Simple question. How would you like to see Star Trek develop the next series.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
*sigh*
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Hardcore Vulcan porn. Obviously.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
I thought that was where "Enterprise" is heading?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Keeping my fingers crossed, WizArtist.
Posted by Intruder1701 (Member # 880) on :
Maybe a series based on the holosuite programs "Vulcan Love Slave"
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Starring Dr Selar!
Better yet: a whole series set on a ship's holodeck made up to be an old irish village! There could be lots of intresting episodes on hologram rights and their struggle for equality and shit like that.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
In all seriousness, no. After Enterprise concludes, Star Trek needs to go on a long hiatus. Everyone associated with Trek needs to move on and do other projects. Trek needs to be ignored and allowed to rest for a good long while.
After a significant and sufficient amount of time has passed, and assuming that there is a strong fan support for it, then we can start talking about new ideas for a series. I love Star Trek (warts and all), but it's beginning to remind me of an old prostitute who's taken too many trips to the alley behind the docks.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Jesus wept, Siggy, don't encourage them. We just had a thread all about this a month or so ago, started by Snay I think. It all came down to the same thing, stupid fanboyish ideas by people who freely admit they will watch Star Trek no matter how bad it is.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Actually, the last post in that thread was on Halloween, and I apparently missed it at the time. Interesting thread, that one is.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I cannot get enough Star Trek.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I've gotten too much I think. ENT seems bland, which is either bad writing/acting, or I am tired of it having been going for 15 years..... Aren't there people here that weren't born yet when TNG started this all up????
X-Files lasted 10 years, Stargate is starting it's 9th.....
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Stargate is half-way through its seventh, and will have an eighth next year. And wasn't X-Files on for nine? Under any circumstances, I want no more Trek unless it's written by someone like Straczynski or the original team of Andromeda. People with an idea, instead of a mandate to make more Trek.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Perhaps a hiatus IS what is really needed. I have thought about a Trek/Timeship series but I feel it would end up like this whole Xindi/temporal war crap.
I had even thought about a "Save the Kelvins" series where Trek goes to their galaxy to rescue them.....it was a ragtag fleet....DARN!
It's amazing in such a vast universe to have so quickly run out of good story options.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I still think Enterprise will turn out to have all taken place in a holodeck in Barclay's apartment. Barclay is FutureGuy. That explains T'Pol's skin tight, cleavage uniforms.
I had a dream about T'Pol the other night that came pretty close to Vulcan Porn. Maybe I should write it up for the pilot episode of Star Trek: Vulcan Heat.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist: It's amazing in such a vast universe to have so quickly run out of good story options.
38 years is "quickly"?
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
They are not out of ideas. It's just a matter of getting More Trek out there so they can rake in the $$$. Why bother with somthing new and original when you can recycle plot-lines ad nausem?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Good ideas did not exist before the Internet.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, I wasn't advocating my idea as an immediate successor to Enterprise. I was suggesting a way in which a starship-based series could perhaps capture some of the story elements which made DS9 (in my opinion) a hit - long term involvement with Bajor, Cardassia, and the Gamma Quadrant. Obviously, my concept would have been for substantially smaller arcs, but I think might have allowed for greater emotional envolvement on the part of the audience with whichever planetary crisis of the half-season the ship was dealing with at the time.
If it came across that I thought this idea would solely "save" Trek, or that I wanted to see it on the air anytime even remotely soon, please accept this clarification: no. I think Star Trek is in a grave (and, er, yes I do) need of a long hiatus - ten years sounds good as a minimum, and a completely new "imagining" team if it ever is brought back to the small/big screen.
In closing ...
I LUUUUUUV YOU MAAAAAAN!
Posted by Capt.Blair245 (Member # 1113) on :
You go do that.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Don't tell me what to do. I don't love you, maaaan.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Of course, DS9 was only a "hit" with the fringe elements of Trekdom.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
That's because the majority of Trekdom has no taste, apparently! :0
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
recycling plots is acceptable as long as you can maintain interest with the variation. How has James Bond lasted for as long as it has with the exact same formula to EVERY movie? why did we watch Pinky & The Brain?
because we KNEW they were recycling the same plot again, we just want to see how impressively they do it. the problem is that Trek rarely tries to do anything impressive when it is recycling story ideas that are tired to begin with... did "The Naked Time" deserve to have "Naked Now" made from it? was there anything about "Shuttlepod One" that was more impressive than "The Galileo Seven" ?
