quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Jolly good! Then perhaps you can help me with the geography of San Francisco. I've been scratching my head over this one for ages and I can't work out where anything is supposed to be.
Maybe this will help...
The following are images from ST_TMP:DE:
...and this...
One of the reasons I asked who did these shots is that all the plates for these shots were done from the north side of the bridge, and one was flopped and altered to appear as if from the other side. But the dead giveaway is that the bridge is not symmetrical.
Specifically... 1. The north tower is right by the shoreline on the Marin side 2. The south tower stands out in the channel and has a caison around its base 3. Between the south end of the bridge and the cable anchorage an arch was built over the old Civil War era fort there
Great work! Having not even set foot on the american continent I've had to rely on rough maps and photos for reference as to where things are, good to meet someone who actually knows the area!
Ok, now try and place the shots from ST:IV, TNG & DS9. Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Ultra-cool shots and analyses!
Perhaps we should assume that the bridge has been altered in the intervening centuries, so that the ground around the north tower has eroded away and has been replaced by a large caisson that looks a bit like the Fort Point one? Are there any real views of the north pylon in any of the Trek movies? Or in DS9?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I think that the Federation just put up some holoemitters to confuse offworld tourists. It's like an MC Escher drawing! Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
If SanFran is full of gays in modern times, then where are they in the 24th centruy? Did they fire them into the sun with all the lawyers? Or are they some kind of slave-class that Starfleet uses to build Starships in orbit?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It would explain the interior decoration on the E-D. . .
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Don't forget the opening VFX shots of "Endgame", which has Voyager flying under the bridge (and presumably people standing on it and waving). Can Voyager even fit under that thing? Or the BoP, for that matter?
Mark
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Well, you could assume the bridge has been altered, but that's also not consistent with what's shown on screen, as some of the shots facing "north" are correct and others mistakenly use the southern view and the fort and its arch. Plus, the geography on each side of the bridge is such that it doesn't really allow such a thing to happen.
I got a kick out of that topmost image in that I could see so many recognizable landmarks, such as the Bay Bridge, and the Bank of America building. The funny thing about the image if you know what you're looking at the eastern span of the Bay Bridge (from Yerba Buena Island to Oakland) is readily apparent...however, even now they're building a replacement for it, so the span seen in that shot would be obstructed by the new bridge.
If anyone has Trek screen grabs of the SF area from other films and wants me to similarly "geographize" them, let me know.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Styrofoaman: If SanFran is full of gays in modern times, then where are they in the 24th centruy? Did they fire them into the sun with all the lawyers? Or are they some kind of slave-class that Starfleet uses to build Starships in orbit?
Didn't you know? They run the Federation! Queer Eye for the SpaceGuy.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"Can Voyager even fit under that thing? Or the BoP, for that matter?"
The BoP, sure. Even at high tide there's still a 220ft clearance between the deck and GG strait.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Whether it can fit under the bridge or not, flying a starship that close to a presumably occupied structure seems a neadlessly risky manuever to pull for a publicity stunt.
Don't cadets that look like helm officers get thrown out of starfleet for stuff like that?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
...And with Voyager being around 66m tall, that's a mighty tight fit even at low tide. Paris was obviously looking for something else for Starfleet to hate him for.
quote:The Academy (huh? the model says Starfleet Command.. I'm confused now
Yeah, that's Starfleet Command from DS9 Homefront/Paradise Lost.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That last pic of the medical building also says "Star Fleet" instead of "Starfleet" on the sign to the left under the globe.
Posted by BJ_O (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Don't forget the opening VFX shots of "Endgame", which has Voyager flying under the bridge (and presumably people standing on it and waving). Can Voyager even fit under that thing? Or the BoP, for that matter?
Wait a minute... I seem to remember that Voyager did NOT fly under the bridge, merely over it, complete with people looking UP from the bridge to watch it fly past.
B.J.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Whichever one they did, I want to see a blooper reel where one of Voyager's impulse engines cuts out and the whole ship goes careeing through the bridge.
