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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Veers</b> <br /><small>Member # 661</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,10,7,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 10, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:42 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, I know its out, but haven't gone to look at it, much less buy it. If anyone has seen it, how is it? As good as the DS9 companion? Or worse? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,10,9,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 10, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:54 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I thought it wasn't out until sometime in June? At least, that's what they told me when I tried to order it. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Veers</b> <br /><small>Member # 661</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,10,10,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 10, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:54 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Actually, I think it was supposed to come out in April but it was moved to May. It's available for order at Amazon, which probably means it is out somewhere. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Veers</b> <br /><small>Member # 661</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,8,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:04 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hello?... Anybody heard anything?... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Veers</b> <br /><small>Member # 661</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,8,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:17 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Holy!...Reading the reviews on Amazon.com, this book is horrible! Just episode synopses, very little backstage stuff, 200 fewer pages than the DS9 Comp.... I'll have to see for myself, but looks like this book is not worth it. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Austin Powers</b> <br /><small>Member # 250</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,8,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:27 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Definitely fitting, considering the "quality" of the series itself. Honestly, who wants to hear tedious background-info about Voyager. How Ethan Phillips enjoyed pretending he cood cook (or act), how everybody stared at Jeri Ryan's tits, how Robert Beltrane mourns about never getting any good scripts etc. ... Yawn. <br /><br />Can't we all just be glad that the terrible mistake that was Voyager has finally found the way into its grave? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Phoenix</b> <br /><small>Member # 966</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,10,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:06 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Austin Powers:<br /><strong> Definitely fitting, considering the "quality" of the series itself. Honestly, who wants to hear tedious background-info about Voyager. How Ethan Phillips enjoyed pretending he cood cook (or act), how everybody stared at Jeri Ryan's tits, how Robert Beltrane mourns about never getting any good scripts etc. ... Yawn. <br /><br />Can't we all just be glad that the terrible mistake that was Voyager has finally found the way into its grave? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I liked Voyager. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,10,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:31 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <br /><br />I guess they didn't dare to be honest about the fact that this series didn't work, didn't have a purpose and wasn't very good. I've already ordered the companion, though. <br /><br />I'm seriously doubting if I should even buy Voyager DVD sets <i>if</i> they are ever released. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,10,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:34 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> On second thought... I've just canceled my order. I don't want to spend �25 on an episode list. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Futurama Guy</b> <br /><small>Member # 968</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:02 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Bravo! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:06 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <i>I liked Voyager.</i><br /><br />BURN HIM!!<br /><br /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Futurama Guy</b> <br /><small>Member # 968</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,11,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:11 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Mwa?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <br /><br />Admit it! <i>Voyager</i> was a <i>lie</i>!! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Phoenix</b> <br /><small>Member # 966</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:16 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Omega:<br /><strong> <i>I liked Voyager.</i><br /><br />BURN HIM!!<br /><br /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I realise that there were things it could have done that it didn't (conflicts between the Maquis and Starfleet crews, for example), and that some of the episodes (holodeck ones mostly) were absolutely dire, but on the whole I thought it was enjoyable, and it was nice to see a ship on its own without constant "go here, do this" Admirals and no support, in places where the Federation was unknown.<br /><br />Also, some of the episodes ("Message in a Bottle" and most of the Hirogen ones, for instance) I thought were excellent.<br /><br />And yes, I did like "Endgame". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,21,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:21 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Sure there were some good episodes (heck, even ENT has some good episodes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> ), but overall... I don't know. It could have been A LOT better. More Maquis/Starfleet conflict, and seeing effects of being seperated from home by 70,000 frikkin lightyears.<br /><br />Add to that the fact that after Voyager returned home, no-one will ever visit the DQ again in the foreseeable future, and so it was all a bit irrelevant. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Phoenix</b> <br /><small>Member # 966</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,29,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:29 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Harry:<br /><strong> Sure there were some good episodes (heck, even ENT has some good episodes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> ), but overall... I don't know. It could have been A LOT better. More Maquis/Starfleet conflict, and seeing effects of being seperated from home by 70,000 frikkin lightyears.<br /><br />Add to that the fact that after Voyager returned home, no-one will ever visit the DQ again in the foreseeable future, and so it was all a bit irrelevant. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but then every series has had undeveloped potential. There are awful episodes in all the series but that doesn't mean the series as a whole aren't enjoyable.<br /><br />I also think that Maquis/Starfleet conflicts probably would have gotten boring pretty quickly, and certainly couldn't have lasted all 7 years.