The ship shown in extreme detail at the end of Generations has never been discussed.It was called the Farragut and it was shown as a non-connie.
From the angle it was filmed,from it looked,totally magnificent and is I believe,the ship that should have been,used in,Voyager instead of that turdish looking intrepid class which,had,no screen presence,at all and looked generic and run of the mill.
The non-handsome looking Voyager ship I believe was a,contributing factor,in the lower ratings as I believe the ship is the star of the show and beauty shots of the ship can,generate a sense of wonder and awe,if done properly,with the,correct music,allowing a lasting impression.
The USS Farragut is the,best ship.I wonder if it possible to replace all,USS Voyager ship appeareances by this instead by using some kind of automated program.I hear they are remastering TOS.By remastering Voyager they could edit in new footage,of this ship instead and it,could find a new audience and fanbase and make,money for Parmount too.
Discuss if this ship should have been used and also write how you loved it from the angle shown and what impressed you about it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
By "non-connie",I assume,you,mean a Nebula, Class, and I'm quite sure,the,ship has been discussed, before.
Considering,the Nebula,Class started out,as, a kitbash of the Galaxy, no,I,don't think it ever had a prayer of being used in a series. Considering Voyager was supposed to be a brand new ship kind of precludes the use of a ship class that's older than the star of TNG. And the idea of remastering Voyager to swap the hero ship out is not that plausable.
I will agree that the ending shot in Generations was gorgeous and that the Farragut looked great.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
The Farragut? It's a Nebula class. A contemporary of the Galaxy class, Cheyenne class, New Orleans class family. Ships like it have been shown throught TNG and DS9, as a "ship of the week". WHat do you mean by a "non-connie"? That it was not of the Constitution class? There are a lot of ships that are not constitution class, and the Connies would have been out of service for a while by the time of Generations. They have been remastering TOS for a while now. And, to remaster remaster Voyager with a different ship would screw with Trek Canon and the show itself completely. Voyager is an Intrepid class ship, and the look of Voyager is what an Intrepid looks like. Would you please explain what you mean a bit more, I don't think I understand what you really mean.
I missed out on the first row. Now a second one has come my way....
[ March 24, 2008, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Sean ]
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Aban, you, ass, you should, n't do that.
Sean is correct, 'Twas a hopeful ship though.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
... i thought he left over that tripe BS about STVI...
anyway, to humor you E, The Nebula is too huge to be the hero ship of Voyager. *pulls info from his ass* 750 peps crew according to DITL... *pulls more info out of his ass* Intepid's crew around 140...
Now think about this: 750 peps vs 141... and how many marqui were coopt'ed? 50~60? *does math out of his ass* 141/2= 70 & 1/2 torso + 60 marqui = 130 mixed coopt'ed folk... (assuming they burried the torso guy. 'course if it was ass down then they could cap the end and have a portable fun toy of TV alien necrophiliacs...)
that's the Voyager crew for the series (and you get to see the ones who actually got paid during the run)
NOOOOOOOW how about this: *does more ass-tastic math out of his ass* 750/2 = 375 (sorry, no ass hat for you) + 60 marqui equals... yep you guessed it, a whole shit load more peps you'd never see cause that's a whole lot more peps to pay to get on the air, you see. plus it be alot more boring because the ship being a nebula would either end up stuck on a planet due to rating or resource management or they would have pulled a equinox themselves since it's clearly evident the bun would NEVA get command of a BIG-ASS SotL like a nebula class
wow, a flame, a slap at Voyager AND coining a new term for myself: Ass-tastic. think i'll call the woman and gloat... Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Is it time to change your status to "Ass-Tastic Rabid Member"? *Looks for Fabrux*
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
i actually like 'Active with his Member' myself... Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Arent 80% of the members of this board?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I liked the way Voyager looked. Plus there are many more substantial reasons why Voyager failed to live up to its potential, which I hope we don't bring up in yet another thread. Also, Torso? I haven't seen the 1st episode of Voyager in a long time. Am I missing something?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Dude's high. Ignore most of what he says
I hate to be the bursting of the bubble..but I've heard ass-tastic somewhere already.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Replacing Voyager with a Nebula class ship, or any older ship would be pretty dumb. Voyager was supposed to be top of the line, with advanced technology that other ships lacked. Any way, the Intrepid Class flowed with the evolving design scheme of Fed. ships. They started moving away from tall, wide ships to ships that were longer and thinner.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
I dont know why the Intrepid-class was designated as a cruiser/light-cruiser though. That damn ship always got owned by the new alien ship of the week. Its more of a destroyer or a frigate if anything else.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Maybe they thought that the technology that she carried matched the cruiser definition more than the frigate or destroyer catagory.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: i actually like 'Active with his Member' myself...