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
quote:recycling plots is acceptable as long as you can maintain interest with the variation. How has James Bond lasted for as long as it has with the exact same formula to EVERY movie? why did we watch Pinky & The Brain?
Then there's the ULTIMATE RECYCLING!....
THE A-TEAM
I love it when a plan comes together....
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Short-term, yes. Long term, you need to shake up the status quo from time to time to keep from stagnating, and do it well. That's where Trek has been fumbling recently.
You had three years of the Original Series, then they shook things up with the Animated Series -- and it was about as good as it could be for a mid-'70s half-hour kids' cartoon.
Then you had a movie that shook things up a lot, but suffered from insufficient post-production time.
Then you had a trilogy of movies that shook things up a whole lot more, and quite nicely, too, as long as you ignored the finer details that got in the way of the story *heh*.
Then we got Next Generation, which jolted the status quo in a big way, and continued to do so through its first four years before it started sliding down the slope of sameness.
DS9 was a radical departure, and reinvented itself several times more in pretty huge ways, and thanks to a story arc lasting through the latter five seasons, it was able to mostly avoid the dangers of status quo.
In there, Next Generation whimpered its way through a depressingly bad movie, and Voyager started off on the wrong foot, stumbled through its first two seasons, then fell flat on its face and slid through the next five, serving as the discordant drone punctuated by the sharp screeches of two more increasingly bad Next Generation movies.
Once Voyager ended in its disgustingly predictable way, we were treated to an occasionally-well-written series that seems to be about nothing in particular, and in the midst of that, we got a final Next Generation movie that was the viewing experience of stepping on a set of inflated bagpipes.
By this point, the status is very quo.
To go from here, things would need to be shaken up but familiar. The problem with Enterprise is the same one faced if you were to go the other direction. We already know the ships from the 2150s, like the ones from the 29th century, are too divergent from what we recognise as Star Trek. There are a lot of stories still waiting to be told in the 23rd and 24th centuries, as the novels have recently proven quite dramatically.
If you must have an Enterprise, the stories of the -B and -C are all but untold. Pike commanded the Enterprise for eleven years before Kirk got it, and April before him. I personally think Enterprise would have been a much better show if it centered around the origins of the Constitution class and Captain Robert April. Then the stories might have worked better.
Also might be nice to go forward a decade or two from the timeframe fo Nemesis and see the turn of the 25th century. I think I'll go ove rinto Starships and Technology and start a thread about what technologies Our Heroes discovered to go fast or far that were utterly ignored after that one instance, and see if we can hammer out a good scope of travel, propulsive technological base, and what sorts of stories that new frontier makes possible. And to do that, we'll have to figure out what it was about the four (yes, I said four) series so far that worked and what it was that didn't...
--Jonah
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: You had three years of the Original Series, then they shook things up with the Animated Series --
What? By drawing yellow lines around people so they could go into space and by replacing SUPER CHARACTER Chekov with SUPER CHARACTER A'Rex (or whatever his name was)?
quote:Then we got Next Generation, which jolted the status quo in a big way, and continued to do so through its first four years...
What? By adding collars on to the uniforms? Yeah, "Farpoint" was different to what had come before, but the next few seasons were about refining the show, not "shaking things up".
quote:In there, Next Generation whimpered its way through a depressingly bad movie, and Voyager started off on the wrong foot
Generations wasn't great, but it was hardly "depressingly bad". And Voyager started off fantastically. "Caretaker" was great as a standalone, while still containing lots of potential. Which they failed to realise.
quote:two more increasingly bad Next Generation movies.
Er, so "First Contact" is worse than "depressingly bad"? Jesus...
quote:And to do that, we'll have to figure out what it was about the four (yes, I said four) series so far that worked and what it was that didn't...
Great. Er, so which one are you leaving out? Because even the oh-so-amazingly-woopee DS9 had problems.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam:
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: You had three years of the Original Series, then they shook things up with the Animated Series --
What? By drawing yellow lines around people so they could go into space and by replacing SUPER CHARACTER Chekov with SUPER CHARACTER A'Rex (or whatever his name was)?
Well, golly. Forcefields instead of spacesuits, and even more distinctly alien crew members I thought did kind of represent a noticable shift from the previous three years...
quote:
quote:Then we got Next Generation, which jolted the status quo in a big way, and continued to do so through its first four years...