Best. Homecoming. Ever.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
From the insanely descriptive DELTA BLUES synopsis:
"The vessel swoops down, clearing the top of the landmark bridge in the San Francisco Bay with a hair's breadth to spare, then swoops upward and executes a spiraling upward climb through the rainbow of celebratory fire. (Any guesses on who's behind the helm?) "
Whoops, I guess. Still, i'd like to see that crash. Perhaps we can challenge some of the gang on Sci-Fi Meshes to that end.
Mark
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: A bunch of San Fransisco shots
That's the Marin side, as you can tell by the tower being right next to the shore and you can see the caison around the south tower in the water to the right. The geography is a tad wonky, but not too bad. The buildings seen there are on and around the area of one of the old defensive gunnery points for the Golden Gate. In fact, some of the plates used in TMP:DE were shot from there. Looking at the pic at the start of this post, those buildings should be about where the lone tree is on the hill just below Alcatraz.
This is a weird one. I pulled out Cinefex #29 and looked at the painting and you can clearly see San Francisco in the background, this means it's on the Marin side again, but way down below the height of the bridge deck. This would put it east of the Bonita Lighthouse at the SW tip of Marin(I'm going to have to make a map to go with this thread)!
That HAS to be from in San Francisco, because you can't get a view like that from the Marin side. Just a ballpark guess but that looks like it might be from Fort Mason (due west of Fisherman's Wharf)...which is a bit east of where Kirk and Spock got picked up by Gillian Taylor in Trek IV.
In the view with the bridge, definitely the Marin side. This looks to have been shot from Fort Baker, just round the bend from Sausalito.
quote:Uhm.. I'm confused now. Are those STIV buildings specifically called UFP Headquarters? And how does it fit with Starfleet HQ and other buildings?
These Ent. buildings on the the SE end of Marin, the Trek VI ones are on the SW end.
Voyager does indeed fly over the bridge, not under it.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Better either of those than through it....
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
I made an additional image to help out...here it is... (damn...just noticed a typo in Sausalito...pardon!)
Oh yeah, and I forgot to label San Francisco proper...but you guys will figure it out.
The Trek-related items are in yellow. Real world stuff is labeled in white.
A few of the items above are best-guesses. For instance, the UFP HQ buildings seen in TVH look like they should be in the Marina in San Francisco, but since you can see San Francisco in the background (unless that's supposed to be the Marin headlands covered with buildings), it would have to be to the north, in a place where you really cannot get the view indicated.
I'm pretty sure the rest is relatively accurate.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
But it says "starfleet" on the building!
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune:
That last pic of the medical building also says "Star Fleet" instead of "Starfleet" on the sign to the left under the globe.
They did that in Nemesis on the graphic that showed the ships of the reserve fleet waiting to back up Enterprise beyond the Nebula. It said Star Fleet as well.
They better not be trying to change it on us. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I stood where the Academy should be.
It was cold and rainy....looks like weather control in in full effect in the Bay Area.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It looks like that Medical Center is an existing building with CGI lettering...
What about the Starfleet Communications Research HQ (The skyscraper-with-Starfleet-logo from Voyager). Was that somewhere in San Fransisco? Wait.. I remember a ST Magazine article on it that showed a CGI looking out from one it's windows showing the Golden Gate...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ug. ALL the windows shown from EVERY apartment and office show the fucking bridge.
Can you say "holographic viewers to make up for crappy natural views"?
Janeway's office? A broom closet in the sub basement.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
It has a nice view though....
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"What about the Starfleet Communications Research HQ (The skyscraper-with-Starfleet-logo from Voyager). Was that somewhere in San Fransisco?"
Wasn't that a real building in, like, Hong Kong or something?
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
quote:Wasn't that a real building in, like, Hong Kong or something?
Bet it has a nice view of the bridge...
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle:
quote:Wasn't that a real building in, like, Hong Kong or something?
Bet it has a nice view of the bridge...
There are some great views if SF where you can see just a hint of the bridge...notably if you come around the east end of Golden Gate Park and you see the top of the south tower peeking over the trees of the Presidio. A very non-typical view.
And hey, when is Star Trek gonna give the Bay Bridge its due?! Equal time! Equal time!
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Oh, and I find it funny that in Star Trek IV Uhura and Chekov don't know where Alameda is, given its proximity to San Francisco. One must assume they: a)never spent much time around Starfleet HQ in SF b)Alameda was renamed New Vulcan in 2207 c)Oh wait, no one now knows where Alameda is...
