Hey, watching these early DS9 episodes I've noticed that the backgrounds during the space scenes [especially in the Gamma quadrant] have colors, red and blue, in the form of gaseous clouds.
I never noticed it before, in fact I seem to remember that it was a major complaint that Trek didn't have those backgrounds... it usually comes up revolving around B5.
I'm confused.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I always thought B5 was FAR too colorful for the shear vastness of space involved.
On DS9, the Idran system (on the gamma side of the wormhole) may have some nebula remnants flowating around to give it some color, I suppose.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I always thought B5 was FAR too colorful for the shear vastness of space involved.
How does one shear a vastness? With pinking shears?
Sheer lunacy, such shearing would be!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Exactly. Now go run with shears.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Simple Deep Space Nine had beautiful effects and remarkable production values.
OMG how sad it is that there is no more of the sets like Ops, or the Promenade.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"I always thought B5 was FAR too colorful for the shear vastness of space involved."
You thought wrong, then, since many of B5's backgrounds were actual Hubble photographs.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You mean those digitally altered, color enhanced for contrast Hubble photographs.
Reeeeeal realistic.
Some of Hubble's photos go so far as to change X-Ray information into visible colors.
It's cool to look at but not really how something would appear to the naked eye.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, DUH. OF COURSE those photographs were digitally altered. They had to extend them in 3D for purposes of camera movement. And yeah, they also enhanced the colors a bit. What WERE those idiots thinking? Didn't they know that improving the contrast and visibility of a background image of deep space destroys ALL realism in a scene?
Jesus.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Yes, well, then....
Wouldn't the colors also be sheer? I mean, if you can see stars through them and all....
If the only color is on planets we live in a bland universe....
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: Yes, well, then....
Wouldn't the colors also be sheer? I mean, if you can see stars through them and all....
If the only color is on planets we live in a bland universe....
I think the only thing sheer around here is your underwear...oh, Good morning!
(This morning rush hour taunting is brought to you by me! Funding for a better tommorrow! Me! Not associated with Me! Inc. or ME Acme Heavy Industries)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: Well, DUH. OF COURSE those photographs were digitally altered. They had to extend them in 3D for purposes of camera movement. And yeah, they also enhanced the colors a bit. What WERE those idiots thinking? Didn't they know that improving the contrast and visibility of a background image of deep space destroys ALL realism in a scene?
Jesus.
You miss the point: it was speculated that those were accurate colors and DS9 was "major complaint that Trek didn't have those backgrounds".
Look at our own solar system: there's no bright shiney nebula everywhere you look. Unless all those pics from the Voyager spaceprobe are just pointed in the wrong direction. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
If you looked at those Hubble pictures under the visible spectrum, you'd normally see the stars. All the nebulaic clouds and gasses? For the most part, they're only seen in spectra of light that the human eye can't normally see. Hubble records images in those spectra and then NASA / JPL / whoever modifies them so we can see them.
You know infrared goggles? They take light in infrared waves that we can't see, and promotes their wavelengths electronically to something we can. Same thing with space telescopes and IR / NIR / UV / X spectra, among things.
That said, the B5 backgrounds were almost exclusively those pictures taken directly from the modified images you caan purchase or that have been released to the public domain, and barely altered them at all. Made the B5 universe look like the Electric Light Parade to me. Trek backgrounds, when they got around to doing them, are IMO uniformly better suited to the general colour palette of the given show.
Mark <--- masters degree in satellite imagery systems
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I always thought B5 was FAR too colorful for the shear vastness of space involved."
"You thought wrong, then, since many of B5's backgrounds were actual Hubble photographs."
The point isn't that such nebulae don't exist. The point is that you'll only run into them from time to time. Most of the time when you fly around in space, all you're going to see is black with little points of light.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Surely you're also going to see a big strip of blue stretching across the place? I''ve been really, really, really out in the countryside, and the rest of the Milky Way does show up as a great big...blue thing.
If you're in space, with no light polution, aren't you going to see the colourful stuff from extreme distances?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"The point is that you'll only run into them from time to time."
Well, they didn't show them in every episode. Most were used as backdrops for fleet battles, of which there weren't all that many.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
C'Mon. The Shadow planet had a creepy yellow one, Mimbar's backdrop was purple...every race got their own color coordinated nebula except Earth and that's only because we KNOW what our space is supposed to look like.
