quote:With the disappointing numbers from "Star Trek: Nemesis," Paramount and producer Rick Berman must be scratching their heads trying to figure out how to proceed with another "Star Trek" film. But they're going to have to do so without Patrick Stewart. While "Nemesis" hinted that it would be the last "Star Trek" film to feature the "Next Generation" cast, Stewart confirmed today that he will no longer be a part of the "Star Trek" universe.
In an interview with Lisa Zlotnick, when asked about returning as Captain Picard, Stewart revealed, "I don�t think so. I think the Next Generation is over with. I�ve probably said goodbye to Piccard forever now."
Stay tuned for more from Patrick Stewart, as he gears up as Professor X in "X2: X-Men United."
...it is the most recent "news" (4/21) on the topic, and it does, at least, twist the spoon in our chests a little.... Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Can't say I'm surprised. Though with...
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
...Riker in command of the Titan now, they'd be wide open to do a movie with him at the center of the action. Problem with that would be that they'd have to set up an entire new cast and tell a movie story in an hour and a half...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I suppose the Titan is a Sovereign-class as well? Big *phew* from the FX-dept, in that case.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
If there is another TNG film made, I highly doubt that it will feature the Titan. More likely, TPTB will just have Riker as captain of the Enterprise, with no real explanation as to why he isn't in command of the Titan anymore, just like how they didn't bother to give any explanation as to why Worf was back. Remember, they need the name dropping for ENT...
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
I doubt they will do another TNG film, which is a shame, especially with all the unanswered questions remaining.
Is Worf still Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, or has he returned to Starfleet?
Will Picard ever leave the Captain's Chair and accept promotion to the Admiralty?
Can that android ever replace Data?
Can the Enterprise-E go on a mission without being beaten up?
Will any member of the Enterprise crew (Riker excepted) ever get promoted/transferred?
Now all we will get is Romulan and Klingon wars to which we know the outcome.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: I doubt they will do another TNG film, which is a shame, especially with all the unanswered questions remaining.
Is Worf still Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, or has he returned to Starfleet?
Thought that was established in the movie...that being a diplomat didnt agree with him...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think that scene was cut. Worf told Beverly that during the wedding. Beverly also told Worf that she was going back to Starfleet Medical. But, like I said, this entire conversation was cut out.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I think that scene was cut. Worf told Beverly that during the wedding. Beverly also told Worf that she was going back to Starfleet Medical. But, like I said, this entire conversation was cut out.
Exactly.
And I find it highly unlikely that Worf would give up drinking blood wine and going targ hunting with the Klingon Chancellor to serve on the Enterprise again.
Firstly, if he had returned to Starfleet, he probably would have gone back to DS9, where he was when he became an Ambassador.
Secondly, if he really didn't like life as a diplomat, I think he would have asked Martok for a post in the Klingon military (in which he served during the Dominion War), probably as a General or some such high rank (he was Chancellor for 30 seconds after all).
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, I do remember someone mentioning that the next Star Trek film wouldn't focus on one cast, but rather on a mish-mash ... think about it.
Riker gets command of the Enterprise after the retirement/promotion of Picard. Obviously, he brings Troi.
So, what do we find?
Enterprise's only TNG staffers remaining are LaForge and Worf. With Data's death, it's reasonable to assume that either Worf or LaForge have been promoted to XO ... good cases can be made for both, but let's just say Worf is XO, and LaForge is still CEO.
So, we've got:
Riker - CO Troi - Counselor Worf - XO LaForge - CEO
So, we need an Operations officer, an Medical officer, and a security officer.
Bring in Tuvok as security, Bashir as Medical, and Kim as Ops. Maybe, I dunno. I'd like to see more of a DS9 influence, myself.
The other option, of course, is that Worf remains as CSO, LaForge is XO. Nix Tuvok, and promote Barclay (or bring back O'Brien!) to CEO.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Cut or not, a little Scotch tape and a lot of wishin' can easily make that canon, in which case too, it should probably be noted that the Enterprise-E doesnt have a first officer at the moment either, since that entire sequence was cut, yet everyone seems to accept the new guy despite his lack of appearance.