Posted by Joshua Bell (Member # 327) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: [QB]There are some great views if SF where you can see just a hint of the bridge...notably if you come around the east end of Golden Gate Park and you see the top of the south tower peeking over the trees of the Presidio. A very non-typical view.
That's pretty much exactly where I lived in SF (on 2nd Ave, half a block north of GGP). It's rather disturbing - you're walking to the bus one morning and the fog lifts... *WHAM*, gorgeous view of the bridge, glowing surreal colors in the sunlight.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron:
And hey, when is Star Trek gonna give the Bay Bridge its due?! Equal time! Equal time!
Never: the Bay Bridge is hideous. After the war, the Dominion destroyed the Bay Bridge from orbit as partial reparations for their attacking San Fransisco. It was the least they could do. Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron:
And hey, when is Star Trek gonna give the Bay Bridge its due?! Equal time! Equal time!
Never: the Bay Bridge is hideous. After the war, the Dominion destroyed the Bay Bridge from orbit as partial reparations for their attacking San Fransisco. It was the least they could do.
The Bay Bridge is not hideous...well, the western span isn't...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
If they'd jsut paint the damn thing a better color... It's so depressing.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: If they'd jsut paint the damn thing a better color... It's so depressing.
Actually, when it's got a fresh coat of silver on it it's stunning, but that does dull so fast it IS kinda depressing.
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: Oh, and I find it funny that in Star Trek IV Uhura and Chekov don't know where Alameda is...
Dude, I grew up in the Bay Area and had no idea where Alameda is...
(Personally I find the editing they did to the Monterey Bay Aquariam interesting... Compare to the original... open the QuickTime VR popup for a slightly better view. I love the area... )
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Be sure to wear some salad in your haaair!
Mister Neutron: "Actually, when it's got a fresh coat of silver on it it's stunning, but that does dull so fast it IS kinda depressing."
Why don't they coat it with aluminium? It doesn't dull, does it? Or was that a study in brainfartage just now?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron:
which is a bit east of where Kirk and Spock got picked up by Gillian Taylor in Trek IV.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Picked them up... for a night of efficient Vulcan sex.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I wonder where the Vulcan Compound is?
Where did the Bell Riots take place?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I believe T'Pol mentioned the Vulcan Compound being in Sausalito.
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
the Bell Riots were on the Paramount stock street lot
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Why don't they coat it with aluminium? It doesn't dull, does it? Or was that a study in brainfartage just now?"
Well, for one thing, we don't have aluminium in the US. Just aluminum.
And I'm pretty sure it doesn't stay eternally shiny.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
quote:Originally posted by Capped in Mic: the Bell Riots were on the Paramount stock street lot
wind out of the sails here...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Dispite writing many threatening letters, no building in Hong Kong has a giant starfleet emblem on it.
Yet.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What places on Earth have we seen in the 24th century??
San Fransico city part - Non Sequitur GGB - all the time Academy/Headquarters
New Orleans
LA is underwater
Penal colony in Wellington, NZ.
Cambridge
La Barre, France
And Iowa in the late 23rd.
We know that Lisbon and Alice Springs are still around.
They have never mentioned anything of the East Coast of the US (apart from Florida in Ent).
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Paris through the President's window.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
And I guess on the holodeck in "We'll always have Paris"
Was Jaresh Inyo in Paris in "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost"?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Alaska, in Nemesis.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The East Coast has been mentioned - Barclay's flat was in Boston.
And not *all* of LA need be underwater, as Janeway only speaks of "this place" while standing on a beach boulevard.
Does the Hawaii holoresort from VOY count? It supposedly *was* Hawaii (although which part?) and supposedly was also 24th cent.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
New York was never mentioned... maybe it's because it was turned into a maximum security prison!?!
And Cleveland wasn't either... I guess with the Hellmouth and everything... Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
In the TMP novel, Gene Roddenberry wrote of Los Angeles Island being a major suborbital transit hub, from long-distance to local access. So at least part of the LA basin is submerged by the 2260s.
And Tokyo R&D is mentioned in the TMG TM as being big in phaser research.
Yosemite was seen in TFF. We don't know where Sulu and Chekov were hiking in that same movie. And I don't know where Kirk's landing site was in the deleted opening scene of Generations.