It's also good to know that hyperspace consists of choppy pixels from every deleted 3-D mesh ever made. Kinda a computer animation afterlife in glowy red.
Posted by Captain Mike XLVII (Member # 709) on :
i thought i saw Starscream's ghost there too
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"If you're in space, with no light polution, aren't you going to see the colourful stuff from extreme distances?"
But, most of the time, they're so far away that they're still just little colored spots mixed in among the stars. They may be easier to see, but they aren't going to fill in your whole background unless you get pretty close to one.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well at least B5 didn't reuse the Mutara Nebula ad nauseum! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
If they had the file....
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: It's also good to know that hyperspace consists of choppy pixels from every deleted 3-D mesh ever made.
Making fun of ten year old CGI done on a low budget?
Tough man.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Making fun of it for the time.
They couldve come up with something better looking for an effect that was shown almost every week....and yes, they could have on their budget.
Even years later, on Crusade, they had to keep using it because it was the standard for what hyperspace was supposed to look like.
They were locked into a bad effect.
By contrast, I dont make fun of Dr. Who's effects because they were actually innovative for their time and on their shoestring budget (except for the ski-mask Cybermen: that was just silly).
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Hmm. Hyperspace never really looked that bad to me, but horses for courses.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Irony: Didn't Crusade have a different hyperspace effect, leading to much muted gnashing of teeth at rasf.b5.moderated? It had a different jump point effect, to be sure. Maybe the new hyperspace look was introduced in Legends of the Rangers.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I have several of the Crusade episodes on tape and it's the same effect.
I skipped LOTR (bad acronym, that) after I caught the scene where the gunner is "punching and kicking" to fire the ship's weapons. It looked like a Tae-Bo commercial.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It is a bad acronym. I just had to review a game called "Lords Of The Realm" for PC Format. And it was shit. Really, really shit. Awfully, truelly, shit.
(This isn't actually relevent, but I wanted to mention that I do actually now have work. Freelance, part-time work, but still work. Woo!)
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"I just had to review a game called 'Lords Of The Realm' for PC Format."
!!
And how come you aren't on ICQ right now, anyway?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Because I only wanted to come on for 5 minutes. If I went on ICQ, I'd end up talking, and not going to bed.
Which is pretty much what has happened anyway. Damnit! Why can't I sleep at the same time as normal people.
I'm going to attempt to do so now. Night.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Nobody ICQs me ever. So count your luck, you bright shiny stars of sexmachines.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Some people are noticibly not around for ICQing, I note.
Well, often me. But at the moment, others.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I am writing in a lab without ICQ access.
BUT SIMON IS GONE TOO MUCH.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Nobody ICQs me ever."
I have just been ICQing you.
YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN A LIE, SIR.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
ICQ...
so that's still around, eh?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: ICQ...
so that's still around, eh?
Seems like it. I used it back when it was first around... '97 or '98... but I valued my privacy and didn't want everyone to know when I was on the computer... so I basically had myself 'hidden' most of the time - and the I just deleted it all together.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I had a certain number of people set to "always visible", then stayed invisible. Now I only go on when I want to talk. Or be rude to people.
I did try Trillian the other day, but it was very, very ugly. So I stopped. ICQ 2003b, on the other hand, looks nice, but it a bit big. Why can't anyone make me happy?
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Morvo wants 98b... pathetic humans, always adding frilly dodads to good programs and ruining them.
MORVO SHALL KILL YOU!
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"I did try Trillian the other day, but it was very, very ugly."
For that, you deserve to have your eyes poked out with a hot metal rod.
Also, you are a game reviewer now? Developers everywhere are crapping their pants in horror and fear as we speak.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
I ignored it the first time in some other thread, but its MorBO not MorVO.
The newsmonster in Futurama is Morbo, and "might" be a reference to the original Morvo:
quote: = Parallels to Science Fiction =
~ "This Island Earth" (movie) - Morvo is a Metaluna Mutant, a biologically produced servant/soldier to the Metalunans in the classic 1955 sci-fi feature.
Sorry... it's his angry alien ascent, comes through with a v instead of a b.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: "I did try Trillian the other day, but it was very, very ugly."
For that, you deserve to have your eyes poked out with a hot metal rod.