And I think Worfs heart would be on the Enterprise. His role aboard that ship was much more prominant than DS9, not to mention half the senior officer posts are currently open. Unless, of course, he was bequeathed the Defiant...besides, DS9 is now a Bajoran-Federation Starbase, Im sure it has changed leaps and bounds since the DS9 finale. As in, it is no longer on any sort of frontier as when it was established, not to mention the fact that there probably isnt really any regional threats either, as the Dominion is no more, Bajor is a butt-buddy, and Cardassia is the DS9 equivelent of what Iraq will be....
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
RE: Snay
I cant see Tuvok on the Enterprise, he seems to be a guy that would go on being an adjuct to Janeway or he would go back to the Academy to teach...which would make sense if it were on 'Tactics of Delta Quad. Species 101' or something.
O'Brien is already teaching at SFA.
Bashir would be a good choice, however, I am not sure how he would mesh with the Enterprise crew.
But really, do we need that many cast members in the next movie? I think too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the dinner, and too many cast members in a movie spoils a movie, as the attention to individuals always seems to unequally balanced. It always seemed that Checkov, Sulu, Scott, and Uhura got a good share of screen time despite the attention directed at Mccoy, Spock and Kirk.
In NEmesis, Worf played a negligable role, so did Crusher (again) and LaForge. Riker and Troi had a step more but again Picard and Data hogged screentime to a higher degree much higher than the TOS trio.
Even if the next movie was a DS9/TNG crossover...they could just stick with LaForge, Riker, Troi and Worf...(minus Crusher optional) and have a thought provoking resurrection of Captain Sisko, bring back Bashir, O'Brien and Jake Sisko for that and there is already more than enough players for a new movie....
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I think it's probably a given that by the point of Nemesis ... what, four years after the end of the Dominion War? That Bajor has entered the Federation, and that Deep Space Nine is now a Federation owned AND operated starbase. I think the Defiant has most likely been reassigned.
The same logic that allows Riker to return to command Enterprise (which, BTW, I like) can allow for the transfer/death of the ship's current XO. Personally, I'd love to see Geordi as XO! Hey -- did anyone notice Worf's department color? I didn't see Nemesis in theaters (waiting for DVD), and I was curious if Worf was still a red collar, or if he'd gone back to gold.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I wanna say red...but I havent seen it in a week or so...so I could just be having selective recall too...as it seems Worf can just leave and rejoin SF on a whim without losing his place... Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
The new DS9 relaunch novels say that the Defiant is still at DS9, mainly exploring the Gamma Quadrant, which it couldn't really do before because of the Dominion.
And I am pretty sure Worf was still red.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I can't see the Defiant out exploring the Gamma Quadrant and being any sort of use. Fandom books aside, its a warship and it was used in DS9 for escorts, covert ops and battle...I certainly cannot believe that it is equipt for doing planetary surveys and anomaly charting. They would save that work for the big boys...or for that matter probably haul all of the old Oberths out of the mothballs (considering the shape of the fleet at the time) long before deeming it necessary to use a warship for such 'menial' work. The best options for Defiants would probably be something more along the lines of border patols on the remaining galactic 'hotspots'...or posting them at based on their outer rim as a primary line of defense against outside invaders or threats, such as it was used during DS9.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
You don't send Oberths into uncharted, possibly dangerous territory. The Defiant is perfect - it is quick, nimble, powerful enough to defend itself, and can cloak and run if the "going gets tough", as it were.
And (the Remans aside) I think the Federation is at peace with pretty much everyone around them, so putting warships on border patrol duties isn't really necessary.
Also, given Starfleet's purpose, I would hardly call exploring the galaxy and making first contact with alien races "menial".
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Oberths have been doing that all along, the Gamma quadrant cant be any more threatening now than the Alpha Quadrant was when they were in their heyday. Besides, you still got combined scores of Galaxy, Excelsior and Mirandas still in service that would fit the exploration role LONG before the Defiant....its a warship...it has no comfortable crew quarters...its not equipped for long missions or deepspace exploration....the Federation got by for 225 years without Defiants and cloaks and fared well against the Romulans, Klingons, etc. so why change that?...but again all I hear in your Defiant debate is fanboy dreams of pulse cannons and caviar....not of what was, is and are the facts. Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:You don't send Oberths into uncharted, possibly dangerous territory.