As for New York, the only reference I've seen was the print of the alternate present "New Borg City".
Those are the only other locales I can think of that haven't already been mentioned.
--Jonah
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Yosemite was seen in TFF. We don't know where Sulu and Chekov were hiking in that same movie.
Mt. Rushmore in the deleted scene.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Was there an extra head? Zephram Cochranes? Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well we saw mid-21st century Montana in FC and assuming the Smithsonian never moved, Washington, DC is still around by the 24th century. Along the way, St. Petersburg changed its name to Leningrad again. Wherever Hoshi was teaching in the Enterprise pilot is still around. (Somewhere in South America, but I don't recall a specific city or location). And McCoy is from Mississippi IIRC.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Was there an extra head? Zephram Cochranes?
No, it was some black woman... Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Was there an extra head? Zephram Cochranes?
No, it was some black woman...
Is there a problem?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Dr. Crusher won a dancing competition in St. Louis.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: Is there a problem?
No...it just seems a little blatant, like to the point of being silly. "L00K GUY$!!!! BY TEH 23RD CENTURY, THERE HA$ BEEN A BLACK-WOMAN PRE$IDENT!!!!"
I mean, it's kind of like beating the audience over the head with it. I can see why the scene was deleted, it's pointless and silly.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply I was a racist-sexist or anything...
-MMoM Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
mccoy went to school in mississippi, doesnt mean he was from there. didnt he ever get a georgia reference, or is that from a non canon source?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ben Sisko's sister - Judith I think... was mentioned and the city she lives in.
Oh yeah and Hoshi reads a letter from Brisbane, Australia!!
She so sexay!
And are there such places as Broken Bow or Carbon Creek in the US??
Next we'll have to have a Trip episode called Dinkum Dog or something.
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
Broken Bow, Oklahoma is a real town, the ZIP code is 74728
When Braga was writing the ENT premiere, he originally had Broken Bow set in another state, it was a real town he knew of. He then changed it to say that it was in Oklahoma because he didn't want to refer to the real town.
What he didn't know was that there was also a Broken Bow in OK. Although they don't have cornfields, the biggest farm industry there is chicken farming i believe, but things could change in the next 148 years and upcoming world war(s) lol am i rite guyz
Carbon Creek, according to mapquest, exists in Alaska, Arizona and California.. i'm dubious that any of those could be the town from the ep, although im amused that the CA town is near Paramount, CA (and Garden Grove / Long Beach for Sublime fans)...
however, searches indicate that while it might not always be a town name, its a common name for coal mining areas.. did the ep give a state location?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
IIRC the New York hall of fame was mentioned in (DS9 "In The Cards"). As for Washington, I SERIOUSLY doubt that city came through WWIII unscathed. Either the Smithsonian was moved or the city was rebuilt to some degree. Either way it's not going to be called Washington DC anymore, probably Washington City, or just Washington...maybe even Otisburg. Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
Marseilles was shown in the alternate universe of "Non Sequiter" and in several holodeck representations (though all we see is the inside of a bar). So it's still around.
What was the city in the Midwest US where the Millenium Gate was being built in that horrible VOY ep "11:59"? I think it was in Indiana.
Cambridge was shown in "AGT..."
Tokyo's OK because they mentioned Tokyo R&D. Hoshi's from somewhere in Japan. The school she taught at was in Brazil.
Malcolm's parents live in Malaysia.
Idaho is mostly intact because that's where Kirk's uncle's barn was.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: did the ep give a state location?
I think it was Pennsylvania, which would make sense.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bond, James Bond: Idaho is mostly intact because that's where Kirk's uncle's barn was.
Must be one big barn...
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
So that Kirk's ego could fit in...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Depending a bit on how WWIII was fought, I find it quite plausible that the biggest cities would have had better odds of survival than the smaller ones. There could have been advanced missile defenses in place, but they'd have protected Washington better than Tuscaloosa. Or bioweapons might have been unleashed to kill city populations, but their delivery systems would have inflicted relatively little physical damage. Enough perhaps to level a small city, but not a large one.