That's a fair point. I meant it was ugly in an "I found it akward and uncomfortable to use" sort of way, rather than just general looks. Plus, I quite like that little picture you can put up of yourself on MSM. And the fact that 2003b automatically blocks messages from obvious spammers. So there.
And what's wrong with wanting my programmes to look nice, eh? This is 2004. I want everything to be metallic looking and have rounded corners.
quote:Also, you are a game reviewer now? Developers everywhere are crapping their pants in horror and fear as we speak.
Well, freelance. And I've only done one review. And it hasn't been published yet. But...
I gave Lords Of The Realm 3 a measly 42%! They will know the power of my words!
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I ignored it the first time in some other thread, but its MorBO not MorVO.
The newsmonster in Futurama is Morbo, and "might" be a reference to the original Morvo:
quote: = Parallels to Science Fiction =
~ "This Island Earth" (movie) - Morvo is a Metaluna Mutant, a biologically produced servant/soldier to the Metalunans in the classic 1955 sci-fi feature.
Actually, Morbo looks to me like he's got elements one of the titular beings from "Invasion of the Saucer Men".
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"And what's wrong with wanting my programmes to look nice, eh? This is 2004. I want everything to be metallic looking and have rounded corners."
Well, except, Trillian is metallic-looking with rounded corners.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I had ICQ back in '96...but I lost my password to it and have long since changed emails to retreive it and, well I guess I don't care otherwise. I barely even use my AOL or MSN messengers since I left college and work 3rd shift....
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: That's a fair point. I meant it was ugly in an "I found it akward and uncomfortable to use" sort of way, rather than just general looks. Plus, I quite like that little picture you can put up of yourself on MSM. And the fact that 2003b automatically blocks messages from obvious spammers. So there.
You can put up a little picture of yourself on Trillian, and you can block spammers with equal impunity. So no.
quote:And what's wrong with wanting my programmes to look nice, eh? This is 2004. I want everything to be metallic looking and have rounded corners.
Trillian IS metallic looking and has rounded corners. And it supports transparency! So, again no.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Quiet, or I will give you a low rating.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I never understood the obsession with rounded corners. The screen is rectangular. Anything rounded is a pointless waste of space. Just like I don't understand the obsession with dark unreadable skins.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
You guys should update your backward-ass Trillian versions. It is totally square these days.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Exactly. I knew it wasn't rounded. I win.
The obsession with rounded corners is because it looks all warm and nice and lovely, whereas square corners are evil and harsh and sharp. Tim loves them, and uses the classic skin on XP. He is a freak.
iPods are dead sexy.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Wouldn't you have to review me first, dear?
And:
Note the rounded corner in the bottom left. Note how skilled I am at censoring names. Note how lengthy my contact list is. Note how much I rule.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Your ego needs to be caught and ballgagged immediately.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Note the square corners. Note how skilled I am at censoring names. Note how lengthy my contact list is. Note how much I rule.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Fear the old school:
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Okay, that version of Trillian that Chris has looks like ass. That's the newer style?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The one I downloaded looked like Cartman's.
And why are you censoring names? I'm really struggling to come up with something evil you can do with a person's instant messaging contact list.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
That's the Whistler theme for Trillian 2. I suppose I could download other skins but I just haven't bothered as I have it hidden most of the time anyways.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I have like 15 people on mine, I don't even know 40.
Who the hell doesn't want to talk to me, that stings.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Well, if you told me your real name, like you told *spit* Tim...
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
What's in the background Mucus... is that a B5 image?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Why yes, kinda. Its one of the fan-rendered images from http://www.tp2b.de/ Not the nicest site design, but some nice relaxing wallpapers.
Good eye.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, at least that gets us back on topic. Sort of.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
No.
I'm not ever on anything anymore ever.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
BIG HUG!
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
An ICQ MESSAGE would comfort him more, you know.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
But I then end up chatting and not working on the 10,000 words I have to write before Wednesday.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
10.000? What do you have to write, an encyclopedia in twelve languages?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Dissertation. I have done 2,000. I am possibly in trouble.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Dissertation. I have done 2,000. I am possibly in trouble.
You've "done" 2000!?! You're definitely in trouble. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It's not Wednesday yet.
