I watched "All Good Things..." yesterday and noticed for the first time that in each of the segments occuring in the 'past', Data's rank is Lt. JG. I haven't pulled out "Encounter at Farpoint" to see if they were simply repeating the error for the sake of constancy, but I don't ever recall noticing this goof in the actual pilot.
Has anybody noticed this before or know the story behind it?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
'twas a mistake
and it wasnt like that in Encounter at Farpoint
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, it was a mistake. Data was always a Lt. Commander during TNG. Didn't Picard even call him "Commander Data" in All Good Things?
I guess the one slim explanation was that, since all the events in All Good Things took place before the events of Encounter at Farpoint, perhaps in the real timeline Data was promoted from LT. J.G. directly to Lt. Commander en route to Farpoint. The problem is, Data later says that he spent time in the "Lt. grades"... implying he was both a junior and full lt. at some point.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Well, I realize he was supposed to be Lt. Cmdr, but it seems odd that they should make that kind of glaring error in the season finale.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Actually, I'd say it's even more likely that they'd make it then, considering that everyone would have been stretched to breaking point not only trying to do the mammoth amount of work needed for a season (and series) finale, but they'd have also been swamped preparing for Generations. So it's not surprising that they might have failed to notice something so blatent.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
What's more amazing still is that the same mistake showed up in every scene with the EaF version of Data. I can see them making the mistake during one day of shooting... but to make the same mistake during every day that those scenes were being shot is quite a feat.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Speaking of "All Good Things", I was thumbing through the transcripts for it and noticed a scene that was cut from it I thought would be interesting to point out:
quote:
PICARD (in the "Past") Mister O'Brien... how big is the anomaly?
O'BRIEN (works) Approximately four hundred million kilometers in diameter, sir.
PICARD I still don't understand why it's larger here...
O'Brien gives him a puzzled look -- he doesn't know what the hell Picard is talking about, but decides not to pursue it. Worf suddenly reacts to something on the aft console. WORF Captain... there are five Terrellian transport ships holding position in the Devron system.
TASHA We're being hailed by the lead ship.
PICARD On screen.
INCLUDE VIEWSCREEN (OPTICAL) Which now shows a Terrellian pilot named ANDRONA.
ANDRONA Enterprise, you are a welcome sight. We've been receiving threats from the Romulan Empire ever since we entered the Neutral Zone. I'm glad to see you're here to protect us.
PICARD Why have you come here?
Androna's expression brightens a little.
ANDRONA We heard about the Light... from a merchant ship who told us about the power it has to heal illness... to rejuvenate the elderly... and we had to come here.
The others on the Bridge look a little confused...they've never heard about any of this.
PICARD We can't really be certain that the... Light... has this power. And there may be dangers, side effects we're not aware of...
ANDRONA I have five ships full of sick and dying people, Captain. If there's even a chance it's true, I can't turn back now.
PICARD It would be safer for all concerned if you left the Neutral Zone... and let us investigate the phenomenon more fully.
ANDRONA No. I've come too far.
Picard is frustrated, but has no authority to order them away.
PICARD I warn you that if the Romulans should decide to intervene, I may not be able to protect you.
ANDRONA I understand. We'll take that risk. (beat, then smiles) Good luck, Captain.
The Transmission ENDS. Picard thinks for a moment, then heads for the Ready Room.
PICARD (to Tasha) You have the Bridge, Lieutenant. I'll be in my Ready Room.
TASHA Aye, sir.
Picard EXITS briskly to the Ready Room.
Now its been quite a while since Ive seen the finale in its entirety, but that was indeed cut, was it not? I believe the transcript version in question is March 10, 1994...2+ months before its airing.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
That scene was never in the full two-hour version, no.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: What's more amazing still is that the same mistake showed up in every scene with the EaF version of Data. I can see them making the mistake during one day of shooting... but to make the same mistake during every day that those scenes were being shot is quite a feat.
I dunno. Maybe they just never took his pips off his uniform when Brent undressed at the end of the day. Or maybe all his "past" scenes were shot in one day.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
That Tarellian scene was INDEED filmed. It is mentioned in the Larry Nemecek Star Trek: The Next Generation Compendium.
