I hated Voyager with a Passion. From day one the writing staff had no idea how to build or construct characters, Tuvok is the most cardboard uninteresting character ever to walk the hallowed corridors of Trek, Thott Gor had more development than him! When Harry was infected by species 8472 and a tear trickled down his face the same way as it trickled down Picards face in Best of Both Worlds, how patronising, I wanted Kim to die anyway, horribly. Chakote' had a tattoo, Torres was angry a lot, the Doctor was a hologram who wanted to be human and sang instead of recited poetry like Data did. Ho Hum. Every Alien race they encountered were ridiculous, the Ocampa (whose population halve every generation as they only give birth once!) The Kazon were 'bad' the dream species sleapt a lot, big wow! What a wondrous place this Delta Quadrent is! The only (and I mean only!) good episode was 'Equinox' and that was because the crew of that ship actually had some characterisation to them. Here was a missed opportunity, Voyager should have faced more trials like the Equinox, with Janeway forced to chose between her beliefs and her stomach! When Tuvok melded with Suder he should have retained his anger management problems, bursting into worf-style action like the incredible hulk whenever his shipmates where threatened. Only Paris, Janeway, a developed Chakotay and Doctor would have survived if I had my way, none of the writing staff would!
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Um...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Great idea!!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sooo...you're six years old?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You know, I don't think we've ever really considered some of the things Voyager did wrong before.
Just so noone can say nobody plays nicely: Tuvok, like most of the characetsr started out with promise. His choice in Prime Factors showed some tension and uncertainty on his part regarding logic and loyalty.
Chakotay's (or Chakote') spiritual side could have been done well, but wasn't really.
Voyager's first too seasons did some interesting things, with the on-going storylines regarding Seska and the traitor on board, some of the recurring little people, etc. But yes, on the whole they ruined alot of opportunities with Equinox being among the best episodes.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I really never cared for Equinox too much. The aliens were a bit contrived and even when it first aired, I knew the story should have had major ongoing reprecussions but that it would never be mentioned again.
The first officer of the Equinox was laughably two-dimensional: he just needed a waxed mustache to twirl. None of those characters acted anything like starfleet officers- you'd thin at least someone on board could have retained an ounce of integrity.
For the record, I think Tuvok was the one thing Voyager got consistantly right. Tim Russ' portrayal of a Vulcan was the best since Nimoy wrote the book on how they should act.
Anyone that thinks Voyager would have been better with some "worf-style action like the incredible hulk whenever his shipmates where threatened" must seriously be disapointed with the majority of Trek.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
Woah there! Don't get me wrong i didn't mean I wanted to see Tuvoc become some knife throwing psycho, was just trying to illustrate how the writers passed up on opportunities to add extra angles to their characters. If you read any books on how to write or attend any classes, they always make mentuon of a Character Arc, they start somewhere, something happens to them, they change as a result of it happening, look how much Picard changed, or Bashir (O'brien used to hate him) Was Harry a different character when we left him to when we met him? Was Tuvoc? Was Neelix? Spock had real depth, so did savic and valeris, even Tauric in Lower decks did, the way he kept second guessing Laforge etc, Tuvoc was just an effigy of what a Vulcan was supposed to be, Schwarzeneger would have been proud
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Voyager's first too seasons did some interesting things, with the on-going storylines regarding Seska and the traitor on board, some of the recurring little people, etc. But yes, on the whole they ruined alot of opportunities with Equinox being among the best episodes.
Thrawn's wierd little rant aside, I don't believe Voyager "killed" Star Trek. Or killed anything, for that matter. The concept as envisioned showed a lot of promise (as would the concept of Enterprise, but that's another story). As Aban stated above, they could have had the potential to tell basically any kind of story they wanted to, because they were in a whole new region of space where the Federation's laws did not apply. The whole spiritual aspect of Chakotay was also a new, fresh idea instead of relying on the old technobabble to explain everything away. I liked all the characters as well, with the exception of Neelix, who was quite annoying. I really believed that we were going to get away from the "Starfleet crew" of TNG and focus more on how these people must sacrifice and work together to survive this new and unknown place.
For the first two seasons, all of the above seemed to be the case. Then, the writers & creators who envisioned the original premise left. And along came people like Brannon Braga. And the show instantly became TNG all over again, only with the addition of a large breasted chick in a catsuit.
But even with this, I don't believe that it killed Star Trek. The show had more viewership than Enterprise ever had. I believe that if Voyager had gone on for two more seasons before ending, it probably still would have gotten higher ratings than ENT did.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
Obviously Dukhat likes Voyager and slams his ham to Jerry Ryans catsuits, and I respect that, we all need an outlet when we spend every hour god sends in a comic shop. Voyager's premise was the same as TOS, strange new workds etc, but had no real direction, no decent aliens, two semi-decent main characters. It recieved high raitings because hard core fans will take anything as long as its Trek, and therein lies the problem, as long as people like you defend shite television, Paramount will continue to churn it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
And as long as people continue posting topics that have been rehashed over and over just to get pissy with everyone, veteran Flarites will continue to be the same, lovable, Newbie-haters that the net has come to know and love. Did you actually read what he wrote? He wasn't endorsing the idea of 7's breastitude in any way.
And...ok... it's Jeri, Tuvok, and Saavik.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
Spelling mistakes sadly occur when you boss is looking over your shoulder, notice you've got plenty of time on your hands. Why comment at all if you've been over it with the old school loads of times? Or am i gatecrashing on your turf? IS this 'your special place' As far as getting pissy is concerned i've noticed a few of your in crowd tend to fly off on one and take the mick when they don't even know their facts, the outer rim thing for instance, first I was wrong, now Star Trek writers are wrong and your the one who knows the score? Thought that comic store owner from the Simpsons was just a cartoon...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
When people actually try to discuss the topic you post and all you do is come back with masturbation insults... oh nevermind...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Thread summary: "Voyager" was poorly written. Grand Admiral Thrawn is a troll who can't spell. And then it got locked.