Besides, I have now done 3,100. Plus some purdy pictures. I would have written more, but I decided to go and look for Teen Titans episode review sites instead. Because THAT'S WHAT MY STUPID BRAIN DOES.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Don't worry - on year i had 8 exams to study for... i decided to spend the study week learning html and creating a star trek website instead! LOL! SO bad of me. It's called procrastinating to the max!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
4,348. Woo! Just another 5,000-odd to write tomorrow. I forsee no sleep for me.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
If I could scour all knowledge of the Teen Titans from my brain I would be a happier person.
And speaking of reviews, where is yours, eh? EH? I grow tired of waiting!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
They have dropped more hints that the Robin in it is Dick Grayson, and not Tim Drake. I DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THAT, AND YET I DO!
My review won't be in until next issue. I forgot that they have ridiculously long lead times. Still, you can entertain yourself with that cover that shows an attractive woman licking a graphics card. As a mate said, you just know that there's some men out there wanking off to that graphics card.
5,200. I would have done more, except that I fell asleep when I got in from work (at half 10 at night), and only woke up at half 2. Stupid me. I got me some pro-plus though. And zinc, just in case.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
8,300. I think I've had too much pro-plus. I'm both exhausted and full of energy. I want to throw up.
FUN!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Who the hell is Tim Drake?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The third Robin. Dick Grayson grew up and became Nightwing (in the 80s, I think). Then there was another lad whose name I can't recall. Jason someone, possibly. He died. The current Robin (since the beginning of the 90s) is Tim Drake. He was the first one to get the redesigned costume that is now the basis for all the other Robin costumes seen in the media (ie, Robin in the Batman Animated series wore the new costume, even though it was Dick Grayson). Generally, the new costume is like the old one, but less...gay. Teen Titans (the animated show) features a Robin, but his design is slightly different from the other Robin's featured in DC Animated Universe shows, and it's a new voice actor. There has been doubt over whether it's Dick Grayson (most famous Robin), or Tim Drake (current Robin since the 90s). I think I've had too much Pro Plus. 9,000 words. That'll do. I'm off to hand it in. Buh bye.
Posted by RoboCaptainMike47 (Member # 709) on :
Tim Drake is Robin, Batman's partner.
Originally, Dick Grayson was Robin. His costume was a variation on his outfit from 'The Flying Graysons' act at the circus, that he was wearing when he watched his parents die when the ropes were sabotaged. It had bare legs and a yellow cape.
Then Dick joined the Titans, started going out with Starfire, and decided not to be Bruce's partner anymore. He changed to a blue and yellow costume and called himself Nightwing.
Another boy was taken in by Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd. He wore Dick's old Robin costume. Jason Todd was murdered by the Joker.
The third Robin was Tim Drake. Questioning the wisdom of wearing a bright yellow cape and having so much exposed skin as a crimefighter, Tim opted for a sleeker costume.
This costume is worn by the Robin in Teen Titans, however, all logic points away from it being Tim Drake in the Tim Drake costume, since Tim is probably five to ten years younger than Dick Grayson and the rest of the team depicted there.
Dick Grayson is the only Robin who was part of the Titans team alongside Starfire, Cyborg, Raven and Beast Boy, even though he never wore the modern costume in any other incarnation
[edit: beaten to this explanation on last page, oh well..]
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Dick Grayson also grew a mullet at one point. I think that the little elf slippers and yellow cape destroyed any sense of fashion that the boy used to have.
Thank god he got that (accidently) cut off. And changed Nightwing's costume so that it actually looked, y'know, cool.
The fact that we've seen into the future in Teen Titans (animated), and it shows that Robin becomes Nightwing, indicates that it probably is Dick, and not Tim. Likewise, in a new episode we meet Robin's clone brother from a parallel dimension, who has a very silly name that's something like Nosyarg KciD. I think. I wasn't looking at the screen at that point, but I think the name flies around the screen and is reversed briefly behind him. Not that it matters, since they decide that it's a silly name and call him Larry.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Shouldn't you been writing?
On second thought, why aren't you writing 10.000 words on the Teen Titans?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Because they don't do a course in that. And I'm not overly familiar with it. I picked up the comic and was scared by how weird everyone looked. Starfire has big boobies! And look's like the person they get when they can't afford to hire Pheonix.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I am not a happy person now.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Why not?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Three full-length posts on the TT in the same thread in less than a day is more than I can stand.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That's just because you think that Beast Boy is a cutie.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Do the other Titan's know who Robin is?