Riker did insist that "major cities were destroyed". Yet we never saw any hint of war damage to the real estate in any episode or movie. Perhaps the bioweapon theory is the best angle here. Or perhaps instead of nukes, the parties used orbital bombardment techniques that destroyed cities block by block, skipping some blocks and resulting in the skylines we witness in TNG.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye Neutron weapons? Only kills organics and leaves the buildings standing, dontcha know. Gotta get me one o' them bueaties.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Worf (or his parents?) once beamed over to the E-D from Bobruisk, Belarus.
Then there's of course the Antwerp Conference, obviously held in Antwerp, Belgium.
Picard came from LaBarre, France. Except that there is no such place (yet) in France. We also saw France in "All Good Things" .
Including Paris, I guess that's all we heard of continental Europe (what was it called again? The European Hegemony!?) in Trek..
Trip once mentioned some observatory in Anchorage.
And there also seems to be a Garrett Island somewhere in the 2060s. And of course, there someday will be a new continent called Atlantis...
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
That guy trying to kiss up to Riker mentioned his grandfather was Canadian too....
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think Worf also mentioned Minsk as a good city for O'Brian to live in. I forget what the other suggestions were, although I'm sure Sisko would have said New Orleans.
As for how WWIII was fought, I think orbital bombardment was certainly one method used, given that (other than breaking the cease fire) the Borg attack on Resurrection didn't seam at all unfamiliar to Cochrane or Sloane. However Riker said MOST of the major cities had been destroyed, not just some or the majority. Remember that cities don't require a direct hit from a tactical nuke to be destroyed. Economic collapse can do it just as easy, if a city's infrastructure ceases to function then fires tend to burn out of control, looters cause widespread damage and civil unrest, the dead rot where they fall, disease, famine, drought, pestilence...you get the idea. Of course this is the kind of damage that would have happened after the war. So while it it possible that allot of nukes would have been thrown around, most of the targets would probably have been major military targets. I can certainly see Cheyenne Mountain being little more than a broken hill by the 23rd Century.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Leningrad in STIV.
Which, of course, raises the question of whether or not there was another Russian Revolution (possibly post-WWIII?) or SF Command just has really old maps.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Well.. one of the Oberths was launched from (!????) Baikonur, in the (ahem) USSR.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Eastern Siberia is probably not a priority target. And Harry, The Rozhenkos beamed over from "Earth Station Bobruisk". Now before you say it was a ground-based station, the facility the Enterprise was docked at in that same episode was Earth Station McKinley. Stands to reason there was still a city underneath the station's orbit (or mountain in the latter's case), but no 100% guarantee.
Where was Devinoni Ral born? I know they said European Hegemony, but I think I remember a city, too.
When was Leningrad mentioned in Star Trek IV?
Have we had any mention of Central or South America, besides Hoshi's school in Brazil?
For that matter, any mention of India or Southeast Asia?
Surprising dearth of places in what was recently called the "Third World". I find it telling that up until TNG, all references were to the "Third World War", rather than to WWIII...
--Jonah
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:When was Leningrad mentioned in Star Trek IV?
When they list severe weather conditions on Earth.
I remember LaForge being born in the African Confederation. And conjecture has it that Uhura was born in the United States of Africa. Of course, there are certainly enough (little) countries for two multinational organisations on the African continent.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Leningrad in STIV.
Which, of course, raises the question of whether or not there was another Russian Revolution (possibly post-WWIII?) or SF Command just has really old maps.
Or Leningrad has never been renamed to St. Petersburg in the Trekverse.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Ezri mentions Rio de Jeinero as a good place to live (Jadzia loved it), Keiko's mother lives in Kumamoto, Japan. Venezuela is still around. And Archer grew up in New York.
Posted by Intruder1701 (Member # 880) on :
Also another question I came up with is that if Starfleet Command is based in San Fransisco and presummably most of Kirk's crew were probaly familier with the area in the 24th Century how come Uhura and Chekov couldn't find their way to Alameda in ST:IV?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
20th centruy SF probably looks a lot different than 23rd century SF.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Except they didn't seem to know where the place is at all, which I find strange for two people who graduated from an Academy based in the Bay Area. Unless Alameda somehow dropped off the face of the earth, It's like someone going to college for four years in New York City and not knowing where Brooklyn is.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Considering that the scene was largly done for laughs and most of it was improvised I wouldn't read too much into it. Logically they could have just hailed a cab, but then they probably didn't know what a cab is.
