I've had the same thoughts as this guy. We've seen the exact situation here at Flare, except the vitriol has been leveled at Enterprise and the producers of Star Trek. There is a vocal segment of Trek fans who seem to find fault with everything and find good in nothing when it comes to Enterprise, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, etc. I'm not saying that these people don't have a point in their criticisms nor that they don't have the right to express themselves, but some of the criticisms have been over stuff that is silly. Once again, Flare has a few good examples of this as well.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
indeed.
Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :
This section 31 guy is quite correct.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
I agree to a large extent, as well. Everyone, naturally, has the right to do and say essentially whatever they want. Certainly, raising criticism is a fun part of any fan's experience, and there is always a certain love-hate relationship with the producers of any show. Look at Star Wars, Babylon 5, or Buffy fandom for other good examples. But I feel that, if one genuinely finds fault in every aspect of a television show, they really have to ask themselves why they're watching the show to begin with. Maybe it just feels good to feel "superior" to the production staff, and to have the ability to say they make mistakes. I don't know... but when I don't like something, I generally try not to keep exposing myself to it.
On the other hand, I tend to disagree with the notion that there are "real" Star Trek fans that are somehow different from "fake" fans. If a person calls themselves a fan, I tend to take them at their word. Certainly, in a franchise of five series and almost ten movies, one can be a Star Trek fan and not be a fan of all of the Star Trek incarnations. It's also possible to be a Star Trek fan and not want Star Trek to continue being produced.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
The guy has a point.... but if this is true why do TPTB continue to do the things they are doing?
It's quite logical. If people complain, and their collective complaints will destroy Star Trek, then why not resolve the issue so they don't feel the need to complain?
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by J: It's quite logical. If people complain, and their collective complaints will destroy Star Trek, then why not resolve the issue so they don't feel the need to complain?
You go do that, while I go build a cannon capable of accelerating a hamster to 10^5c. I predicate that it'll defeat most defensive shield and armor systems currently fielded by Starfleet's projected Threat Force, including the Borg.
Seriously though, some of the complaints lies with stuff that has already happened. There's always going to be "it should have been done this way, rather than that way" complaints, which is unsolvable without a time machine. Sure you can tell people what's done is done, no use crying about it now, but I doubt they'd listen.
I wouldn't.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Originally posted by J: The guy has a point.... but if this is true why do TPTB continue to do the things they are doing?
It's quite logical. If people complain, and their collective complaints will destroy Star Trek, then why not resolve the issue so they don't feel the need to complain?
Because, to be quite logical, if Star Trek was stuffed to the gills with that elusive stuff that won't make the wanking fanboys complain, I'd shoot myself in the head.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
If this guy says that Voyager is the answer to Star Trek's problems, then I dont want to be a Star Trek fan.
Posted by Timelord (Member # 717) on :
Quoted from Section 31:
quote:But the biggest problem of all is the fact that many of Trek's biggest and smartest fans are not speaking out. Like I said, while it may appear that the vast majority has a lot against Voyager, I have seen first-hand that it's quite the opposite. It's only that the most vocal fans are the critics.
How are we determining who the "big" and "smart" fans are? I suppose if you criticize at all, you can't be a big fan, huh?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
No, that's not what he's saying at all. There are a lot of "big" and "smart" Star Trek issues on both sides of the issue that the author is taking issue with. The "big" and "smart" on the very vocal and very critical side are getting lots of airtime, so to speak. Their counterparts on the other side of the issue are the ones that are staying quiet. Read that quote you cited again. He says "many of Trek's biggest and smartest fans," not "all" or "most" but "many." It makes a huge difference.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
This guy has a point for sure. I've seen it everywhere.
Sometime, before a show or even an episode air .. we're beating it to death!
For instance.. before Enterprise's pilot aired.. we had months and months to kill it.. People said it would suck... that it's shit .. the premise is bad - the ship looked to Akira .. the writing is gonna suck.. The openning credit, for Christ sakes, was gonna suck too... HELL... no one had even seen an ep yet .. and they were thrashing it to bits..
Oh well.. such is things. The one things that the guy as Section 31 didn't mention.. is that no matter how much people complain about it .. they still watch it! And that's what makes Trek successful! I think if some people didn't have something to complain about, they'd stop watching it!
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I also think the guy has a point in that pulling apart every little aspect of Voyager was detrimental - and to me as a Voyager fan it was awful to see it bashed everywhere. This is exactly the reason why I have made up my mind after watching the first two episodes of Enterprise. I still don't like the whole premise, I still think that B&B are not making it for their current fans in the first place. On the other hand, it is not so bad that it wouldn't deserve a chance. I'm trying to be fair to maintain my own credibility, but also to do my part in keeping the fandom united.
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
He's dead right. Half the people that rip things apart probably believe they could do it better. I'd like to see them try. Sure, some technical aspects can be fine tuned 9and all that jazz) but if you're watching ST just to check if there are 10 or 11 phaser strips on a vessel, then you need to sit back and examine your motivations. Or perhaps, just relax a bit Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
Well, I *could* write a full length, five-act "Enterprise" script that will be true to every character, original, and perfectly consistent, and post it here for everyone to see and rip apart. It will be Star Trek, and it will be the best Star Trek you've seen so far. I've written a gadzillion pages on the Defiant already.
However, it's kind of useless. If I don't submit it, everyone will call it fan-fiction and not a freelance script I now need an agent to submit it to the producers, and it's difficult to get an agent without prior credits. It will be read by the writing team and ripped apart to conform to Braga's ideas. I probably won't get invited on the staff, because they invited Ron Moore himself and held story meetings without him. So why bother?
[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
You wanna try writing a full script inside a thread, with everybody contributing?
[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
No. Look at the most popular thread in the "Games" forum. It would be ridiculously silly. A script needs tight focus -- the fewer writers, the better.
I now need an agent to submit it to the producers, and it's difficult to get an agent without prior credits.