I never heard of Jason Todd, although that's probably because I only watched the animated series and never had the cash to follow the comics.
I have to admit, Nightwing is much cooler than Batman.
Anything else interesting I should know?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I DO NOT ENJOY BOTH GENDERS!! Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: I DO NOT ENJOY BOTH GENDERS!!
"The words 'recreation' and 'enjoy' have no meaning to my programming." ILIA PROBE, ST:TMP
...putting this topic back into Star Trek (at least a little bit!)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Tim Drake was introduced in the final season of the batman Animated Series (when the animation get soooo much better and the stories got soooo much darker).
In the animated series, Dick does become Nightwing and Tim gets the cool new Robin costume and the extending metal staff.
In the comics, Jason Todd is a street kid that tries to steal the Batmobile. Bruce takes him in, makes him the second Robin. Jason is reckless, takes on the Joker and is brutally killed. A year later finds Batman becoming increasingly violent and Bruce being Batman 100% of the time. Tim Drake (in Jr. High) does some detective work and figures out that Dick Grayson is Nightwing. Doesnt take too much thinking to put the rest together. Tim just shows up in the Batcave, starts saving Bruce's ass from time to time and becomes the New Robin by saving him from The Scarecrow. Tim gets sent off abroad for a year to be trained (by the world's top killer, it turns out) and is the more of Batman's partner than sidekick. Tim keeps Bruce from going too far. In the comics, Tim (Robin)is 16-17 years old: a in high school.
Read Jim Lee's run of Batman (called "Hush") for some great storytelling with both Robin and Batman playing head games with Catwoman.
Somehow they forgot about Tim with Teen Titans. Ug.
On the good side, Paul Dini is making a new -more adult oriented?- Batman Animated series starting with his first mission as Batman: Bruce is thinner than we're used to seeing Batman (but still bigger than Nightwing ever gets) and a bit lower tech (black leather utility belt with pouches). Looks cool from the teaser pics I've seen.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Three Robins? Why couldn't they get their own names/costumes?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Comic continuity is black magic. Only more difficult.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
To make sense of, yeah.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Dont make me start a thread on the timeline of Jean Grey/Phionex.
My ears bleed from the very thought.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Those ain't the only body parts that are gonna bleed if you do that.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: In the animated series, Dick does become Nightwing and Tim gets the cool new Robin costume and the extending metal staff.
Actually, Dick's costume in the Animated Series was much closer to the revised comic design that Cartoon-Tim's. Dick's matched the colour scheme of the new design, whereas Tim's went away from it (with the black sleeves, and so forth). Robin's costume in Teen Titans is closer to the revised comic design (and the animated Dick's design).
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Three Robins? Why couldn't they get their own names/costumes?
It's part of Batman's quirky character. Although the man has basically abandoned any attempts at a normal life in order to make sure that what happened to him doesn't happen to anyone else, there's also a recurring idea of him creating a "new" family, to replace the one he lost. That's why he keeps getting these kids to be his sidekicks, despite all the "I work alone" protestations.
So, when the first Robin (Dick Grayson) became sick of being Batman's sidekick and left to become his own hero (Nightwing), a void was created. One which Batman filled by getting a new Robin (Jason Todd) to replace the old. His reason for wearing the old costume, I'm not sure about, but it could have been respect, or just some sort of idea at continuity (ie, Batman's partner was always called Robin) Todd was a bit kerazy and on the edge though. And he died. Batman started to go insane with guilt. He got all dark. So...along comes Robin #3...
Tim is the most balanced of the three. Dick had Bruce's obsessive edge, but can also be laid back and have fun with it. Tim is like that, but even more so. He is rational about everything, and acknowledges that "he probably won't be doing this forever". Whereas if Bruce died, there's a fair chance that Dick would take over the mantle of Batman (and, indeed, has before).
I'm not sure whether Tim demanded that the costume be modified. Good thing he did though, since it actually made the rather silly original costume look half-way decent.
I never read Teen Titans, but the animated series reminds me a lot of Young Justice. Even the portrayal of Robin in it reminds me a fair bit of Tim's Robin from that series (although Tim was always a bit more "dark n moody" in Young Justice than he was in his own comic).
