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$POILER: Are the Vulcans right?
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,15,43,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:43 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm interested to know what the reaction is to being on the wrong side of an overapplied application of a version of the Prime Directive? Are the Vulcans right to limit humans to our own solar system for 88 years after we get faster than light? It seemed harsh, being judged by smug and superior @$$h0le$ who have condemned you to fail at galactic politics before we even try. I understand giving a species the opportunity to succeed or fail on its own, such as not 'giving' us warp five-drives, but what does it mean when we have the ability to boldly go and are limited because of a presumption that we will fail? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Ryan McReynolds</b> <br /><small>Member # 28</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,15,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:49 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I feel that they may be right in that humanity wasn't ready to join the interstellar community, but they had no right to hold us back. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,17,21,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:21 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, see, they weren't holding us back, they just weren't giving us their technology. Listen to Archer's speech: he's pissed because if the Vulcans had given his father access to their technology, Archer's father would've succeeded. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,17,22,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:22 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Here's my Theory of Enterprise. We'll see what happens in seven years.<p>Anyway:<p>The Vulcans are preparing humanity for a confrontation with the Romulans. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,17,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:24 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, that's a good reason for them to keep quiet about what they know of the Romulans. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,17,29,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:29 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, see, we don't really know if the Vulcans knew about the Romulans, at least in any specific modern detail. But that's my theory, anyway. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>David Templar</b> <br /><small>Member # 580</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,18,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There's a good reason why the Vulcan might have been holding the humans back: the galaxy might have been full of xenophobic races who would wipe out any just-warp-capable races, on the grounds that they might be a threat to them in the future. Dunno how this Trek's map differs from the other Treks, but Vulcan could be a good distances away, prevent the Vulcan fleet from protecting Earth without exposing their own planets. Maybe the Vulcans were trying to make sure Earth was capable of defending it self (to some extent) against aggressors before letting them run out there, causing trouble. I mean, for crying out loud, they don't even have shields! The moment they come across something that isn't particle or plasma based, like the disruptor, they're gonna start getting holes in their hull. <p>*still waiting for whatever started the almost hundred year of bad blood between the Klingons and the humans* <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,27,18,48,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:48 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It probably already started. A captured Klingon officer who can't escape without the help of humans? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dukhat</b> <br /><small>Member # 341</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,28,8,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 28, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:03 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Although I'm not saying it's a downright copy, I do see similarities between Enterprise's potential arc and the Babylon 5 movie "In the Beginning." In the movie, humans have become the up-and-coming new spacefaring race, and want to expand their territory. This includes making contact with the Minbari for the purpose of testing the Minbari's military strength. The Centauri ambassador Londo Mollari knows about the Minbari & tries to tell the humans that a first contact of this nature will most likely end up with the human race becoming extinct. Of course, the too-big-for-their-britches humans ignore Londo's advice, & the rest is history.<p>I can see the Vulcans (Soval especially) as the Londo figure, desperately trying to convince the humans not to go too far because they may not be ready for the consequences of their actions. I can also see the Klingons as the Minbari, with the whole "disastrous first contact" thing actually still to come, barring the events in Broken Bow. If this is indeed what Enterprise is about, then I will be quite intrigued as to how things will turn out. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Proteus</b> <br /><small>Member # 212</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,12,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:51 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> not ONLY are the Vulcans preparing humanity for the Romulans, but the Romulans from the future are using the Suliban to split apart the Klingon Empire in the past.<p>(the dark figure from the future was a Romulan) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,12,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:53 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> (the dark figure from the future was a Romulan) <hr></blockquote><p>!!!!????<br />how do we know this?!... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>David Templar</b> <br /><small>Member # 580</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,15,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:18 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, it wasn't blurred very well... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Ryan McReynolds</b> <br /><small>Member # 28</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,15,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:42 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> ...and yet we still didn't see any pointed ears or upswept eyebrows. It <i>could</i> have been a Romulan, or a human, or a Vulcan, or a Trill, or a Bajoran, or a Scalosian, or an Ullian, or an Eminian, or any of the many near-human aliens <i>Trek</i> has shown us, or any of the easily inferred near-human aliens it hasn't shown us yet.<p>[ October 01, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,15,48,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:48 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yeah, I mean i dont have digital cable (my UPN viewing mode is usually holding a coat hanger) but I have the episode pretty clear and im pretty sure there isnt much more to see than what i did. And keeping in mind that if they didnt want us to know that they wouldnt show it at this point. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,20,57,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:57 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Erm... I feel I should point out that people seem to have forgotten the Federation's policies regarding giving away technology. Remember in VOY, when they could get out of trouble by handing out advanced tech, but they wouldn't? Presumably, what the Vulcans are doing is just an early version of the same principle. They expect us to figure things out ourselves, not just to be handed everything on a pointy-eared platter... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Obi Juan</b> <br /><small>Member # 90</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,1,21,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 01, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:53 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That platter has ears!<br />And pointy ones at that! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Woodside Kid</b> <br /><small>Member # 699</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,2,8,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 02, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:42 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Well, see, we don't really know if the Vulcans knew about the Romulans, <br />at least in any specific modern detail. But that's my theory, anyway. <hr></blockquote><p>Not much, if you go by "Balance Of Terror". Spock flat out states, "No human, Romulan, or ally has ever seen the other." Moreover, in the later briefing room sequence he says, "and if the Romulans are an offshoot of my Vulcan blood, and i think this likely." If the Vulcans knew they were related to the Romulans in 2151, shouldn't Spock know that in 2266? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,2,11,7,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 02, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:07 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A) They might make a logical hypothesis that the Romulans may be an off-shoot of their race. Because they're unable to learn this for certain, they don't make it common knowledge.<p>B) Fearful of a reprisal against Vulcans if it turns out that a potential enemy (which is all they are at this point) is directly related to their race, the Vulcan High Council (or whatever) keeps this information to themselves, therefore, the vast majority of the Vulcan populace is unaware that Romulans used to be Vulcans ... as Omega is fond of saying, a lie is only a lie if it's a conscious deception. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,2,13,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 02, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:02 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Just because the Vulcan government could be aware of the Romulans doesn't mean Spock would. I imagine Humans, as a class, are aware of all sorts of things I personally have never heard of. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Balaam Xumucane</b> <br /><small>Member # 419</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,9,2,16,45,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 02, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:45 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I suspect it's not as devious as all that with the Romulans. I get the feeling that they are trying to prepare us as a culture to be a more effective space-faring culture. It sounds as though humans have been out to space (the 'boomers' (fusion pile ships?)), but not in signifigant numbers and havent' really made much of an impression.<p>I dunno, if I were the Vulcans, I'd be somewhat careful about giving us new technology. They may have however tenuously curbed our tendency to make war among ourselves, but our potential for xenophobia is pretty culturally deep. Tucker's reaction to the atmopheric weening ritual with the child on Rigel being a prime example. I would say that they are indeed right. I believe T'pol as much says that we are a 'primitive' culture. If you gave cavemen a starship they'd have a tough time figuring out how that was going to let them get more mammoth meat (but man, if they did...) What I'm saying is that the Vulcans are trying to advance our culture in step with our technological capacity, and I would argue that it is a very good idea. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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