However, they seamed to know of Alameda, they just didn't know how to get there on foot. I presume that in the 23rd Century there would have been an extensive subterranian rail system (as I've drawn on my map) and very few people would actually walk the 15 miles from the Presideo, across the bay to Alameda.
Even if they did, as Spike pointed out the city would have changed quite a bit over the centuries and after scrutinising maps of San Francisco and the bay area for the last few days, I can say that it's a very big place and I can imagine that it's very easy to get lost at ground level. Especially if allot of the street names and alignments are different than what you might be used to.
There is also the slightly ironic possibility that Chekov (a former navigator) has a poor sense of direction, remember that both he and Sulu managed to get lost in ST:V?
While we're naming places on Earth which are still there in the 23rd & 24th centuries, I believe one of the DS9 cargo labels was addressed to the Central Bureau of Rehabilitation in Stockholm, Sweden. The other address was of course Tantalus V. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Was the Antwerp Conference - the one where that Founder blew up the Romulans, Humans and Tholian observer?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohh. That 'ghost' from Paste Tense said he wanted to flee to Tasmania.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yes.
I seriously doubt that Tazmania is likely to go anywhere in the next few centuries.
Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :
This is the list that I have compiled, though looking at some of the posts above, I appear to have missed a couple of places. BTW what episode mention St. Louis and Dr. Crusher's competition?
Alice Springs, Australia�Vanishing Point Anchorage, Alaska�Fight or Flight Atlanta, Georgia�The Xindi Bergen, Norway�The Maquis, Part I Bloomington, Indiana�Imperfection Boise, Idaho�City on the Edge of Forever Boston, Massachusetts�Pathfinder Brisbane, Australia�Dear Doctor Broken Bow, Oklahoma�Broken Bow Buenos Aires, Argentina�Renaissance Man Calgary, Canada�First Duty Canton, Ohio�11:59; The Andorian Incident Carbon Creek, Pennsylvania�Carbon Creek Chicago, Illinois�Manhunt; Repression Dakar, Senegal�Evolution Death Valley, California�Vanishing Point Duluth, Minnesota�The Xindi Florence, Italy�Concerning Flight Kenmare, Ireland�Breaking the Ice Kota Baharu, Malaysia�Silent Enemy Labarre, France�Chain of Command, Part II Leningrad, USSR�I, Mudd; The Voyage Home Lisbon, Portugal�Homefront London, England�The Big Goodbye Los Angeles, California�Future�s End Madison, Wisconsin�Vanishing Point Marseille, France�Non Sequitur New Orleans, Louisiana�Homefront New York City, New York�City on the Edge of Forever Paris, France�The Undiscovered Country Panama City, Florida�Fusion Pensacola, Florida�Silent Enemy Portland, Oregon�Past Tense, Part I Oakland, California�Endgame, Part I; Rogue Planet Saint Moritz, Switzerland�Waking Moments San Antonio, Texas�Manhunt San Francisco, California�Time�s Arrow Sausalito, California�Broken Bow Sinagpore�Cogenitor Tarpon Springs, Florida�The Crossing Teaneck, New Jersey�The Outrageous Okona Valdez, Alaska�The Icarus Factor
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
You forgot Tokyo, Japan, mentioned also in Star Trek IV now that I remember the atmospheric conditions scene. Plus Wellington, New Zealand, in "Caretaker". Plus Bobruisk, Belarus, from "Family". And the 'Dancing Doctor' St. Louis stuff was from "Data's Day".
Were all of those up there 22nd century and later? I seem to remember some of those references being related to 21st century or earlier, such as Portland in "Past Tense"...
--Jonah
P.S. I notice you omitted the larger regions, such as the African Confederation, United States of Africa, the European Hegemony, Ireland, Scotland (Aberdeen, if you accept the reams of written Trek material), Brazil, Iowa (Riverside, again referencing commonly-accepted written material).