Tim is also only 5' 1" tall. He is a tiny man.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Looking at it, Robin really did have the worst "iconic" superhero costume of all time. Look at it: And you can't even blame it on "they designed it way back in the 40s, since it was still in use right up until the end of the 80s. Dick was in his twenties when he wore it! He had no shame.
So, when Tim took over, it was replaced with this: Much nicer, eh? He's finally covered up his legs (although this image is missing the split toe boots, which shows the slightly Asian influence this costume has). Also, making the cape's outside black actually makes it look better. Black and yellow: good. Yellow only: Bad.
And don't think that Dick never had costume problems when he became Nightwing. Look at this. Seriously, look. I suppose you can't expect them to be incredible martial artists with uncanny detective powers, AND also have good costume design skills. Worse yet, he eventually grew a mullet. An honest to god mullet.
Thankfully, along came the 90s, and the "make everything black" phase. So we get the rather better looking: And that concludes the story. Hopefully, we have all learnt that hanging around with a man who dresses like a bat will fuck up your own sense of fashion. Mark my words. Tim may be fastidious about his hair gel now, but give it a few years and he'll have added a suit jacket to his costume. With rolled up sleaves.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, the only thing really wrong with that Nightwing costume is the ginormous '70s collar. Lose that (including the exposed chest), and it wouldn't be so bad.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
There is a middle Nightwing costume where the bodysuit is blue and a yellow band is where the blue is on the new one. Also, it is not all shaped all spikey, also, it was in use during Knightfall, also, comic books are like, for the nerds.
TERRIBLES!! Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I seriously doubt that after having left Bruce over their personality clashes Dick would have become Batman when Bruce retired.
Looking at Batman Beyond, it's my understanding that Dick was killed somehow, but even still. Had he lived, he probably would have [at most] incorporated the technology of the new Batman suit into his Nightwing persona. Dick seemed to be barely willing to rejoin Bruce and co. [at the time Batgirl and Tim] in the animated series.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I believe Liam said that Tim would take over the Batman mantle.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Nightwing is still alive in Batman: Beyond, I think. At the very least, he's mentioned as being alive in the "Return of the Joker" movie.
And no, I said that Tim would never take over the Batman mantle. He acknowledges that he "won't be doing this sort of thing forever". Whereas Dick has largely made up with Bruce. Although he has largely stepped out of Bruce's shadow and become his own man (in the comics, at least. I don't think that Nightwing has a huge amount of real-world penetration), I can still see him becoming Batman at a future point. Especially if Bruce died.
I forgot the Nightfall costume. It wasn't bad. I just like the blue shoulder strips on the current one. Especially how they carry on down to the gloves. True, it's the typical "BLACK IS COOL!" thing, but the blue makes it interesting. And the double stick weapons are quite cool.
Thank god I've done that dissertation.
Posted by RoboCaptainMike47 (Member # 709) on :
The current black-with-blue-mantle design was used when nightwing appeared in Teen Titans too... and in "Batman and Robin" , the Robin costume was a red-and-black variant of it, so the Nightwing retroactively influenced a Robin getup, in a way
BTW, in the Kingdom Come future scenario (which is pretty accurate to where many of the series evolve towards).. the fortyish Dick Grayson wouldnt take on the mantle of Batman either, he stopped being Nightwing, though.. after Tim bought the farm and the Robin name was open again, he snatched it back up and became and older, seasoned crimefighter Robin.. he had a yellow chest insignia, a stylized bird head rather than the 'R', black cape & leggings, a black cowl that covered his head and face (like Batman's) and a red chestpiece
much more respectable than the fortyish Dick Grayson that was Robin in the pre-Crisis Earth-2 stories, he had a costume that was a streamlined version of the original (without the belt and stuff).. Seeing a fortyish guy in that much red yellow and puke green must do numbers on alternate Earth villians.
in other alt futures, there was Carrie Kelly, the cute girl Robin from Frank Miller's Dark Knight.. the original costume is much more suited for a girl, she added cyberpunk goggles and looked cool as i recall
oh, and in the Kingdom Come future, Nightwing and Starfire's daughter is named Nightstar i believe. heh.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Uh oh! Tim's tenure as Robin is over soon! (For however long it is until he is reinstated in comicbookcontinuitypreservationfortheheartstrengthofthefatsoponytailed) and a girl is about to take over.