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
*Snickers*
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
It was you! iwth the pipe in the libraby, when you sucked off the waitress!
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Meheheh. Be thou careful for what thou wishest.
Isn't "cruiser" kind of a vague superclass anyway? Or is that 'battlecruiser'...
I don't like the Fed's evolution towards long and thin. I preferred tall and wide - the Galaxy's still my favorite design, although the Sovereign comes damn close.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: ... i thought he left over that tripe BS about STVI...
Thank you, sir, for directing me to this user's previoius posts. I needed the laugh, and somehow I'd missed the thread when it was open.
That boy didn't leave. He flounced.
I'd have liked the Voyager more if it didn't look as if it had been built using a plastic spoon as its base.
(Also, it's "maquis.")
(Also also, the Nebula class had better have been "hopeful," as Ritten points out.) (get it?)
(shutting up now.)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Have we got a list of what objects Voyager has been likened to over the years!?!
Plastic Spoon (above) I also remember:
Toilet seat Frog
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, I always thought it looked like a frog. But I still liked the design.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Huh. I'd never drew the frog comparison before...
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Voyager reminds me of a special knife that was used during family birthday parties to cut cake.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
When viewed from back to front, an overweight hammerhead shark.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
It looks alright looking down on the dorsal side, but the side view is just a pudgy, ugly little thing.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Kinda like your mom.
Posted by esecallum (Member # 2074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness:
NOOOOOOOW how about this: *does more ass-tastic math out of his ass* 750/2 = 375 (sorry, no ass hat for you) + 60 marqui equals... yep you guessed it, a whole shit load more peps you'd never see cause that's a whole lot more peps to pay to get on the air, you see. plus it be alot more boring because the ship being a nebula would either end up stuck on a planet due to rating or resource management or they would have pulled a equinox themselves since it's clearly evident the bun would NEVA get command of a BIG-ASS SotL like a nebula class
[/QB]
I was trying to make sense of your rambling,somewhat incoherant post and as I far as I can make out what you are saying is that producers could not afford to show the larger crew.
But the Enterprise-D which was even larger HAD A THOUSAND CREW AND WE DID NOT SEE THEM EITHER.
WE DON'T NEED TO SEE THEM EITHER.
The argument makes no sense.
You are forgetting the aesthetics involved totally,namely a splayed turkey compared to an object of beauty.The ship was going away from the planet and it was not a E-D saucer which was a hideous blueish color.This looked more appealing and,I thought I wanted you,to appreciate it as a better vessal then the Voyager class which was generic looking but your arguments relate to showing the crew which makes no sense as we never saw all the crew in TNG which had a larger crew on a larger ship.
we also did not see all the crew of the Loveboat either.
If you cannot muster a cogent argument then it is best to accept what is stated.
I think you need to a picture on your desktop for it to grow on you.
It was highly compact,and gave a holding to my chest appearance,as it clutched the engines,and secondary hull to it's belly.
You could paste a picture of it from the end of Generations.
It had a very distinct appearance that is why I am in love with it.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Still on meth then, are we?
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
"But the Enterprise-D which was even larger HAD A THOUSAND CREW AND WE DID NOT SEE THEM EITHER."
What P.W. is trying to say, (i think) is that the whole maquis integration thing wouldn't have played much of a role on a ship as big as the E-D. 60 people have very little impact on the crew make up of a ship with 1000 people on it. As for voyager, it has a crew compliment of 141, so if about 60 died, it would have a big impact on the state of the crew. Likewise, to try to integrate 60 people with a hatred of starfleet into the crew also has more of an impact on the ship. It was one of the early conflicts that Voyager expirenced.
"...to appreciate it as a better vessal then the Voyager class..."
Voyager class? do you watch Star Trek for anything other than the explosions and Seven of Nine's breasts?
"It was highly compact,and gave a holding to my chest appearance,as it clutched the engines,and secondary hull to it's belly."
You should write poetry. I'm pretty sure we all have a grasp of what the Nebula class looks like, seeing as there are at least four threads in this forum's database relating to the specs, design, and even the minute differences between the filming models of the ship.
"If you cannot muster a cogent argument then it is best to accept what is stated."
Because, of course, you are the obviously the expert on this whole subject.
Please, spend five minutes to do a search of this forum's database and read some of the conversations about this design.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Oh SNAP! Smackdown by the n��b...cherry BROKEN!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by esecallum: It was highly compact,and gave a holding to my chest appearance,as it clutched the engines,and secondary hull to it's belly.
He big in nothing, important in good elephant.