The Defiant doesn't have any science labs. That's a good reason you wouldn't send it.
Sounds perfect for a Galaxy-Class starship, however.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Sounds perfect for a Galaxy-Class starship, however.
That's probably what Captain Keogh thought. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
What the hell?? His role was purely shock value. Do you think he was there looing for the closest ice cream stand when he went through that wormhole....??
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Oberths have been doing that all along, the Gamma quadrant cant be any more threatening now than the Alpha Quadrant was when they were in their heyday. Besides, you still got combined scores of Galaxy, Excelsior and Mirandas still in service that would fit the exploration role LONG before the Defiant....its a warship...it has no comfortable crew quarters...its not equipped for long missions or deepspace exploration....the Federation got by for 225 years without Defiants and cloaks and fared well against the Romulans, Klingons, etc. so why change that?...but again all I hear in your Defiant debate is fanboy dreams of pulse cannons and caviar....not of what was, is and are the facts.
Oberths are, and always have been, science ships and freighters, not explorers. Remember the Grissom?
And insulting me is just ridiculous and childish - you don't use pulse cannons very often when making first contact, and what caviar has to do with this is beyond me.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
If you havent noticed, the portion of the Gamma Quadrant near the wormhole was controlled largely by the Dominion. The Dominion is no more...at least as a threat. That is a vast expanse of space in which Oberths could have pretty free and safe roam of the region. Besides, there was probably plenty of systems within earshot of the wormhole that had not been thoroughly charted, again, easily using the resources of an Oberth. They are science vessels and are specially equipped for scanning and charting, which is what they did best...otherwise they would have sent something bigger to Genesis...but no, the Obie was the best one for the job.
Plus, I am sure that SF got a MAJOR bonus out of winning the war with starcharts and lists of new species to encounter up the yazoo from the former Dominion, so no threats really exist in the range an Oberth would travel, because the Dominion probably was pretty thorough on eliminating any other threats long ago.
And the caviar was referring to your dreams...a la...'life styles of the rich and famous' which you are evidently are not familar with.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Ok, Phoenix boy, you tell ME how a Defiant-class, a ship without the scientific resources of even a MIRANDA class starship, can be expected to fulfill the role of a science vessel? I'm waiting.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
I didn't say it is a science ship. It is exploring - travelling to new worlds, saying hello, then moving on. The diplomats and scientists, I presume, will come later.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm of the opinion that the Defiant, cloak and all, wouldn't have fared any better had it been int he same position as the Odyssey. This is proven in "The Search", where three attack ships handily trounced the Defiant while losing only one ship. Had they not been there to capture the crew, they could have easily destroyed her - it was clear that the Defiant was dead in space even before the Jem'Hadar beamed aboard.
After a battle in which the Odyssey was bashed about for an arguably longer amount of time (discounting the runabouts, which were pretty useless anyway), she was still intact and reparable to the point of being able to get away. She may not have been able to fight back, but as we saw later on in the series that wasn't so much of an issue anymore. If I'm going to go tooling around unexplored space, I'm not going to go in a Defiant.
The Galaxy is still handily capable of exploring space. A Defiant may have more advanced (but not necessarily superior) firepower, and the Sovereign may have hefty amounts of both, but on the whole when you need to explore space you need scientists, diplomats, explorers and the like - something a Galaxy can support far more than either of the other classes can. Exploration isn't done at the point of a spear!
But this is something to be discussed over in the tech forum, no?
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: as the Dominion is no more
Where on Earth does this come from? The Dominion is likely just as powerful as it ever was. I doubt anyone in the Gamma Quadrant who isn't a Founder even knows that there was a war being fought, much less that it was lost. The Dominion end of the wormhole is likely an armed camp by now.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
But the Dominion surrendered, not just the Alpha Quadrant half of it. If you'll remember, the disease had affected the Founders in the Gamma Quadrant as well -- the surrender terms negotiated by Odo were that in exchange for the cure, the Dominion would end the war and presumeably pursue peaceful relations with the Federation. The Dominion no doubt DOES have a powerful military force in the Gamma Quadrant, but they are no threat to Federation and allied ships.