The Tarellian is played by none other than Martha Hackett aka T'rul aka Seska.
The character has 4 arms like Amarie in "Unification"
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
The hell...? The Tarellians we saw in "Haven" didn't have four arms.
--Jonah
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
The can of worms has been opened.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: The hell...? The Tarellians we saw in "Haven" didn't have four arms.
--Jonah
And that's probably why the scene was cut.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by OnToMars: Well, I realize he was supposed to be Lt. Cmdr, but it seems odd that they should make that kind of glaring error in the season finale.
There's an even more glaring error in 'Generations'. In the scene where Picard beams down to Veridian III to stop Soran, the mighty captain doesn't have a combadge on. It's on when he beams down, and he has it in the Nexus with Kirk. It's mysteriously gone when he's down on the planet. Now projected onto huge theatre screens, THAT'S a glaring error!
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
It might not be an error seeing as Picard most likely went over to Lursa and B'Etor's ship first because he didn't know exactly where Soran was (and because when he does materialize, it's from a Klingon transporter... you'll note the different effects used). When he did arive on their ship, they probably took his commbadge so that he couldn't contact the Enterprise. When he's in the Nexus, he's probably imagining he still has the badge for completeness' sake.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: The hell...? The Tarellians we saw in "Haven" didn't have four arms.
--Jonah
And that's probably why the scene was cut.
But it didn't say Tarellian, now, did it? It said Terrellian. Obviously two different species...
-MMoM Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
it wouldnt have been a huge reason, since they went on to add two different species of tarellians later.. i believe one who was visually identified as terellian in DS9 and one other tarelian identified in dialogue as having a physical appearance dissimilar to those two
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
No, you are confused with Talarians...
In DS9 they did mention Terellians and Terrellians, neither were seen, both were meant to be the same species.
In "Improbable Cause", Garek pointed out a Talarian that was visually much different than those we saw in "Suddenly Human", however, in reality it was a Kobheerian, one seen often during the run of the show.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
we still have Tarellians from "Haven" who are perfect humanoid types, and carry plague
then we have the four armed Terellians who, despite being cut from AGT, were still mentioned as being four armed in "Liaisons"
and there was yet another Terrellian in VGR's "Fight" who was not Tarellian nor four-armed, and several TNG, VGR and ENT episodes have mentioned Terrellians, Tyrellians and Terellians, some of whom had a plague of some sort
sorry about the confusion mentioning DS9, i was thinking of the Talarian problem too..
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
If we go by pronunciation alone, then the T-races go something like this:
Tarellans. No "i" there. Humanlike plague victims, only seen or mentioned in "Haven".
T*rellians. * stands for random vowel, sometimes with a second "r" there, too. Spellings in Encyclopedia vary. At least two species implied: a Delta quadrant one Neelix knows about, and a four-armed Alpha/Beta one. Then again, Neelix could have been studying Alpha species.
Talarians. Clear TNG references to lobsterheaded near-humans. Confusing DS9 reference to what looks like a noseless Dopterian, but more of that later on.
Tamarians. Alternate name for "Children of Tama". Again clear, problem-free TNG references.
Now, about those Talarians... When Garak mentions a Talarian, he is making the point that the guy is not swallowing his food as fast as his impatient human companion. However, as the scene is set, it would be wholly impossible for Garak to see how fast or slowly the noseless Dopterian is eating. So it's quite reasonable to assume that he is actually describing a person on a table *other* than the one the camera is pointed at! Or just pulling Bashir's leg, as Bashir is turned the other way and doesn't even bother to properly look at the table the camera shows.
(I wouldn't put it past Garak to even mistake the species of the noseless Dopterian, since all he can see is his back, but that's not as satisfactory an explanation...)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OOppsss - I said Tarelian or what-ever... I meant what-ever was in the script... Terrellian
See also this and this, which explain it.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Except that a proper adherance to the Latin naming of elements yields "Aluminum" -- no second 'i'.
