I'm looking for quotes from DS9 regarding the Obesdian Order, specifically comparing its effectiveness as an organization in relations to the Tal Shiar. I need the episode name, and who said what. Much thanks for the help.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
You didn't say the magic word.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
However for shits and giggles here are a few points of interest RE:TalShiar/ObsidianOrder:
"The Wire"
Odo- "They're the ever-vigilant eyes and ears of the Cardassian Empire. It's said that a Cardassian citizen can't sit down to a meal without each dish being duly noted and recorded by the Order."
Bashir- "What happens if you eat something that doesn't meet with their approval?"
Odo-"People have been known to disappear for less. Whether you agree with their goals or not, you can't help but admire their efficiency. Even the Romulan Tal Shiar can't compete with them when it comes to intelligence gathering and covert operations."
"Improbable Cause"
GARAK-And you were afraid we knew things about you... things that could be used against you. So you decided to have us eliminated.
TAIN-Like I used to say... always burn your bridges behind you... you never know who might be trying to follow.
GARAK-You also used to say that the Tal Shiar was sloppy. You shouldn't have relied on them to burn your bridges.
TAIN-True... they should never have hired the Flaxian to blow up your shop...
GARAK-Actually, I blew up my shop...
"The Die is Cast"
ODO-Of course... this whole plan was the Founders' idea in the first place. You wanted the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order to combine forces and come into the Gamma Quadrant so you could wipe them out.
LOVOK-Not exactly. Tain originated the plan. But when we learned of it, we did everything we could to carry it forward. The Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order are both ruthless, efficient organizations -- a definite threat to us.
ODO-But not after today.
LOVOK-After today the only real threats to us from the Alpha Quadrant are the Klingons and the Federation. And I doubt either of them will be a threat for much longer.
These were really the only quotes I recall. There was talk in "Broken Link" about the time Garak lived on Romulus and teasers with what he might have accomplished there against the Romulans. Evidently the Tal Shiar never caught on to the fact an Order agent was present.
Also, something else I was thinking about is how in "The Die is Cast" both the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar were supposedly destroyed in that attack. However, we later see no Obsidian Order beyond that point, however the Tal Shiar still seems to be fully functioning (i.e. "Ship in a Bottle, "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges); this would seem to indicate that the Tal Shiar has more resources, budget, or whatever than the Order.
[ April 13, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Futurama Guy ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Romulans had the benefit of not going through two complete governmental overthrows.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: The Romulans had the benefit of not going through two complete governmental overthrows.
Dunno about that. According to Shinzon (admittedly not the most trustworthy of sources, but he'd have no reason to lie about it) schisms and shifts in government are quite common on Romulus. Of course, it's quite possible that the Tal Shiar maintain themselves outside of those tumultuous circles...
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
To me, the Tal Shiar seems like an organization that wouldn't dissolve simply because the current government says they don't want them around.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Not to mention the fact that they could easily have bases/offices elsewhere than on the homeworld or immediately within the Romulan sphere of influence. Im not sure why the Obsidian Order couldnt have had the same, unless they went into seclusion from the Dominion, considering Garak did mention in one of the later episodes that he had finally lost all communications with his former contacts.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Well in "Defiant" it's stated that the Obsdian Order wasn't allowed access to Military equipment which would limit the Orders ability to spread itself secretly.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Would the Klingons have an intelligence agency/secret organisation? Or would that be considered dishonourable?
Oh and that Lovok-Founder/Odo exchange always gave me shivers down my spine. Fantastic stuff.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
From DS9 Visionary:
MORKA Now you slander us. When my family finds out what you have done, they will come here and kill you!
ODO I doubt that very much. The only people who will be coming here are your friends in Klingon Intelligence. And from what I understand, they don't like to be embarrassed by operatives who fail in their missions.
From DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations:
WORF That arrest will end Darvin's career. Klingon Intelligence will turn its back on him. He will become an outcast.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Not an Obsidian Order quote but one off the top of my head that I love!
"Ben, that Bajoran woman you've got working for you interrupted me in the middle of a staff meeting!"
(Dang right she did lady!) Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hey thanks Spike!
But Klingon and Intelligence!?!
OK, ok - so there are some quite clever and honourable Klingons out there.
Martok Worf Kang Kor Koloth Gorkon
Gowron Koorrd Kruge Km'Pek
and the Lady Grilka
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Holy tangent Batman!
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: You didn't say the magic word.
Please..... And thanks, Spike.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: To me, the Tal Shiar seems like an organization that wouldn't dissolve simply because the current government says they don't want them around.
Probably it wields a substantial amount of political power in itself; any government/potential government would do all it could to stay on the right side of the them. Kinda like the KGB?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
That pretty much defines the Obsidian Order as well...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)