Oh, and Simon? He said "The Dominion is no more ... as a threat, at least." And he's RIGHT. The Dominion is not a threat. I don't understand why you didn't quote the entire sentence, OTOH, it's almost like you didn't read it at all.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Anxiety much, Jeff? I was quoting from an earlier post, if it is so important to you. And the idea that the Dominion simply rolls over and lets the Federation run wild through the Gamma Quadrant does not strike me as being at all plausible, interesting, or, most importantly, stated or implied by "What You Leave Behind."
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I know you were Simon, I pointed that out to you, didn't I?
Let me point something else out. If the Dominion wasn't allowing Federation ships to explore the Gamma Quadrant, then what is the point of this whole "I'd send a (Defiant/Oberth/Galaxy) ship to explore" is moot, isn't it? After all, if the Dominion says, "uh, no explorations, please", then most likely, Starfleet will now listen to them. The whole crux of this arguement is an assumption that the Dominion IS allowing them to explore, therefore, any threats which would be encountered are unlikely to be of Dominion origin. Dig'it, yo?
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
quote:and presumeably pursue peaceful relations with the Federation.
You are presuming, but I don't recall anything over Ending the war with the federation, and going home. I'm with Sol on this one. Odo's infulence may change the founders, but it wont happen over night. I suspect they are ju8st waiting for the Federation to come through the worm hole and play.
As for the Defiant, I seem to remember that it was built to fight, and didn't have sensor's that would enable it to act as a research vessle. I figure it got upgrades along the way, and might be sent to the GQ as a scout, to make sure it was safe enough to send a less well armed, but better equiped ship for scientific investigation.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
It should be noted that in the books, the Defiant was refit for exploration duty. IIRC, some of the extra weapons storage was removed for labs and the like.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I thought Odo was pretty much heading up the Dominion's Reconstruction...as he was pretty much the savior of the Founders and so forth...I think SF has a good opportunity to get some good out of this...he is, afterall, their allie.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Maybe. But one Odo against potentially several billion changlings? I'm not sure his will is quite that powerful.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I think the fact that he had the cure and the Federation put the Founders in ther perverbial place by infecting them and Odo being their only cure, and hell, for all the speculation here...we REALLY don't know the finer points of the surrender...but whichever the case, Odo wouldnt have stayed if he didnt think that he would be effective being there versus being with his one true love...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The thing is, as I see it, Odo isn't exactly the most pro-Federation type around. Unlike every other Founder we saw, he was willing, even eager, to accept that "solids" were decent individuals worthy of respect, at least. But Odo's final official contact with the Federation was when they tried to kill him and his entire species. So, is Odo going to suggest the Dominion pursue another genocidal war in the Alpha Quadrant? I doubt it. But he has very little reason to suggest that the Dominion trust the UFP.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
But the Federation did what it had to do....in fact, it might have been more Section 31 than it was the Federation so the Feds really cant be at completely at fault here for Odo to harbor his mistrusts...
Besides, this brings up the same scenario Truman faced with the Japanese in WWII and using the Nuc. They NEEDED to end the war, and the NEEDED to do it now, because the casualities were becoming astronomical. Truman dropped the bomb, and brought an immediate solution to an immediate problem...it was that or face even a significantly larger number of casualities in an attempted invasion of the islands.
Much the same, the Federation NEEDED to end the war, and Section 31 took it upon themselves to do it. The difference here, in this analogy is that what Section 31 did was not as immediate; it may have been genocide, but it HAD a cure and it was long term (vs. immediate). Ethics aside, each did what they had to do to have the upper hand or to win...be it cause a fatal virus, mine or attempt to collapse the wormhole, or destroy hundreds of ships, planets and colonies....thankfully the use of biogenics wasnt fulfilled. Keep in mind too, the Dominion was willing to destroy the Bajoran sun...that would have been genocide of the Bajoran ppl and probably half the KDF and the like...
