.... so does this mean he's learning to be more human, or mereley getting sloppy when it comes to learning his lines...?
when they're all in the cave, he tells the kid: 'go! IT'S safer there!'
well, well.....
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, considering that he said "I'm" in an episode where his inability to use contractions was a major plot point...
(To put it another way, this is nothing new.)
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
In "Encounter at Farpoint" he made the remark, "At least we're acquainted with the judge."
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Prediction: after one year of no new Star Trek every thread on Flare will look like this.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Oh my god... are we going end up nitpicking Troi's fashion each season then?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I always thought those red bead things in her hair in the pilot looked like bugs.....
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I always DID love the season three lilac jumpsuit-cum-skirt ensemble. No really.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Didn't Data also say "Fuck'n"? Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Data used contractions quite a bit, especially before "Datalore". Maybe it's a function of getting his emotion chip working, then mysteriously not using it.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Not that it made any sense anyway. Why on earth couldn't he use contractions?
IF speech = "* could not *" THEN replace with "couldn't"
Obviously I can't program to save my life, but you get the idea. T'was silly.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah. He also could've gotten around it by simply making an "nnnt" sound after saying "could". "I'm not using a contraction," says Data to his programming. "I'm just stringing sounds together." Which is all speech is anyway. And even Speak and Spells can string sounds together.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye data has several faux pas moments with contaractions and decided to eliminate them from his programing...along with slang, which seems to have been abolished prior to TNG.
Mabye he made a vow to his ailing pal Geordi: "I will not use a single contraction untill you get laid." Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I think he didn't use contractions as another way to not make him too human for the residents of his original colony/home... Omicron Theta?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That was the implication. Lore said Soong had to make Data "less perfect" to satisfy the inhabitant's whining. The lack of emotions and nerd-speak seemed to be some of the ways that Soong tried to satisfy that. The problem is, The writers (or the directors) evidently didn't know about that until the episode was written.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Silly writers.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So Soong deliberatly but in some sort of mental programming block to prevent Data from using contractions? I never thought of that.
But then, considering Data made Lal, and she had no problems using contractions, you wonder why he couldn't have slightly altered his own programming.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Because Soong put a block to it?
Certainly these "forced inhumanity subroutines" had to be something more complex than single lines of code in the linguistics or body movement databases. They'd have to actively damp Data's efforts to learn and evolve. At times, Data might gain the upper hand, but then the programming would force him to regress again...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Data did progress over time though, even before he got the emotion chip (although most of it was in the first couple of seasons). I wonder if he was actively trying to use contractions all that time, and those instances where he did were when he managed to successfully beat (or at least trick) his programming?
quote:Lore said Soong had to make Data "less perfect" to satisfy the inhabitant's whining.
I'd take anything Lore said with a pinch of salt though. IIRC, Lore was implying that Data was physically less perfect. This was countered by Soong saying that they were virtually identical, apart from "a bit of programming." Which would tie into Lore's point, thinking about it, but in a different way.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, I don't necessarily believe Lore, but Soong seemed to confirm the basics of what Lore was saying, albeit with an approach that would make Data feel better about himself.
He told Data, "The last thing you should think of yourself as is 'less perfect'." I always took that to mean, "Yes, what Lore's saying is true, but he's being a brat and you shouldn't think of it in that way."
The part Lore left out, though, is the fact that the colonists weren't so much jealous as the were terrified that Lore might do something like, oh, say... contact a giant space organism to wipe them all out, what with him being evil and all.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
i still want to know how the giant snowflake "rewarded" Lore for what he had done. Gave him free crushed ice the next time he had a party?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah, that's always bugged me as well: if it was shown to be more intelligent, I'd think it might have altered/evolved Lore emotionally and Lore wanted more "treatments".
As to Data, It's possible that each time Data was seriously damaged or had to be "re-booted", all his emotional growth was lost. Data was forcibly deactivated several times: mabye the core programming re-asserts itself each time (with his "growth" being effectivly de-fragged in the process).
It's also possible that Lore somehow fucked with Data's programming (when Lore replaced him in Datalore) to limit the potential threat he posed.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Data's, uh, mother, does confirm that Data occasionally freaked everybody out, at least.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
With his detachable penis.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Someone looked down to find it floating in their drink one too many times. . .