Seriously, your love for the Nebula is clouding your mental facilities. Also what's your beef with the Enterprise-D Saucer? Now I understand what you are saying, but the The Powers That Be decided to go with a new design. Deal with it. The show has been over for how many years now?
In any case, I like my wallpaper.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Hey, Gta... good game. Why does the Ent-A have phaser arrays?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
TOO BLOW YOUR MIND!!!
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Major Lulz, report to Sean's post.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Who is Major Lulz? I searched Google, Wikipedia, and the forum database, and still cant find an answer. And sir, I am manning my station adiquately. I see no reason to be relieved of duty. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I was trying to make sense of [Pensive's Wetness'...] post..."
Reading that sentence is a bit like hearing someone say, "So, I was sitting there, poking myself in the eyes with rusty thumbtacks..."
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Lulz is another word for lolz which is another word for lol. Major is an adjective but in this case I made a joke treating it like a military rank. What I was saying, my friend, is that I found your post very funny. Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
I kinda liked the Intrepid Class design. Then again I love the Prometheus Class so what do I know?
Having Janeway command a Nebula Class instead of Voyager leaves me a bit uneasy for some reason. Maybe because it was her first command as Captain: instead of giving her a nice big ole Galaxy Class she gets the top of the line Intrepid Class since it's a stepping stone. Picard commanded the Stargazer before the Enterprise-D so let's assume that you get a bigger and more prestigious ship if you didn't screw up your first one.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I'd say losing the Stargazer was a pretty big screw up. He lost the E-D and got a better ship after that too. Since Janeway got VOY back she'll get a Miranda, then, if that survives, an Oberth.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I dunno, I'm starting to think that Starfleet doesn't want its captains to bring back their ships, since the ones that do keep getting promoted to Admiral.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Picard getting the E-D proves to me that there was another command between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. And I think it was something pretty important that no one seems to know about.
As for losing the E-D, sure, but he saved an entire solar system. He's also a respected negotiator.
Oh, and for the record... I always thought the Nebula was just a so-so design. It was cool in that it was one of the first new ships we got to see in the Next Gen era and that it showed a design evolution, but other than that it was kind of thrown together. Nice for what it was, but definitely not a star.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
It's also a second-stringer. SWACS, fleet ops, SAR, science platform... Not a long-range or high-speed Scout or Explorer, which is what Voyager was calling for.
But really... Generations was the first time you saw the Nebula class? Do you only watch the movies? That ship (under other neames, and bearing slight variations) appeared in five other episodes of TNG and DS9 prior to Generations. And thanks to expanded visual effects through CG, later episodes of DS9, and Star Trek: First Contact had dozens of them. It's a workhorse, and hardly neglected.
--Jonah
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"I was trying to make sense of [Pensive's Wetness'...] post..."
Reading that sentence is a bit like hearing someone say, "So, I was sitting there, poking myself in the eyes with rusty thumbtacks..."
ROFL!!!!!!!!! (though i am still uncertain if i was insulted by this or not? maybe i should ask some people in my guild on DDO? "Does my voice grate on you? especially when i scream when my newbie-cannon-of-doom [+2 Curse Spewing Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Presision] gets me agro?"
of course, considering my love affair with halflings, my guild: Halfling Commandos...
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by esecallum:
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness:
NOOOOOOOW how about this: *does more ass-tastic math out of his ass* 750/2 = 375 (sorry, no ass hat for you) + 60 marqui equals... yep you guessed it, a whole shit load more peps you'd never see cause that's a whole lot more peps to pay to get on the air, you see. plus it be alot more boring because the ship being a nebula would either end up stuck on a planet due to rating or resource management or they would have pulled a equinox themselves since it's clearly evident the bun would NEVA get command of a BIG-ASS SotL like a nebula class
(Humor, slap, flame)
I was trying to make sense of your rambling,somewhat incoherant post and as I far as I can make out what you are saying is that producers could not afford to show the larger crew. (and why should they?)
But the Enterprise-D which was even larger HAD A THOUSAND CREW AND WE DID NOT SEE THEM EITHER. (can someone do a face count on ALL the extras seen in the entire series run? do we see enough faces to equal a 1000?)WE DON'T NEED TO SEE THEM EITHER. (total agreement)
The argument makes no sense. (I am the president of Asia. The Argument is invalid)
You are forgetting the aesthetics involved totally,namely a splayed turkey compared to an object of beauty.The ship was going away from the planet and it was not a E-D saucer which was a hideous blueish color.This looked more appealing and,I thought I wanted you,to appreciate it as a better vessal then the Voyager class which was generic looking but your arguments relate to showing the crew which makes no sense as we never saw all the crew in TNG which had a larger crew on a larger ship. (the comment about the color of the ship against visuals in the BG are probably the 1st one you said that doesnt smack of... noobishness. good, perhaps hope for you yet adawan)
we also did not see all the crew of the Loveboat either. (wow. you think Adult Swim could do a Space Ghost-Coast-2-Coast version wth new dubs?)