Odo may have been a pawn, but I think he understood the circumstances, or he wouldnt have participated in the final party...or been part of ANYTHING once he was cured...
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
You know, the funny thing is that S31 actually succeeded. Without that virus, we might have still won the war in the Alpha quadrant, but we would have lost a lot more ships doing it, a lot more people would have died, and the Gamma quadrant arm of the Dominion would have still existed in full force, with no reason to stop fighting. (Minus the 3,000 ships the Prophets blinked, of course.)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Besides, this brings up the same scenario Truman faced with the Japanese in WWII and using the Nuc. They NEEDED to end the war, and the NEEDED to do it now, because the casualities were becoming astronomical. Truman dropped the bomb, and brought an immediate solution to an immediate problem...it was that or face even a significantly larger number of casualities in an attempted invasion of the islands.
I don't think that's really the best example you can use, considering that not everyone thinks as you do.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Provide evidence to the contrary...projections for the invasion seemed to indicate otherwise in retrospect...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
They do NOW. The projections during the war itself were much less, then the now inflated number of one million. I'm not saying the current estimations aren't incorrect, just that Truman didn't have them to go by, and we should judge him based on the information he had at the time.
The big difference between what Truman did and what Section 31 did, is that, at worst, what Truman did was mass-murder -- given the inaccuracies of regular bombs of the time, thousands of civillians were being slaughtered by both sides as a routine matter of course. What Section 31 did, however, was unsanctioned by their government, and is however you factor it, attempted genocide. Everything turned out okay for the Federation, but I can't imagine it's good to have a rogue agency running around doing this crap.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
quote: Besides, this brings up the same scenario Truman faced with the Japanese in WWII and using the Nuc. They NEEDED to end the war, and the NEEDED to do it now, because the casualities were becoming astronomical. Truman dropped the bomb, and brought an immediate solution to an immediate problem...
Bombs , plural. Even if we accept the slightly facetious argument that the bombs prevented more casualites than they caused, it hardly justifies both. Besides, the Japanese were already a defeated people, we were already bombing their cities with impunity...hardly an immediate problem.
It seems almost irrelevant (need a better word) to make the comparison, but the Federation really did face the threat of annihilation. They lost entire fleets, Betazed, and Earth itself was bombed (Apparantly a novelty even for Martok.....though Enterprise will soon show us otherwise). Though they probably didn't know about it, Weyoun did seem to favour the complete destruction of Earth for starters.
Ultimately, this all doesn't seem to matter all that much. While the virus was an important story thread for Odo, the positive impact of the virus on the war seems....superfluous, and overshadowed by the Romulan entry into the war and the Cardassian rebellion.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
The point is: extreme measures were taken on both cases to end a war. The Japanese were supposedly, at least what Truman was lead to believe, were going to fight to the death throwing everything they had at an invasion, voluntary suicide civilians and all. Im not here to defend actions taken or logistics of WWII, I am just trying to state that in both scenarios extreme measures were taken to either inflict damage or to outright end a war. 1) The Dominion DID make the first attempt at mass murder by destroying the Bajoran sun and a massive space fleet of allied force. 2) Section 31 took the liberty to kill, to cause genocide to, the Founders. Those are the extremes I am trying to point out....
Consider, too, that despite the fact that the Founders were targeted, the belief was at the time, that if they cut the head off the snake, and the Founders died, then Jem'Hadar wouldn't have been far behind, either....so really, Section 31 was targeting more than just the enemy "government", which actually was planned well before the war started, which eventually would have caused the annilihation of the rest of the Dominion as well.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
quote:The point is: extreme measures were taken on both cases to end a war.
But let's keep depressing historical facts and lighthearted science fiction seperate, shall we?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
you're taking this way too seriously....
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Are you the pot or the kettle?