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
I didn't realise it was detahable. Perhaps that's why Yar looked so keen...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I've always wondered about that little hologram of her that he had, if he turned it upside down and shook it, did her clothes disappear?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Of course, people in the 24th century are freaked out by anything from loud music to the color of Liam's hair, so whatever other "activities" Data liked to indulge himself in, they can hardly have been more shocking than those innocent sunday morning cyber-flashes.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Before his modesty subroutine was added, Data walked around in the buff. Fatjo's speculation about Data's lack of modesty in "The Most Toys" was apparently incorrect.
From a production standpoint, does anyone know where they got the footage of Yar for the holographic doohickey Data had of her? I think it showed up in "The Measure of a Man" and "The Most Toys". Was it something they grabbed from existing footage, or did Crosby actually stand for it? I'm kind of guessing it was from the hologram during her funeral, but she seemed to just stand there and shift her weight for a little while without talking. I also seem to remember the hologram being seen froma number of angles.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's from Yar's holographic will/goodbye message.
It being in the stok footage shots in the (awful) Measure of a Man was just assinine.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
In that episode, the (possesed) Data is gived a goofy psyche-test on computer wherein dozens of images flash in rapid seuence and a computer monitors your mental reactions (how in fuck this test-made for organics) applies to an android like data is beyond me).
All of the flashed images are stock footage from earler episodes, including (somehow) one of Yar's holographic funeral message (as though someone thought it's be funny to have that in the test).
So...that's it....unless your "?" was regarding how such a crappy episode was ever made in the first place, in which case, I concur wholeheartedly with "?".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm having trouble decoding your complaint.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Simply that A) said epsode sucked B) said stock footage sucked and C)...er....the episode sucked! SUCKED I SAY!
Fucking "Shades of Grey" was more watchable.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
I found the most obvious contraction flub was the one Data yelled. In "We'll Always Have Paris", when the three Datas are trying to figure out which of them is from the correct time continuum, the one in the middle shouts out, "It's me!"
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I always thought it was the one I mentioned earlier, from "Datalore". They spend all that time explaining how Data can't use contractions. Then, at the end of the episode, Data says "I'm fine!" I still think the crew should have yelled "Oh no, we spaced the wrong one!" and beamed Data off the ship.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
a) When was Data possessed in "Measure of a Man"? b) Thinking "Measure of a Man" is worse than "Shades of Grey" is the most wrongthink thing ever since Andrew's compaints about Yoda in Attack of the Clones.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think he means "The Schizoid Man" where Dr. Graves went all Agent Smith on Data. That's the one where Data got the psych test. we also met the lovely Dr. Selar.
The holographic footage I was talking about though was actually from "Measure of a Man" when they take out the little holo-cube thingy during the trial. It wasn't on a viewscreen.
Come on Jason, get your decade-old tv series episodes straight! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Yes Jason. You shit.
(Actually, I also wonder where they got it from. Looped footage from "Skin of Evil" or custom shot stuff. Although in "The Most Toys" when we see it from behind, I bet it was a stand-in.)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I was *sure* we saw it from behind at one point... Yah, I can't imagine Crosby came back to stand in a uniform for an hour looking hologramy.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
We see it from behind, but we never have the camera pan around it. At least, as far as I can recall.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Of course not. Camera pans cost money. This was the "Shades of Grey' season, remember. Another reason why I doubt Crosby was brought in for custom footage.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I thought that Shades of Grey existed out of a writing deficit, and not a money deficit.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Yes, but being the first season, you want to keep a bit of money behind in case the whole thing flops, (or to make the second season better)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Or you spend lots of money on your season finale so that people will be more inclined to watch again next season. And I'll admit I'm not an expert on TV budgeting, and I know that shows will often have a cheap episode to allow them to spend more on another, more expensive one, but I can't see that applying across different seasons.
Also, it was the second season, not the first. Mr Wrong.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't know what it was due to, but it had the benefit of sucking on both visual and story grounds.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
I'll second that!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Yet the ENT finale still manages to suck by comparison...
*cocks eyebrow*
...fascinating.
-MMoM Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Or for a Firefly twist, "Does that seem right to you?"
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)