If you cannot muster a cogent argument then it is best to accept what is stated. (that makes me giggle, mastery of incoherance is IC to me)
I think you need to a picture on your desktop for it to grow on you. (current BG: the pic art from the Hasagawa 1/72 scale VF-0S Fighter Mode agaist a blue, partyly cloudy ocean. got it from MACROSS World)
It was highly compact,and gave a holding to my chest appearance,as it clutched the engines,and secondary hull to it's belly. (Its a modern era Miranda looking ship. beautiful like all the other cannon ships seen in the movies, sir)
You could paste a picture of it from the end of Generations. (pass. anything Macross rapes my pie hole, TU)
It had a very distinct appearance that is why I am in love with it. [/QB]
that's good. my love affair is with modern VF's. if it transforms, carries a rifle, lots of missles, looks good even when they blow the fuck up... i hump 'em. Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Lulz is another word for lolz which is another word for lol. Major is an adjective but in this case I made a joke treating it like a military rank. What I was saying, my friend, is that I found your post very funny.
Why thank you Dan. *bows in jubilence*
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Picard getting the E-D proves to me that there was another command between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. And I think it was something pretty important that no one seems to know about.
I always had the impression he had a desk job for most of that stretch...although he did mention that the first time he saw Tasha HIS ship had shown up to the same incident as her's (and we know she was on Enterprise from the get-go) so he probably did have at least one command immediately prior to the Enterprise-D.
As for the Nebula, it's funny, I always thought it looked like a frog too...in a good way. It's a fine design, bit it's just silly to think that ANY established design is EVER going to be the lead ship in any new series. They pay the art department lots of money to design new things for a reason.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
We were comparing Voyager to a frog, but I see your point. Add some googly eyes to the front view and paint it green, and you got a bull frog on your hands.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I don't see why losing the Stargazer was such a huge screwup. It was an unprovoked attack by an unknown assailant. Just because the Enterprises have the Shield of Plot doesn't mean Starfleet doesn't expect losses. He cleared the court-martial fine, after all.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
True. But serving on a run-down overworked ship that got blown up, then doing nothing for 12 years or whatever hardly qualifies one to command the flagship. He was doing something big and secrety.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote: Picard getting the E-D proves to me that there was another command between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. And I think it was something pretty important that no one seems to know about.
He was doing something. He was on a ship that rendezvoused with another ship carrying Tasha Yar, a year or two before taking command of the Enterprise. However, there's no proof that he was actually in command of the ship at the time. And someone does know about it; Ishara Yar, whom Picard told the story to.
If I had to guess, I'd say that he wasn't in command; he was just an observer or passenger. I say this because Picard never mentions another command other than the Stargazer, which he mentions a lot. Of course, I believe your point is that Picard never mentions another command because the command was secret. But then why would he tell Ishara about it, unless he just didn't care that she knew confidential information?
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Well, do we know how long the Enterprise D was in dry dock/being built for. It was one of the first Galaxy's launched ( 2nd or 3rd, no?) and therefore probably had a large testing stage, and the like.
Perhaps Picard could have actually been put in command of the Enterprise soon after her keel was laid, which coincidentally could have been soon after (from months to a year, for all we know he was taking some unused shore leave, not to mention that the court martial could have taken a long time) the Stargazer incident.
So, he could have supervised the construction/ initial fitting of equipment, or been given a temporary assignment, maybe a desk job, untill Enterprise was ready to launch.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There were quite a few years that passed between the loss of the Stargazer and the launch of the Enterprise. And there wouldn't really be any reason to put a field officer in command of the ship while it's under constrution.
Picard tells Ishara that "his" ship had responded to the problem on whatever planet. Of course he also said that "her" ship had responded. So there's the possibility that he was in command, but he wouldn't necessarily have had to have been. He was on the planet, though, because he saw Tasha run through a mine field or something.
I just don't see Picard going from the captain of a nothing ship to commander of the flagship without some other qualification.