As for exploring the Gamma Quadrent: 1) I would imagine several ships would be used, at least once the fleet is built back up. 2) I would certainly imagine that at least one large vessel ie Galaxy or Nebula would be assigned. 3) Smaller vessels- Nova class perhaps? We know they (or at least a refitted version) pack quite a punch and they are pretty durable. 4) The Defiant could be used for initial surveys I suppose- it must have some sensors that could be used to gather preliminary data about planets/ atmospheres but i doubt it'd be any use for 'proper' exploration, even after a refit.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
What some people are forgetting is that we know practically NOTHING about the agreement signed between the Federation and the Dominion at the end of the war, in "What You Leave Behind." Literally ALL we know is that the war was ended, and Odo was going back to the Great Link to try to change the beliefs of his people.
Literally nothing was said about provisions for starships from either side crossing through the wormhole; nothing was said about subsequent diplomatic relations; nothing was said about the condition of the Dominion after the end of the war.
Remember that the core of the Dominion, in the Gamma Quadrant, is completely untouched in physical terms. Aside from the fleets which the Dominion sent through the wormhole, everything else is completely intact. We dont even know if the Jem'hadar fighting in Cardassian space were required to turn their warships over to the Allies and were shipped back in unarmed transports, or if they were allowed to head back to the Gamma Quadrant untouched at the Founder's orders. It's easily possible that all the treaty provided for was an end of hostilities and the posting of a huge "DO NOT ENTER" sign on both sides of the wormhole.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
How many Dominion ships were in the wormhole at the end of "Sacrifice of Angels"? Before they were wiped out, obviously.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Literally nothing was said about provisions for starships from either side crossing through the wormhole; nothing was said about subsequent diplomatic relations; nothing was said about the condition of the Dominion after the end of the war.
Yes, except you seemed to have missed that the discussion was hypothetical -- assuming Starfleet was free to send ships to explore the Gamma Quadrant, what would they send?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: How many Dominion ships were in the wormhole at the end of "Sacrifice of Angels"? Before they were wiped out, obviously.
Someone mentioned it earlier, it was like 2800 or some ungodly number like that...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So I'd say that the Gamma Quadrant part of the Dominion Fleet hardly escaped untouched. At the very least, a loss of almost 3000 ships is going ot require some fairly major rebuilding.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Could someone post a link to the thread talking about the DS9 relaunch novels. I'm going to bed in a minute, and don't have time to hunt for it.
An informed debate is what's needed here, and with several participants in this furball shooting with an unstrung bow, y'all might want to bone up on the only source material to be had -- namely the twelve sequential novels, starting with "Avatar, Part One of Two" -- that pick up where "What You Leave Behind" ended.
The Defiant has indeed been outfitted with an increased scientific capacity, including a small Stellar Cartography lab, and is performing resumed reconnaisance of the Gamma Quadrant.
One thing everyone seems to have forgotten is that it was over a year after we poked our noses into that part of the galaxy that we even began hearing rumours of the Dominion. Granted, when they made their presence known, they claimed the area around the wormhole, but that's only because we'd attracted their attention and they were rattling their sabres in the manner to which they were accustomed.
If you'd read the books, you'd note that the Defiant follows a pre-approved three-month circuitous route away from Dominion space, into areas where they have no claim, see what's there, say hi, and head back to the wormhole. The Federation will then decide what sorts of missions and ships to send after that, based on their reports.
I don't pretend these books are canon, but they're the closest thing we're likely to see in the next decade.
--Jonah
P.S. based on how good the DS9 relaunch was, I'm seriously looking forward to the Voyager relaunch and the Lost Era books.
[ April 29, 2003, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Peregrinus ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Lost Era?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
That used to refer to the post-TOS, pre-TMP years. But now it's the name for the post-ST6, pre-TNG adventures instead, an anthology of books on captains Sulu, Harriman, Garrett etc.
Perversely enough, I think this era is one of the safest now for a book series to explore. Pre-TOS is a minefield due to ENT now. Post-VOY is a potential timeframe for future movies and spinoffs, especially if ENT backfires. And if the "lesser" TNG actors agree to continue a movie career.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Could someone post a link to the thread talking about the DS9 relaunch novels. I'm going to bed in a minute, and don't have time to hunt for it.
An informed debate is what's needed here, and with several participants in this furball shooting with an unstrung bow, y'all might want to bone up on the only source material to be had -- namely the twelve sequential novels, starting with "Avatar, Part One of Two" -- that pick up where "What You Leave Behind" ended.