What? By adding collars on to the uniforms? Yeah, "Farpoint" was different to what had come before, but the next few seasons were about refining the show, not "shaking things up".
No, dippo. By jumping 75 years forward from the time period we'd been mucking about in. By giving us a ship over twice as long and many times more massive than the one we were familiar with, that held a crew of over a thousand instead of the ~430 of the original. With families and children and so on. Jesus.
And I think the introduction of the Borg, and their later abduction of Picard, were a bit beyond "refinement of concept".
quote:
quote:In there, Next Generation whimpered its way through a depressingly bad movie, and Voyager started off on the wrong foot
Generations wasn't great, but it was hardly "depressingly bad". And Voyager started off fantastically. "Caretaker" was great as a standalone, while still containing lots of potential. Which they failed to realise.
Generations played like a mediocre TV episode with better lighting and sets. Kirk's death felt cheap. I don't know anyone who accepts a 20-year-old BoP destroying the Enterprise... I have a big list of major story gripes, and that doesn't even get into minor nits like Scotty being there.
Voyager wrote itself into a corner early on without realizing it, and by the time they saw the mistake the characters had become too well-established. The pilot was reasonably well-written, with two significant holes. I never got a satisfactory explanation of what the tumors were supposed to do to help the Ocampa. And Janeway needed to blow up the Array only after circumstances proved beyond any hope of pulling a last-minute miracle out of their asses to use it to get home and then destroy it after (timed explosives, or whatever).
From there, we were subjected to a couple years of Gilligan's Island in space. Week after week of "we found a way home! Aw, it didn't work..." wore a bit thin. And while getting home was indeed an important consideration, and something to keep in mind -- didn't these retards join Starfleet in the first place so they could explore? The mood needed to be more "We're on our own... Cool!" rather than "We're on our own... Angst!"
quote:
quote:two more increasingly bad Next Generation movies.
Er, so "First Contact" is worse than "depressingly bad"? Jesus...
Yes. I don't like the new Enterprise. I hate the new Borg. I hate the Borg Queen. I don't like the new uniforms. I hate the way they portrayed Cochrane. I hate the bad narrative jumps. I liked the Phoenix, the spacesuits, and the phaser rifles, and that's about it.
quote:
quote:And to do that, we'll have to figure out what it was about the four (yes, I said four) series so far that worked and what it was that didn't...
Great. Er, so which one are you leaving out? Because even the oh-so-amazingly-woopee DS9 had problems.
I leave out Enterprise, the show that isn't really about anything. First there's the Temporal Cold War, and then that sort of fades away. Then they're heading out ot explore, then they're not. Now they're hiding out in the middle of nowhere. We'll see how long that lasts.
And I know each series had its problems, but I'm looking at the overall structure of the way they played out, rather than nitpicking them into oblivion on an episode-by-episode basis.
--Jonah
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
I too, felt Kirk's death was CHEAP. What got me was that when they choose to leave the Nexus, Picard chooses the LAST MINUTE to stop Alex and his rocket Droogie rather than going to a point WELL before that when there would be no rush to stop him. It also flew in the face of Kirk's statement in V that "I always knew I would die alone". Though, technically speaking, having Picard there is equivalent to a lonely death.
I also feel Voyager fell into the abyss known as the Brennan-Braga Nebula where, if you can't find your way through a story line, you stick some babe in a skin-tight suit and turn the thermostat down 30 degrees
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Well, golly. Forcefields instead of spacesuits, and even more distinctly alien crew members I thought did kind of represent a noticable shift from the previous three years...
That's not shaking up a series. That's making minor tweaks that don't amount to anything at all. There were no story avenues that the forcefields allowed that would have been prevented if they'd have used spacesuits. And having alien crew members would have been interesting if they'd actually had personality. They didn't. They were eye candy, such as it was. The "status quo" remained well and truely static.
quote:No, dippo. By jumping 75 years forward from the time period we'd been mucking about in. By giving us a ship over twice as long and many times more massive than the one we were familiar with, that held a crew of over a thousand instead of the ~430 of the original. With families and children and so on. Jesus.
Yes, and all that was done in the pilot. But, again, you're listing stuff that had no relevence on story. If the ship had been half the size, would it have affected a single story of the seven season run? No. If it had had a crew of 430 instead of 1014, would it have made a difference to a single story? No? Hell, even the families only provided, what, about 7 stories in total? That's hardly earth shattering for a series that numbered over 150. Especially since most of the kid ones were, well, crap.
quote:And I think the introduction of the Borg, and their later abduction of Picard, were a bit beyond "refinement of concept".