The reason that Picard never mentions another command is because, at the time the Ishara Yar episode was written, he was supposed to be refering to the Enterprise when he told the story of his ship responding. That was later contradicted by the flashback in AGT. But even within the episode it's contradicted, because he says that when he saw Tasha's heroics, he knew he wanted her on his "next" command. That only proves that he wasn't on the Enterprise yet, but doesn't prove he was in command of the ship that responded to the distress call. I still think he was though.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
That really depends on how you define a "nothing ship". Sure the Stargazer was old, but by most accounts she was way out there beyond the Federation frontier, probably raking up a number of successful first contacts (with the possible exception of Chalna, as it may or may not have been where Jack Crusher bought it) even skirting Ferengi space nearly a decade before first contact AND was involved in a truce offering during the Cardassian Wars. So perhaps from this we could conclude that he made quite a name for himself as a capable diplomat, an experienced frontier commander and a capable tactician...they even named a manoeuvre after him.
Still, I'm sure he had a command between the Stargazer and the E-D regardless.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
If he had a command in the interim, it was probably nothing eventful. Otherwise he would have mentioned it.
"There were quite a few years that passed between the loss of the Stargazer and the launch of the Enterprise. And there wouldn't really be any reason to put a field officer in command of the ship while it's under constrution"
Jonathan archer was given command of Enterprise while still under construction. Though he did have a part to play in the whole project so...
However, Will decker had command of the E-nil while it was undergoing it's refit, and he was supposed to take command afterwards for feild duty. He was a feild officer, as I believe he or Ilia mentioned that his ship/he was stationed at her home planet.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Archer wasn't given command of Enterprise until she was for the most part complete. As for Will Decker, the Enterprise was probably still in commission during her conversion warranting the need for a CO of the ship... or Decker wasn't officially in command until her conversion was for the most part complete.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Field. "'I' before 'E' except after 'C'." Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
There's so many exceptions to that rule it shouldn't be one.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You're right that Picard likely scored some brownie points while on the Stargazer. He commanded the ship for quite a awhile too. It's also possible they were involved in some things we don't know about that would've made him even more visible to the brass.
I still think he commanded another ship though. And there are other reasons he might not discuss it alot other than it being uneventful. It could be classified.
Posted by esecallum (Member # 2074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Meheheh. Be thou careful for what thou wishest.
Isn't "cruiser" kind of a vague superclass anyway? Or is that 'battlecruiser'...
I don't like the Fed's evolution towards long and thin. I preferred tall and wide - the Galaxy's still my favorite design, although the Sovereign comes damn close.
That is what,I was trying to say,that many Voyager issues could,be solved by using,the Nebula class,as defined at the end of Generations.
The ship is a major,star of TOS and by putting,that splayed chicken intrepid class,they lost a major identity/star of the show.Voyager just lacked,any great distinction.
Image is vital in today's world.
A memorable image is worth money in the bank.
Look how much,multinationals spend/waste vast amounts of money on the correct image.An airline called British Airways spend $120 million painting the rudders,with stupid looking graffiti art after a consultant told them to do so as a joke.
The stupid chairman was fired 6 months later.
Anyone know which idiot designed/implemented the chicken Voyager?
The nebula class is bigger,and would have made awesome FX shots as the ship,turned or manoevered,with the large disc section.
It would have been magnificent.
If only they had tried harder.
I cry at the lost opportunity.
It would have presence,grace and momentum and majesty.
Majesty is very important in a lead ship.
Who else agrees with me on this very important matter?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Very important? For a series that's been over for years? And that none of us had any say in in the first place?
So to sum up, you feel you could have run the show better than the people who did, and that a kit-bashed Galaxy Class could've fixed most of Voyager's problems.
No. Making Voyager a Nebula Class ship would not have solved a single one of the show's problems. In fact, people would've said, "Why did they use a Nebula Class ship? They couldn't even come up with something new? Screw it... I'm going to watch The Weakest Link" Now, what they could've done is show more aspects of the ship that people were interested in, like the Aeroshuttle.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: You're right that Picard likely scored some brownie points while on the Stargazer. He commanded the ship for quite a awhile too. It's also possible they were involved in some things we don't know about that would've made him even more visible to the brass.
I still think he commanded another ship though. And there are other reasons he might not discuss it alot other than it being uneventful. It could be classified.
Oh I agree, we know he had another ship because of how he met Tasha. As for what he did and why we never heard any more about it, all we know is that nothing that went on on that ship directly impacted anything we saw on the show and there's the small fact that we didn't see these characters 24/7 and hear every last conversation everybody ever had...oh and the fact that Picard is a very private person.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Once upon a time, I posited that during the 9-year interregnum, Picard could have been Starfleet's Ramius, taking out the lead ship for each new class & doing the shakedown workups.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Posted by escallum: "The ship is a major,star of TOS..."
"The nebula class is bigger,and would have made awesome FX shots as the ship,turned or manoevered,with the large disc section."
