplishments at the Academy, which would be around the time it was destroyed, possibly even before. So the Stargazer did have a fair amount of fame, both before and after it was lost.

Second, Picard mentions in "The Next Phase" that he was doing inspection tours for a brief time, but it also seems to imply that he had been waiting for a ship, just like the line in "Legacy." Perhaps he had been promised the Enterprise or another Galaxy class, and was just waiting for it to be built?
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
That could be, maybe Trek worked on the point system, as many organizations do, and he had more than enough points racked up to get the Enterprise like he did. In the meantime, I am sure there are plenty of other duties he could have performed, as again, he also could have had a lot of leave time he could have been indulging.
Also in regards to a point system...I will be really disappointed if when Riker cashed his in for the Titan, we find out that the Titan is a really lame ship.
 

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Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
There are lots of things he could have been doing. I think the reason for Picard's aissignment as Enterprise CO has less to do with a "points" system and more to do with his depth of experience as a commander, diplomat, and administrator.
 

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Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
 
Well, let's look at Riker's former offerings... the Drake may have been pretty lame, but the Aries was a step up. And both the Melbourne and Voyager weren't too shabby... plus he had the Enterprise for a while. I think it's safe to assume the Titan is at least Nebula-equivalent.
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Wait! Not to go too far off topic here, but what episode was he offered the Voyager in? Oh, and i've read that he once served on a ship called 'yorktown', was that ever legit? I'm afraid to make a new thread on this fresh tangent topic, but I would hate to be chastized for it again.

As for the rest about experience, I agree totally...I just thought I would throw the point system point in there because it is a reality in the workplace and military (somewhat) in todays world.

Oh and was it ever established how long his layover was between the Enterprise-D and the Enterprise-E. Wasnt it only a year old or slightly less in "First Contact", doesnt that place it about a year after "Generations" as there was two years between those two movies?
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
Riker was never offered Voyager, but I believe in creating the series, they were bouncing around the idea of giving Voyager to Riker, before settling down on a female captain instead... leading to Janeway.

Riker also never served on any Yorktowns. His assignments in order are:

1. USS Pegasus, helmsman
2. Betazed, unknown duties
3. USS Potemkin, security or tactical officer
4. USS Hood, XO
5. Offered command of USS Drake, but declined to serve on USS Enterprise 1701-D as XO
6. Offered command of USS Aries, but declined to remain aboard Enterprise
7. While still assigned to Enterprise, given temporary command of USS Hathaway in battle exercise
8. Offered command of USS Melbourne, but Melbourne destroyed before he could decide... meantime was made CO of Enterprise
9. Returned to XO duties of Enterprise
10. While still assigned to Enterprise, given temporary command of USS Excalibur
11. USS Enterprise 1701-E, XO
12. USS Titan, CO
(13. Possible command of Starbase 247 in future given existance of alternate timeline)
 

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Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dat:
(13. Possible command of Starbase 247 in future given existance of alternate timeline)

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And the 1701-D refit...

Would his temporary command of the Enterprise in "Gambit" count too?

For some reason, I seem to remember Q saying in "Death Wish" he'd hoped Riker would have taken command of Voyager. I guess it's sort of an objective thing as how you could interpret the line.
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Ooo Ooo...and the Pagh....don't forget the Pagh!!

I guess the rest I knew, but somewhere, possibly from some trek magazine from days of ole...I think it was during the last season of TNG there was a profile of all the characters, and the Yorktown was mentioned before the potemkin. But obviously it isn't canon so I thought I would ask anyhow as I havent seen a few episodes of TNG since they first aired!

As for the Titan...I wish it were an Ambassador Class..I miss the Ambassador, unfortunately it was phased out of screen time loooooooong before it should have been...especially considering it was far more advanced then the tired old Excelsiors and Mirandas.
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
I thought that the Titan must be pretty big - maybe a Sovereign (doesn't really sound like a Galaxy or Nebula IMO) - because Riker has a history of turning down command of little ships (and in fact could even have turned down a Nebula depending on your interpretation of the Melbourne situtation) and I assumed that the way Starfleet got him to leave the Enterprise was to wow him with an incredibly cool ship.
 

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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 

quote:

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Riker also never served on any Yorktowns.

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That comes from the novel "Fortune's Light" by Michael Jan Friedman. IIRC it was also mentioned in "Reunion".
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
Well, novels aren't canon and all mentions of Yorktowns in TNG were not about Riker's past.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I'm sure he knows that. He was just explaining where it came from.
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
So where does some of this magizine behind the scenes related information fit in as being canon or not?
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Generally speaking, official background info sort of falls into that grey area of "we can count it until or unless it gets contradicted onscreen." Provided it's from an official reference source that isn't a novel or cominc or some-such.

However, onscreen info pretty much rules over anything.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
I would put Magazine canon behind Tech-book canon of the likes of the Tech Manual(s) and the Encyclopaedia.
 

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