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Timo:
Depending a bit on how WWIII was fought, I find it quite plausible that the biggest cities would have had better odds of survival than the smaller ones. There could have been advanced missile defenses in place, but they'd have protected Washington better than Tuscaloosa. Or bioweapons might have been unleashed to kill city populations, but their delivery systems would have inflicted relatively little physical damage. Enough perhaps to level a small city, but not a large one. __________________________________________________
Your theory would also fit with a Counterforce Strike. It's designed to take out as much military hardware and personnel as possible (especially nuclear weapons silos) while limiting civilian casualties as best as can be done considering many military bases are located within the heart of or on the outskirts of major cities like San Diego and San Francisco, etc. __________________________________________________
Riker did insist that "major cities were destroyed". Yet we never saw any hint of war damage to the real estate in any episode or movie. Perhaps the bioweapon theory is the best angle here. Or perhaps instead of nukes, the parties used orbital bombardment techniques that destroyed cities block by block, skipping some blocks and resulting in the skylines we witness in TNG. __________________________________________________
There are a heck of a lot more open green areas in the future cities then there are now. This could be because the buildings they stood under were destroyed and have been covered over. There are far less and more widely spaced structures then modern cities.
To add to the above list there is also the (major) city of Mojave, California as shown in "The Cage".
Santa Monica, California in "Future's End".
Upstate New York is fine because Archer was born there according to "North Star".
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Upstate New York is fine because Archer was born there according to "North Star".
That depends on your definition of fine. For all we know Archer could have been born in a temporary hospital amidst the ruins of Westchester.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bond, James Bond: ...considering many military bases are located within the heart of or on the outskirts of major cities like San Diego and San Francisco, etc.
As to San Francisco, once upon a time there was a lot of military around here, but there aren't significant military bases in the Bay Area any more. The Presidio is a national park, Alameda isn't a naval base any more, Moffet Field is NASA, etc.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...Scotland (Aberdeen, if you accept the reams of written Trek material)..."
I could be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Scotty mention Aberdeen in "Wolf in the Fold"? It seems like he definitely mentioned some Scottish city, at least.
Posted by Intruder1701 (Member # 880) on :
You also forgot the mention the Picard Family Vineyards in I think it was Le Havre France.
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
LaBarre it was called, been mentioned last page
Posted by Intruder1701 (Member # 880) on :
Oh there it is. See, when you get to be the ripe of age of 23 your eyesight isnt as good as it used to be.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
In "A City on the Edge of Forever", Captain Kirk mentions Boise, Idaho and Inner Mongolia.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
See what happens when Enterprise has no tech to speculate on?!? We're forced to consider any little thing just to keep the geeky parts of our brains active and not start another thread about the BOBW fleet or the length of the Defiant.
Curse you techless episodes!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You know, cities do have a tendency to get rebuilt from time to time. You can go visit Jericho, after all. Or, for that matter, Hiroshima.
The dude from "The Price" was born in, I believe, Brussels. Well, I guess I could just check the encyclopedia.
"...Brussels, in the European alliance" is what it says. European alliance is a kind of clunky name though, if you ask me. I'm sure Earth's government could get away with just calling it "Europe."
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
The EA is probably just the Trek version of the EU.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Just an addendum to this topic, but I think I figured out where Kirk's apt. in TWOK and TSFS is supposed to be. I was looking at an old behind the scenes photo where film production crew memebers are setting up miniature buildings outside the windows of the Kirk apartment set. Behind the model buildings is a cyclorama of the bay area (left over from another movie), from which I can tell that the approximate point of view for the cyclorama is either Russian Hill or Telegraph Hill (where Coit Tower is located). If the latter, Kirk's more or less above (and slightly south of) Fisherman's Wharf.
The Northern California Movies site I linked to claims Russian Hill, but from my perspective I'm thinking Telegraph Hill.
The distant city lights seen to the right of Kirk in the image above would be Sausalito. Those just to the left of his head would be Fort Baker, which is where Starfleet HQ is situated in Enterprise. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That is one hideous fucking apartment.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You are down on everything.
The furniture could use an updating, though, OK.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I always thought it was quite a cool apartment - well when it's a moving picture.
So is this on the south side or the north side of the bay? Close into San Francisco or out near the heads - which is where the GG Bridge is isn't it?
Forgive me if I've fucked that all up - I've never been to San Francisco - my mental map is made up from what I've seen on Trek! And maybe a map here or there (probably posted here) (possibly in this thread even).