Yes, because in Kirk's era, we saw flocks of Nebulae flying around space, showing off their "discs". The point is, Voyager is supposed to be maneuverable, and the Nebula class, being almost the size of the galaxy class, is not very maneuverable. And it is not always the size of the ship, just how you use it that matters.
Also posted by escallum: "That is what,I was trying to say,that many Voyager issues could,be solved by using,the Nebula class,as defined at the end of Generations."
Are we practicing to be a William Shatner impressionist? The Nebula class had been seen a fair few times before Generations. And while it is a beautiful ship, it just doesn't have the original-ness needed to be the lead ship of a series. If you look at it, ALL of the Trek series, with the exception of TAS have had a new and interesting ship design. In TOS, you get the Constitution class ( although it was the first series, so it HAD to be new and beautiful), TNG got the Galaxy class, DS9 got the Terok-Nor style stations and the Defiant, VOY got the Intrepid class, and ENT got the NX class. All except the NX class (Akira-prise)are original designs that had not been seen before.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
... your just feeding the Class Bravo fire with more LOX discussing this tripe with 'E', dude. He isn't talking to discuss, he talking to babble some nonsence shit... sort like me Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Well, I felt it was time for me to lend some wise ass comments. He needs, to learn how, to, use commas the right,way. Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sean: Yes, because in Kirk's era, we saw flocks of Nebulae flying around space, showing off their "discs".
And Kirk only had that old E-nil and E-A. He should have felt cheated.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sean: Are we practicing to be a William Shatner impressionist?
I didn't realize Shatner painted.
I hope it's better than his singing.
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
He...Is a go...od painter.....he paints still life...images..of frui...t Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well, the paintings defiantly make a more pleasant SOUND than his singing.
Not that I should criticise, I'm crap with paints, oils and inks.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Also, I don't recall the Nebula class having landing gears, bio neural gel packs, variable-geometry pylons, an Emergency Medical Hologram, and all the other technocrap that pervaded the show.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I *liked* Common People.
I think escallum was trying to mention the Constitution-class Intrepid from TOS, not to say that Nebula-class ships roamed the black at the time. Still it was hardly a major star, it showed up in one episode.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
No, i think he was trying to say that the ship (the Enterprise) was a star of the show during TOS and the ship should be a star in Voyager too.
This gives me a headache.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:Originally posted by esecallum: Anyone know which idiot designed/implemented the chicken Voyager?
That would be Rick Sternbach, who helped design the Nebula class, of which you so adore.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
If you want to get technical, Ed Miarecki designed the prototype Nebula that made for Wolf 359, but Rick Sternbach and Mike Okuda refined the design before its first feature appearance in "The Wounded".
And esecallum, please stop with the comma abuse!
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yeah, it's getting on my nerves. I assume (or rather, hope) you don't speak any language that uses the Latin alphabet natively, because the rules for commas are the same in all of them (at least I've never heard of an exception). So, if that is the case, let me educate you: A comma is used to indicate a pause in thought or speech. (This includes all the rules for parenthetical expressions and dependent clauses and so on - in speech, you are properly supposed to pause in those places.) So, escallum, every time you stick a comma in, it means we're reading a pause, which is screwing up how easily we can read what you're saying. Stop it please.
Posted by esecallum (Member # 2074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sean: Posted by escallum: "The ship is a major,star of TOS..."
"The nebula class is bigger,and would have made awesome FX shots as the ship,turned or manoevered,with the large disc section."
Yes, because in Kirk's era, we saw flocks of Nebulae flying around space, showing off their "discs". The point is, Voyager is supposed to be maneuverable, and the Nebula class, being almost the size of the galaxy class, is not very maneuverable. And it is not always the size of the ship, just how you use it that matters.
Also posted by escallum: "That is what,I was trying to say,that many Voyager issues could,be solved by using,the Nebula class,as defined at the end of Generations."
Are we practicing to be a William Shatner impressionist? The Nebula class had been seen a fair few times before Generations. And while it is a beautiful ship, it just doesn't have the original-ness needed to be the lead ship of a series. If you look at it, ALL of the Trek series, with the exception of TAS have had a new and interesting ship design. In TOS, you get the Constitution class ( although it was the first series, so it HAD to be new and beautiful), TNG got the Galaxy class, DS9 got the Terok-Nor style stations and the Defiant, VOY got the Intrepid class, and ENT got the NX class. All except the NX class (Akira-prise)are original designs that had not been seen before.
Sean I know that.
But the thing there is no rule which says a series must have a new designed ship every time.In any case the nebula was seen very seldom and you would miss it if you blinked.So your reasoning is invalid.