<br /><br />By the way, I also enjoy Enterprise, as I can just watch it mumbling "alternate timeline, alternate timeline" whenever something dodgy happens. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Futurama Guy</b> <br /><small>Member # 968</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:42 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The percentage of Voyager episodes that I liked/disliked was the complete reciprocal of the episodes of DS9 that I liked/disliked. <br /><br />Those episodes/stories Phoenix mentioned, such as the Hirogen stuff, I liked; the fact that, too, the Hirogen got so far ahead of the Voyager (and had time to have a well established training station) by the time of "Flesh and Blood" was a reason why I didn't like the series. As much as I wanted to try to like it, it just had no definitive direction to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <br /><br />"Endgame" could have been a lot better, if it didn't piss so many of the Starfleet morals out the perverbial window. Janeway travels back in time, rewrites the timeline, equipped Voyager with a type of armor and other technologies that would have made Gene roll in his grave (if one existed) and for it, GOT promoted! Starfleet didn't send her back in time, she was on a USS Phoenix/Captain Maxwell-type vendetta because life wasn't going her way, true no one within that timeline will know, but the temporal prime directive seems to have something otherwise to say about that. Everything that that episode accomplished seemed to go against everything the Trek philosophy had established up to that point. It was for this, and the many many other points throughout, that the illogic of the series itself was what really fucked it up...<br /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Phoenix</b> <br /><small>Member # 966</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,17,12,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 17, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:54 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I liked the fact that Voyager got home because of Janeway, demonstrating that her determination to get her crew home really was that, and not just something to get Chakotay off her back.<br /><br />I certainly preferred it to what they could have done - "oh look there's a random wormhole that drops us in Sector 001, how convenient" or "Starfleet sent us a ship to get home, and this time it's for real".<br /><br />And it would appear from Nemesis that the uber-tech has been hushed up by Temporal Investigations (although they do seem to have perfected the tech from Enterprise which allows many decks inside a single shuttle and stuck it in the Enterprise E).<br /><br />EDIT: Having read <a href="http://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000402;p=4" target="_blank">this</a>, I would like to revoke all support I showed for Enterprise in my previous post. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Austin Powers</b> <br /><small>Member # 250</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,11,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:54 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> My opinion about Voyager is that the bad episode/good episode ratio is far worse than that of TNG/DS9 and even TOS.<br /><br />When I think about it, I can count the episodes I really like in VOY with two hands. On the other series it's just the other way round.<br />Most episodes of VOY were just annoying or boring. So much of what we had seen already, and considering that this series was supposed to be really different, what with the "being lost" premise and all. <br /><br />Come on, read Star Trek Series ? over in the Creativity Section and you will find far more enjoyment than with all of the 7 seasons of VOY. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,12,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Futurama Guy:<br /><strong>Those episodes/stories Phoenix mentioned, such as the Hirogen stuff, I liked; the fact that, too, the Hirogen got so far ahead of the Voyager (and had time to have a well established training station) by the time of "Flesh and Blood" was a reason why I didn't like the series. As much as I wanted to try to like it, it just had no definitive direction to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <br /><br />"Endgame" could have been a lot better, if it didn't piss so many of the Starfleet morals out the perverbial window. Janeway travels back in time, rewrites the timeline, equipped Voyager with a type of armor and other technologies that would have made Gene roll in his grave (if one existed) and for it, GOT promoted! Starfleet didn't send her back in time, she was on a USS Phoenix/Captain Maxwell-type vendetta because life wasn't going her way, true no one within that timeline will know, but the temporal prime directive seems to have something otherwise to say about that. Everything that that episode accomplished seemed to go against everything the Trek philosophy had established up to that point. It was for this, and the many many other points throughout, that the illogic of the series itself was what really fucked it up...<br /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">y'know, the Janeway that got promoted didn't actually go renegade and break the temporal time directive.. her future self did. Janeway got home because a future version of her lost her marbles and came back and made it happen.. the same thing happened in that DS9 ep where the future Odo sacrificed the whole colony of the descendants of the Defiant crew in order to make the Defiant not crash.. one can hardly be held responsible for future crimes that now wont happen (unless youre Braxton of course). <br /><br />of course the DS9 ep handled the morals in a more tangible manner.. Kira and Odo both have to live with the fact that their relationship is possible because of the misdeed of the future self of Odo.. thought provoking, and exactly the kind of story Gene would endorse. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cartmaniac</b> <br /><small>Member # 256</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,13,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:02 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> DS9 left passing moral judgement to you.<br /><br />VOY, OTOH, rammed its ethics down your throat.<br /> <br /> <small>[ May 18, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Cartmaniac ]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,15,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:24 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Boy am I sick of people who don't know anything about temporal mechanics writing sci-fi shows that involve time travel... *sigh*<br /><br />--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> <br /><small>Member # 73</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,16,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yeah! It's like those medical dramas that aren't written by doctor's. They're shit! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,19,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:34 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Indeed.<br /><br />--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,4,18,22,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">May 18, 2003</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Time travel shows should only be written by time travelers. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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