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I always thought it was quite a cool apartment - well when it's a moving picture.
So is this on the south side or the north side of the bay? Close into San Francisco or out near the heads - which is where the GG Bridge is isn't it?
Forgive me if I've fucked that all up - I've never been to San Francisco - my mental map is made up from what I've seen on Trek! And maybe a map here or there (probably posted here) (possibly in this thread even).
Here, again, is a map I made a few years ago. Kirk's apt. is either at the point labeled Coit Tower/Telegraph Hill, or slightly to the left of that on Russian Hill.
San Francisco is on the south side of the Golden Gate, the channel that connects the Bay to the ocean, as such, it's neither south or north bay. Kind of "above the middle of the bay". The bay is to the east, the Golden Gate is to the north, the Pacific Ocean is to the west, and the burbs are south. Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Seeing the "relative proximity" of all the Command structures, I'm wondering iff the whole area including the Presidio, the Bridge itself, & the "anchor ends" aren't set aside as "Federation territory" with the whole area being a massive sort of historical heritage area. That way, Starfleet could keep people from spraying "Ixkgnortgvkt rules!!" on the old buildings & such.
Also, I never liked the idea of the Federation Council being in San Francisco. There were no windows in the chambers, so how do we know it's not in Brussels or Geneva or Berlin or somewhere else it would make more sense for the Federation President (based in Paris) to get to?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think what we saw in IV was even the actual Council. Too small, and the seats were filled with Starfleet officers. It makes more sense for it to be some Council security committee, which could very well be meeting somewhere in Starfleet headquarters.
Anyway, while it makes a lot of sense to keep your executive and legislature in physical proximity (even, I'd argue, three hundred years in the future with transporters and really sweet broadband), thus leading towards the Council being somewhere in Europe, if not itself in Paris, it also makes sense to keep your military headquarters close at hand too.
Or does it? Certainly the case could be made today that a distributed govenment (physically) is a good idea, to prevent all your leadership from dying from weaponized bird flu on the same day. On the other hand, anyone coming to blow up Starfleet Command has already traveled billions of miles; the Atlantic is not likely to present a problem.
Plus it seems like a good idea for the president to be in walking distance of the top military leaders, in case, say, rogue Starfleet officers attempt a coup and somehow shut off power to the entire planet.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ahhh - I always thought that airtram station in TMP was in the Presidio area. So did the BoP in TVH fly under the GGbridge from West to East or East to West - I always thought they pointed to the left with the "look!" and i assumed they were approaching from the west.
Where is the cetacean institue?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
The Monterey Bay Aqu--er, the "Cetacean Institute" is in Monterey, outside the scope of that map.
Simon: I agree with the idea that that was NOT the entire Council shown. In Prime Directive, the idea of the "general council" was mentioned, with representatives at the system-wide level; perhaps something similar was shown.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
They shot the Cetacean Institute at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but it was supposed to be in Sausilito, North Bay.
On the subject of Kirk's apartmentL So my sister lives on the northern edge of Russian Hill (Woo! I'll be watching her house while she's away next week!) Anyway, so I'm inclined to think it is Russian Hill owing to the absence of Alcatraz.
If only there were some program that would let us see different vantages and geography. aside: (OK, I will be this nerdy, but only because it's Wrath of Khan)
And for Telegraph Hill:
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Okay. I did some more detective work and I know where Kirk's apartment is. The cyclorama used is from The Towering Inferno (you can tell because of the horizon line), which means Kirk's place is like 100 or more stories up.
I did some poking around about that film and figured out where the building was supposed to be. It was here:
This puts it roughly on the south side of Market Street at the start of Geary Blvd., between 2nd and 3rd Streets, more or less due south of the Transamerica Pyramid. The view LOOKS like it's somewhere between Russian and Telegraph Hills only because the POV is from so high up.
Hell, let's just say Kirk lives IN the Towering Inferno, then we can just say this is a pic of his home turf (the tallest building)...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What is that building really - or is it another building that you've just photoshopped? I would assume that the city has more higher buildings in that time too.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Er, that's a picture from classic 70's high-celeb-bodycount disaster movie The Towering Inferno, surely? As Neuty said.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well, going all the way back to page one.
There are quite a few candidates over on the left near the transamerica building.
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
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