Except that would have nothing to do with this discussion, because we don't talk about novels in here...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
If we don't talk about novels here in "General Trek", where the smeg do we talk about them? And anyway, you're quite mistaken, as seen here, just to cite one comparatively recent example...
--Jonah
P.S. Am officially annoyed "Unity" has been pushed back to November. What the hell?!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Designs, Artwork, & Creativity WARNING: Non-canon zone! Enter at your own risk!
Try smeggin' here... I think it has to do with all of the noncanonicity... and novels, and a variety of joe-blows writing them, and the fact that any additional tv/movie produced information on the same topic quickly nullifies their validity, other than a good read.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
I don't see at all how novels could come under "Designs, Artwork and Creativity", which is a forum about things we have come up with and designed. "General Trek" seems much more appropriate. There is absolutely no mention of canon in the title of this forum.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm going to have to agree with Pheonix here. Sure, if someone tries to prove a point about an episode by talking about a scene in a novel, then we can point fingers and laugh. But if it's a general discussion specifically about them, then here seems fine.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well then, that line got crossed in this thread...and that was more the point I was trying to make...
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Well it's not really your decision to make, is it?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
no, but that doesnt stop me from saying something, now does it...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I'm still a little curious as to how the line got crossed. Someone brought up the possibility of a DS9 movie. I said the DS9 "relaunch" books were the closest we were likely going to get to new canon info on that universe within the next decade (this disregarding the multi-property movie idea that's started floating around). And you said this was the wrong forum to talk about the novels.
I wasn't trying to use the content of the books to prove a point about an episode. Someone had mentioned the Defiant continuing to stick its nose into Dominion territory by going through the wormhole. I reminded everyone that we didn't even hear about the Dominion for more than a year after we found the wormhole, so their territory definitely did not extend that far. And I held the books up as an example of how the Defiant can explore the Gamma Quadrant without going near the Dominion.
They are a good read, they are internally consistent (barring a few minor screw-ups in "Cathedral"), and they are not likely to be contradicted any time soon, if ever. These books are probably going to be the only continuation of the DS9 universe for quite some time, and they have rapidly become Pocket Books' best-selling Trek imprint. You may want to spare a glance at them, at the very least so you aren't blindsided by someone using them as reference. But for now I just request you stop shooting down the people who do.
--Jonah
P.S. Voyager relaunch in June! *yay!* This is gonna be a good summer for Trek books.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: P.S. Voyager relaunch in June! *yay!* This is gonna be a good summer for Trek books.
Hooray! Vice Admiral Kate!
I hope they maintain tradition and feature Ensign Kim. Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Well, since it starts right after "Endgame" ends, Kate is still Captain and Harry is still Ensign.
--Jonah
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Even better, we get to find out how and why Kate is promoted so much. Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
Getting back to the initial point of this thread, I think we'll see 2 ST film genres both 'Enterprise' and 'TNG'.
I would indeed think that Riker will graduate to command the Enterprise-E - after all, he commanded the refit Enterprise-D in 'All Good Things' - so it could be argued that he has the potential and drive. And this will allow the use of the so-called 'lesser' TNG stars - unless some of them go on to command starships as well.
I would welcome this myself - I do not see the 24th century as 'mined-out' insofar as story possibilities are concerned - and like most fans I truly enjoy the characters.
So far as 'Enterprise' is concerned - I think a movie is probably already in the works - at least to the point of story reviews. The title may well be: "The Romulan Wars".
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Treknophyle: I would welcome this myself - I do not see the 24th century as 'mined-out' insofar as story possibilities are concerned - and like most fans I truly enjoy the characters.
I can certainly agree with this. Considering, what...the ENTIRE Star Trek Universe as we know it has changed dramatically following the end of the Dominion War. The Klingons change in regime, same with the Ferengi, Cardassians and now Romulans, I'm sure even the Federation has been restructured quite a bit following the losses it suffered during the war. There is definately plenty yet to explore in the 24th Century. Sadly the years will continue to pass beyond Nemesis and we may not see anything come out of it production-wise....
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