You say it could not be a lead ship which makes you prejudiced against the nebula class.This is like saying a black could not be a lead due to prejudice.
The internal fitting regarding gel packs and so forth are not relavant and are internal fittings.
The ship in TOS is/was a major star and gave the show IDENTITY.
You have ignored the issue of identity.
you have an identity.
if that identity was replaced with a plain generic non-descript identity that would make you less interesting.
another analogy to help you understand would be for you is that if you were a blond hunk body type and was replaced by a glass wearing geek type wearing a sweater you would automatically be ignored by girls and be looked down than if you were a blue eyed blond hunk like brad pitt.
In voyager it was a generic anonymous look and was never used in a major way due to its turdish look.
it was a boring ,ugly design and lacked star quality.
Rick Sternback as the designer of the intrepid had no idea how a star trek works and should not have been given this task or he he should have been over ruled and the nebula class should have been used.
Also you say it is just a E-D saucer stuck on a engineering section but you are wrong.
if you look at the edges of the saucer you will it is not tapered to a thin edge and those funny bite marks like the E-D.
The disc on the nebula is more like the disc on the Excelsior or the E-A.
Voyager could be remarketed by replacing all voyager shots with nebula class shots using automation programs which would use an overlay program to identitfy the voyager ship shape and replace it with the nebula class.
this would allow voyager to achieve an identity which it not have before and also promote the next new film.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Oh, please....
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by esecallum: Rick Sternback as the designer of the intrepid had no idea how a star trek works and should not have been given this task or he he should have been over ruled and the nebula class should have been used.
And with that, you just lost all credibility.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No, don't engage, it'll only encourage him.
Posted by Ventriloquists Got Shot (Member # 239) on :
Dude, hot guys can wear sweaters too.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
"another analogy to help you understand"
No... we all understand your argument just fine. Noone agrees with you.
Oh, and you can't say that the Nebula appeared so beautifully and memorably in Generations, so much so that it would make a great lead ship because everyone loved it in the movie, then turn around and say that it's only made blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearances.
"Your argument is invalid" Uh huh. You know, you should really just write a blog. You'd be a lot less frustrated.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
*screams* LOCK!!!!!!! TeeeeeeeeeeeeeehHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Threaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa *pause* aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddddddddd,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...... *pauses to pant* Ah fuck this, i'm going to PT and enjoy the rest of my off shift weekend....
Lock Zee Thread! I'd rather talk about Mecha Masterbation (which includes BSG-5 and Sarah from T-girl Cronies, as well as Buffy-Bot! Woo-woo!), please?
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
How the hell did this thread get to six pages? Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Just bad luck Johnny, just bad luck, but, since it is here I guess I should post.
Starfleet command to esecallum it's time to take your protein pill and put your space suit on.....
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
It seems fairly apparent that this individual is a troll. His relentless mantra that the Nebula class should have been used on Voyager and that anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't truly understand Star Trek is a giveaway. Not "something other than the Intrepid class" or "perhaps something along the lines of the Nebula class" but "the Nebula class, you aesthetically ignorant Philistines!". He's being too deliberately obstinate to be trying do anything but rile up members of the board. This is exactly what he did with his absurd thread about Star Trek VI. Or maybe he's a North Korean dictator. I think Kim Jong Il is irrationally obstinate too.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Obstinate, but hilarious
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Oh good, another quoting session. Lets see...
" You say it could not be a lead ship which makes you prejudiced against the nebula class.This is like saying a black could not be a lead due to prejudice ."
When did I ever say that I hated the design? i think it is nice looking, but not lead ship material.
" you have an identity "
Very observant.
" The internal fitting regarding gel packs and so forth are not relavant and are internal fittings ."
So youre saying the ONLY thing that matters regarding a ship is how it looks?
"... if that identity was replaced with a plain generic non-descript identity that would make you less interesting.
I already have a plain generic non-descript identity. Also, Many people with girlfriends are myopic, and wear sweaters.
" Also you say it is just a E-D saucer stuck on a engineering section but you are wrong ."
When did I say this? You must be the world's best paraphraser.
" The disc on the nebula is more like the disc on the Excelsior or the E-A ."
What disc? Also, (mainly because I'm getting tired of hitting the quote key) the next movie is set in the TOS time period. What is remastering a show that has been off the air for less than a decade going to do for movie publicity?
Hmm, this is kinda fun Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
"Hmm, this is kinda fun "
Z, sometimes a troll is needed to induce a lively spirit, as Johnny asked, how did this thread get to be six pages long? Easy, we went under the bridge and beat the trolls mercilessly with rubber chickens and real fish!
Those gel packs, well, they were just non-talking plot devices. Which means that with a Nebbie you wouldn't need a plot?