I hear tell on the websites. So they say.
The newest Robin comic has his dad come in and discover what he's been up to, aside from the precocious masturbation, and threaten Bruce Wayne with a handgun loaded with handgun bullets.
Posted by MirrorCaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
HANDGUN BULLETSNO!!1! ! Posted by MirrorCaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Ass-facedly Double posted by MirrorCaptainMike: QUOTEREPLY!!1! !
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Out of all superheroes, my hairstyle is more like Tim Drake's than any other. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
More like THE RAWHID KID (Courtesy of Marvel), I would say!
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I forgot an E!
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
So if I understand this correctly, from the animated series:
Dick Grayson's parents are killed, and Bruce takes him in. DG finds out about Batman and becomes Robin soon after. DG is unable or unwilling to work under Batman's command, and Bruce isn't the partner type. So, after Batgirl joined [which I never quiet understood how that happened], DG left for parts unknown, leaving the Robin suit behind. He went to another town and became Nightwing, honing his skills and making a name for himself. Meanwhile, back in Gotham Batman and Batgirl are doing well. They run into Tim Drake, who also finds out about Batsy and becomes Robin 2 [or 3 depending on your storyline, but Jason Todd was never in the animated series]. About this time, DG returns to take Batgirl back with him... she refuses, he sticks around long enough to get a clue. Nightwing leaves and goes off to become his own hero elsewhere. Meanwhile, Joker kidnaps Drake and tortures him. At this point Batman is involved in the death of the Joker and both Batgirl and Robin hang up their suits--- Batman on the other hand grows dark and apathetic. Eventually, as time goes on, Batman has retired due to age. This is the point where Terry McGenius comes onto the scene as the new Bat.
However, through Batman Beyond it seems to me that Dick is dead. 1) Bruce has Dick's clothes, 2) Barbara makes no mention of Nightwing's whereabouts when the situations concerning Terry would make that necessary 3) He never visits 4) During the "Return of the Joker" Terry doesn't go to visit Dick but he does go to see both Barbara and Tim. --- Maybe it's another dirty little secret like Joker's death?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's hinted in Batman Beyond that Bruce and Barbara had an intimate relationship at some point. That's probably why Dick never returned.
Bruce might've warned off Terry (about visiting Dick Grayson).
Bruce having the Nightwing costume means nothing: he has Batgirl's and Barbara is still alive.
If only they'd make a really faithful Batman Beyond live-action movie instead of the silly thing in development (with Frank Miller's "bat-tankmobile, no less!).
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Some people here know far too much about cartoon comic character costume continuity for my liking.
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
Is that any better or worse than knowing about the continuity in a fictional series?
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I'm not talking just about Nightwing's old custom [which I like almost as much as the Beyond uniform for Batman--- as a hero's custom], during one of the early episodes Terry puts on a sports coat that has the initials DG and he asks "Who is DG?" and doesn't get an answer until Barbara tells him about Dick Grayson and he puts it together.
Whether or not Dick knew about the relationship, Barbara spurned him soon after he returned as Nightwing. It was clear their relationship would go nowhere... Dick doesn't seemed to be the kind of guy that fools around, I doubt he'd prolong a dead relationship.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I should point out that animated Tim is completely different from comic Tim. The animated version has a gangster dad who is killed, and is about 12. Comic Tim actually has a normal family (or had, I'm not sure anymore), is about 16-17, and is generally very down to earth.
As for Nightwing, there's a line in the BB: Return of the Joker movie, where Barbara says to Tim:
"You should look up Nightwing at some point. Does he have some stories to tell..."
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I don't believe that was the actual line. I believe the line was Barbara telling Terry to look into Nightwing's background and adventures, not to actually find him.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I dunno. Here is the actual dialogue:
quote:Terry: Were all of you that bitter when you left?
Barbara: Comes with the territory, McGuiness. Look up Nightwing some day, has he got stories.
That sounds more like she's telling Terry to look up a living Nightwing than a dead one.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Whoa nelly this thread is scramble nerd city.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Putting in a reference to a semi-obscure Japanese OVA doesn't somehow reverse the nerdity status of this thread or you.
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Trek backgrounds, when they got around to doing them, are IMO uniformly better suited to the general colour palette of the given show.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