No. It was a story element. Picard was a borg for two episodes. It was mentioned again in "I, Borg". It was touched upon in "Decent". That's it. 5 episodes. That's not shaking up the status quo. Not like the Dominion, who were in a large number of episodes, and who eventually ended up shaping the course that the series took. Season 6 of DS9 would have been very different if the Dominion hadn't been introduced. Season 6 of TNG would have been identical without the Borg.
Shaking up the status quo would have been killing Picard. Shaking up the status quo would have been devestating the Federation (and no, a handful of mentions of a weakened Starfleet in season 4 don't count). Shaking up the Status Quo would have been having Riker turn evil for a season, turning Troi into a witch while making her have a lesbian relationship and then making HER turn evil, or introducing Picard's sister who is actually a key to, er, something or other.
quote:And while getting home was indeed an important consideration, and something to keep in mind -- didn't these retards join Starfleet in the first place so they could explore? The mood needed to be more "We're on our own... Cool!" rather than "We're on our own... Angst!"
Are we watching the same show? Because a large number of ones I saw didn't even mention the fact that the crew were a billion quillion miles away from home. And everyone seemed to be pretty happy, too.
quote:Yes. I don't like the new Enterprise. I hate the new Borg. I hate the Borg Queen. I don't like the new uniforms. I hate the way they portrayed Cochrane. I hate the bad narrative jumps. I liked the Phoenix, the spacesuits, and the phaser rifles, and that's about it.
*shrug* You have different taste. I'd point out that the Borg were scary and the uniforms were much cooler than the old ones, but it's just a matter of taste. Obviously, yours is wrong.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"It also flew in the face of Kirk's statement in V that 'I always knew I would die alone'. Though, technically speaking, having Picard there is equivalent to a lonely death."
Also, technically speaking, Kirk wasn't a fortune teller. Just because he convinced himself he would die alone, that doesn't mean it was true.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Are you questioning the wisdom of the Kirk-Unit?!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, we are talking about a man who indiscriminately put his penis inside whatever qualified as "female" on every planet he visited.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Yes, but he was making love not war for the greater glory of the Federation, so those deeds are easily excused. B)
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist: I too, felt Kirk's death was CHEAP. ...It also flew in the face of Kirk's statement in V that "I always knew I would die alone".
Kirk did make that statement when speaking to Spock, but he also said in that movie that he knew he wouldn't die because the two of them (Spock & McCoy) were with him, so you could interpret it that he could die if either Spock or McCoy specifically weren't there, which on Veridian III, they weren't.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I don't think so. He says, "I'll die alone." The logic being "I didn't die, because there were other people there with me. Specifically, you two." If he meant McCoy and Spock, and them only, then "I'll die without you two there" would have made more sense.
And I'm amazed we've got this far without a Londo joke.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I can't think of an applicable one...
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I'm altering the parameters of my death. Pray I don't alter it further... (?)
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
No, no, no... Londo, not Lando. Know your sci-fi character classics, man. B)
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
It was between that and, '185 Vorlons walk into a bar. Bartender says, "We don't serve Vorlons here." 185 Vorlons say, "..."'. So I went with the Lando joke even if it made me look dumb.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
"VIR!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I was more talking about the whole "Kirk predicting how he'd die", in relation to Londo actually knowing how he'd die.
Morons.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, if you wanted the joke done right, why didn't you just do it yourself, eh? EH? Stupid boy.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
We all have our Keepers.....apparently this forum's is PsyLiam
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Actually, that's Forum Competitions.
Which reminds me, I really should go in there occasionally.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yes, I'm so glad I recommended you for that. . .
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I stopped watching Enterprise in the middle of the first season, not that I had a choice. So I can't comment on the direction of the series.
I grew up watching TNG, I was 6 when it started and was my first exposure to Trek. I was sad to see it end because I felt like it could have gone on longer.
Then I had DS9. I watched it simply because it was Star Trek, it was darker and definately a different show. Though I stopped watching it because it didn't hold my attention...that and constantly bad time slots so I never knew when it was on. It wasn't until the Dominion War that I began watching it again. Not just because of massive starship battles, but the way it took its characters such as Sisko from "In the Pale Moonlight".
As for Voyager, it had a couple good episodes, but it doesn't make up for the entire series.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)