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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,15,10,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:38 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <a href="http://www.startrek.com/launch/keyevents.asp" target="_blank">http://www.startrek.com/launch/keyevents.asp</a><p>Pretty consistent with the Chronology, but one worrying inconsistency is the complete omission of the Eugenics Wars. Could it be intentional? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Spike</b> <br /><small>Member # 322</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,15,10,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:52 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Having learned the lessons of the last World War, the first united Earth government is established. Australia is the only nation that declines membership.<hr></blockquote><p>In which episode was that mentioned? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,15,10,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:52 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Indeed distressing.<p>Things tht make me happy though: The picture of the TOs Zefram Cochrane. They are still including TOS references, rather than trying to pretend that old Star Trek never happened , as i was beginning to fear<p>The Australia thing is a bit of Okuda's Encyclopedia version of history. In 'Attached' Bev and Jean Luc were having breakfast, and discussing the fact that the Kesprytt was not a unified planet, which is a prerequisite for Federation memebership. She was groping for an example of 'what if a planet was peaceful, but not all nations wanted to join the Federation' kind of argument.. so she said 'What if, say, australia, didnt join United Nations. Would Earth not be able to be in the Federation?' I think this was just hyperbole, but Okuda took this as honest-to-god-truth that Australia had not wanted to join the United Earth Government and wrote it in the chronology and encyclopedia, and its been repeatedly quoted and misquoted ever since whenever they refer to the final unification of Earth Government.<p>Antoher example in my eyes, of Okuda's bad effect on continuity with his sourcebook writing<p>[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,15,10,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Australia thing is conjectured in the Chronology, but is actually the result in two references to the world government in TNG and "First Contact"<p>In TNG, Data mentioned that Australia joined the world government in 2150, yet in "First Contact" Picard tells us that a united world government was achieved 50 years after Cochrane (2113). This made Okuda wonder if Australia was a late-comer. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,15,10,58,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:58 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It also seems they shoved the TMP S.S. Enterprise under the carpet.<br />At least they maintained the Nomad probe, Voyager 6, the S.S. Valiant and the S.S. Mariposa.<br />Funny to see how the Mir and the Challenger have entered the Star Trek Universe. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,15,11,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:03 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> When did Data make his comment? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,1,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:49 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The same episode in which he stated that TV disappeared in the 2140s and Ireland did something. IIRC, it was the episodes with the S.S. Birdseye crygenic red-necks. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,7,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:02 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'll watch 'The Neutral Zone' again (it was the second thing i ever taped when i was a kid.. 'Conspiracy' was the first, and Remmicks last seen saw a lot of slow mo)..<p>It was a vital episode because it was the first ever date (2364) given for the Trek universe, but the mention of TV was the 2040s, not 2140s<p>I thought an Ireland reference want made until two years later when Data made his reunification in 2026 comment.<p>And none of the other dates had even been decided yet, like the 2161 Federation, so i dont see how he could have said it. it seems to me like you are recalling every date data ever said all mixed together <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> <br /><small>Member # 73</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,9,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "It was a vital episode because it was the first ever date (2364) given for the Trek universe, but the mention of TV was the 2040s, not 2140s"<p>Not to nitpick, but it wasn't the first date given in the Star Trek universe. It was the first time the current date was given though, which I think it what you meant.<p>The first time the century was given was, IIRC, Star Trek II, which opened with a caption saying "In the 23rd century". <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,10,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:47 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> One more thing about the ST.com timeline:<br />If they ever depict the 'Warp 5 Complex', it better be some big-ass building housing thousands of scientists, and not some ramshackle log cabin in the Montana woods.<p>And about the interviews:<br />Jolene Blalock has been trained very well to say all the things we like to hear <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <p>When asked about his first time as Mayweather, Montgomery gave some very evasive and cryptic answers... Something like "hey, I could have been equally happy being a carpenter". Weird.<p>[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: Harry ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,19,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:39 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> My mistake.. it was the origination of the whole dating system for trek by nailing down TNG season 1 to 2364.<br />and i agree, ST:II was the first century reference, although most people had put it together by hearing '300 years' said so much in TOS (and ignoring Decker's '500 years comment' and Trelane's '800 years')<p>Warp 5 'Complex'? What for.. i thought that all of Earth's breakthroughs in theoretical and applied physics, high energy field manipulation, precision machining, metallurgy and spaceflight logistics were made by homeless people in sheet metal shacks?<p>[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,19,43,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:43 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> And before you smegheads say it, yes i realize that once they make sheet metal shacks they are no longer homeless... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>targetemployee</b> <br /><small>Member # 217</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,16,21,14,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:14 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The canonical evidence-dialogue mind you-in "Up the Long Ladder" is that there was no world government in the early 22nd century. There were the beginnings of a world government. One of the early attempts occured in Europe. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,17,1,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 17, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:31 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd advise people not to get distressed over the lack of "S.S. Enterprise" references in the above timeline. As far as I can tell, it's supposed to be a canon-based one, and so far there is no canon info on that ringed ship that would have a date stamped to it. All we have is a picture, and whoever made that timeline for Paramount would not have a proper place for the picture in there. An encyclopedia might include it; a compact little chronology would not.<p>What was the relevant dialogue in "Up the Long Ladder" again? Keep in mind that there still is a France in the 24th century, even though apparently the world has a unified government. So a mention of distinct political entities in "Ladder" need not mean that these entities still *functioned* at the time the Mariposa sailed out.<p>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,17,6,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 17, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:26 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I dont have the exact quote, but Data and Picard were doing the research, and while chatting about the time period Picard said 'the first stirrings of a unified world government' in reference to something like the 'European Hegemony' So that means that around the Mariposa's launch date, there was *NOT* a united Earth.<p>BTW, things that actual characters said in dialogue, on the show, still counts as canon right? Just wondering becasue too many starry eyed fans would rather just believe everything in Okuda's books instead and come up with explanations why the dialogue was wrong.. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,17,10,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 17, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:09 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Picard & Riker. Johnny mentioned that the European Hegemony was one of the first steps towards a single world government.<p>Apparently, the Council of Europe, the League of Nations, The UN, & the EU were all like early Data models. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,17,18,43,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 17, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:43 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That whole Australia holding out was PURE supposition by Beverly Crusher over breakfast with Picard. It "didn't happen". <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,17,18,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 17, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:52 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> She was just grasping at straws trying to come up with a metaphor.. I would be like me saying 'Well, what if Texas had decided not to join the Union' and then Okuda supposing that Texas had been the last state to be admitted based on that comment i made trying to illustrate some completely random point! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,19,3,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 19, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:26 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Speaking of Texas, doesn't it have its own army/navy or something - some provision that was made way-back-when when Texas joined up to form the US? And that it is different to every other state?<p>We had a similar thing here in Australia - not about armies, but that New Zealand was possibily going to join the Commonwealth of Australia and become a state - they opted out before Federation or before the referendum on Federation back in the 19th century. And WA (Western Australia) was holding out from joining up for a long time too... they, of course did eventually join. Australia is the only continent to have only one country! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,19,6,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 19, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:15 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> According to king of the hill, texans still think they live in their own country. they must be quite proud to have illicitly taken over ours.<p>um.. the next post should be about star trek timelines. if anyone wants to reply to what ive written here, put it in the flameboard <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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