Of the elements known to the Romans, only one -- Barium -- ended in '-ium', due to it being a modification of the root word (which I can't remember right now -- 'bari-something', obviously). The others at the time, for comparison purposes, included Aurum (Gold), Argentum (Silver), Cuprum (Copper), Selenum (Tin), Ferrum (Iron), and so on. If you see an atomic symbol that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual element name, odds are it's derived from the original Latin name...
--Jonah
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Except that a proper adherance to the Latin naming of elements yields "Aluminum" -- no second 'i'.
Of the elements known to the Romans, only one -- Barium -- ended in '-ium', due to it being a modification of the root word (which I can't remember right now -- 'bari-something', obviously). The others at the time, for comparison purposes, included Aurum (Gold), Argentum (Silver), Cuprum (Copper), Selenum (Tin), Ferrum (Iron), and so on. If you see an atomic symbol that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual element name, odds are it's derived from the original Latin name...
--Jonah
That's a bit irrelevant really. The fact is that it is officially spelt Aluminium, regardless of the original Latin system.
The international organisation responsible for chemistry says it's Aluminium, so it is. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Except that a proper adherance to the Latin naming of elements yields "Aluminum" -- no second 'i'.
Of the elements known to the Romans, only one -- Barium -- ended in '-ium', due to it being a modification of the root word (which I can't remember right now -- 'bari-something', obviously). The others at the time, for comparison purposes, included Selenum (Tin)
--Jonah
That's interesting because wasn't the Greek goddess of the moon Sel�n�?
Infact doing a quick google...
Σεληνη (Sel�n�) = the Moon (Greek)
So is Tin still Selenum? I guess it's symbol is still Sn.
Just more on Sel�n�:
quote:Selenium was first identified in 1817 by the Swedish chemist Jakob Berzelius (1779-1848) (note). Berzelius and his colleague Johann Gottlieb Gahn (1745-1818) were studying a method of producing sulphuric acid in lead cameras when they observed residues of a substance with a very intense scent in the bottom of the camera. At first, they thought it was Tellurium. However, a more careful analysis revealed that there were no residues of this element, in spite of its identical properties. To this new substance was given the name Selenium, term that derives from the Greek Σεληνη [Sel�n�] (Moon). Since Klaproth had named Tellurium for the Earth, Berzelius thought it appropriate to name the sister element for the Earth's satellite:
[/quote]In mythology, Selene resembles a young woman with an extremely white face who travels on a silver chariot drawn by two horses. She is often shown riding a horse or a bull. Selene is said to wear robes, carry a torch, and wear a half moon on her head. She was not one of the twelve great gods on Olympus, however she is the moon goddess. After her brother Helios completes his journey across the sky, she begins hers. Before Selene's journey across the night sky she bathes in the sea. She is known for her countless love affairs. The most famous of her loves is the shepherd Endymion. Encyclopedia Mythica. [/quote]
Selene is also known as Diana (who I thought was the goddess of the hunt?)
There you go, a nice little aside! Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Just moved on to Sn - and it is Latin for Stannum not Selenum:
quote:Stannum (Latin) > stag
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Just moved on to Sn - and it is Latin for Stannum not Selenum:
quote:Stannum (Latin) > stag
Actually this page is REALLY interesting.
This is a little chart - where they matched up the gods in astrology to the earliest known metals:
In astrology alchemy the seven heavenly bodies known to the ancients were associated with seven metals also known in antiquity:
Sun (Sol) Gold (Aurum) Mercury (Mercurius) Mercury (Hydrargyrum) Venus Copper (Cuprum) Moon (Luna) Silver (Argentum) Mars Iron (Ferrum) Jupiter Tin (Stannum) Saturn Lead (Plumbum)
Moon there is associated with Argentum - Silver.
I knew about the Cornish being the suppliers to the Greeks and co. of Tin way-back when. But there's a whole lot to it on that page:
It has links to the history of the entire periodic table of the elements!
The Cornish word for Tin was Stean - which also seems to be a derivision for the word Stannum.
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