Oh, and it is a SAUCER, not a fucking disc!!! EDIT: forgot my /
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
He could be reffering to the AWACS dish that the Phoenix had in the Nebbie's first prominent appearance. But, the Farragut from Generations didn't have that "disc", only a mission pod. Even if he is a troll, I find it fun to argue with his arrogant selfserving views. Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
*shrug* Ignoring him or enjoying it, either way he does not accomplish his goal. I just like being a jerk (for me) without having to feel bad about it! It's cathartic.
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: Z, sometimes a troll is needed to induce a lively spirit, as Johnny asked, how did this thread get to be six pages long? Easy, we went under the bridge and beat the trolls mercilessly with rubber chickens and real fish!
Why waste real fish? You're average seafood restaurant has plenty of plastic ones on the walls. Either way, trolling on Flare seems pretty pointless since no one is overly serious about the subject and none of the members are likely to have the sort of reaction a troll is looking for.
Back onto the topic; I've always liked the Intrepid class design, especially from above. My only complaint about the design has been that the interface between the saucer and the secondary hull seems a bit too abrupt.
My heresy is that I've never actually liked the Galaxy class; it's proportions always seemed wrong to me. It had a good side view but front and top views always made the secondary hull and nacelles appear freakishly small in comparison to the enormous saucer. And putting the long axis of the elliptical saucer perpendicular to the forward motion of the ship made it seem clumsy. I was very pleased with the Sovereign class design, which fixed most of what I thought was wrong with the Galaxy class.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
...i just thought E was a fucking retard. just google his name and the miles and miles of troll forum dry humpage. LOCK THE THREAD!
Hell, google me... and... the mil... oh fuck.
:|
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Voyager should have been a turnip. Think about it. When has anyone ever heard of a turnip getting lost in the Delta Quadrant? Just doesn't happen. *shrug*
Also, a turnip's disc has much more in common with the Ent-A's or Excelsior's (also known as USS Excelsior, USS Hood, USS Melbourne (although that should've been a Nebula), USS Lakota, USS Gorkon) than a carrot. The facts speak for themselves.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Z, I thought that is what gave the GCS the flair(flare) that it has.
Does the ese wake up in the morning and decide where to troll, or just go by whim?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: ...i just thought E was a fucking retard. just google his name and the miles and miles of troll forum dry humpage. LOCK THE THREAD!
Hell, google me... and... the mil... oh fuck.
:|
I also think E is a she. Now that explains the poor grammar and lack of knowledge! Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
Good point. Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
*enters the room brandishing a weapon pointed at MNW*
You take that back.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Okay, okay. Female poster, for the most part, use proper grammar and are knowledgeable about Trek.
'cept when they suffer from hysteria. Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
She'll kick your ass anyway. Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
No, I'll just get out the EMP gun.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Because he's a robot now?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I am Bender, please insert girder. Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
A gun that shoots effing menopause?
Okay, now I am scared. Mood swings, hot flashes, good God, the loss of what little sanity they have.......
A girder? I thought we had discussed a penis went in there? Damn kids gettin' everything all goofed up... I tell ya'.
Posted by esecallum (Member # 2074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune:
I will agree that the ending shot in Generations was gorgeous and that the Farragut looked great. [/QB]
Aban Rune I nearly forgot you had posted your kind words,as I was set upon by the more less refined persons who bore me down with their burden now that I remember you I can only say Aban Rune you think just like me.I am so happy to find a kindred spirit.You know how I think.You too thought it looked awesome.After so many derogatory comments,I was despairing of finding a like minded individual,who could see what I saw,and who could appreciate the beauty that I saw,in my mind when that,image presented ,it itself to my,hungry eyes,lifting me,and my spirits as only,a sensitive individual would,be lifted by such,grace and,form.
I feel sorry for the many,who,by limit of their,of mind and vision could not,would not lift their heads to a greater form,an image,an awesomeness,to lift them from the drudgery of mundane existence,forever bound by a self imposed limitation.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Now you and Aban Rune must merge with V'ger...
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
If you put in some synths and a drum machine beat his last post could be a song from the 80's.
As for the nebula class, I think the rear of it looks a bit like a chrysler crossfire, which in turn looks like a dog taking a poo.
If said dog had a mission pod shaped dog jacket on.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You obviously haven't read anything else I've written.
This guy is totally phoney. Noone can be this oblivious to reality without doing it on purpose.
Lock it up.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
And yet when you read her blog, you can't help but to think she believes in the shit she's spewing out.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Yeah, this has gone on long enough.
Locky locky.
At least until someone else comes along and decides it should be open or something...
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