Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Here's a puzzler...

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

It's an original John Eaves lithograph being sold by the FanMedia folks who do the Star Trek Communicator.

Is it just me or have the worms found a way to place point charges and blown their way out of the can?

[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]

Posted by Pro. Portside (Member # 390) on :

a NX clas ship of earth(and where else would the bloody thing be from Romuls) registry. Ok me have questions now.

Now dose NX stand for anything and if so what?
If you had an automated survay ship would that be an ASS class ship? Ok end of questions.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

NX-class? I guess it certainly wouldn't be unheard of. From a point earlier in Earth's history, you have the DY-series of space ships. From The Original Series era we have mention of class J cargo ships and class S starships.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I just want them to hurry up and get AMT/Ertl or whoever to make the plastic model kit so I can build it.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

You know, that's not such a bad idea. I've been wanting to try building a starship model again after all of these years. My biggest difficulty back then was getting the saucer to sit on the !@#$ing neck. I wouldn't have any problems here.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I'm with First...I want a model kit...

I guess I wouldn't be opposed to an "NX Class"...although it seems to go against the traditions of Earth Naval organizations, at least the US Navy. From what I know, most naval groups name ships with actual names, not just numbers and the classes are derived from one fo the ships in that class. TOS and the TNG era have all followed this tradition, so I don't think it really fits to have NX Class. I guess I just assumed it was Enterprise Class. I wonder what the plaque on the bridge says...

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Well, as ive noticed before, the producers seem to be trying to establish a more 'space shuttle-ish' atmosphere on the ship. They want us to feel like we are watching an apollo mission or space shuttle crew, so they are foregoing some naval traditions assuming that since Starfleet really doesnt have a fleet yet, they feel more like 'rocket guys' Space shuttles dont have 'SS' or 'USS' prefixes, class names and have a few letter-number combinations for their registries (OV-101, etc)

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Cool. Look good next to my signed drawing of the Enterprise-E by Eaves.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I have no problems with an NX Class, apart from the 23rd/24th century use of the prefix NX. It would assume that every NX rego is of a ship of the NX class.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Well...the obvious answer to that problem is that, when the Federation Starfleet is founded, the new registry system includes an NX registry for new ship types in honor of the "old" NX class.

We definitely have to accept that there is a difference between the Federation Starfleet and registry system and the Earth Starfleet and registry system. I think everyone has pretty much accepted that, I'm just saying...

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

Now let's pray to the starship gods that if they show another Starfleet ship it'll have a nice big registry printed on the side with a new prefix so that NX doesn't devolve into a generic Starfleet indicator just yet.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

right. NX needs to be only for ships made after enterprise. anything already in the Earth fleet should have something else. Though I doubt we'll be seeing many other Starfleet ships just yet. Nothing they have yet will be able to keep up with Enterprise. Unless they run into a ship that's already out there...

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I have a great idea for an episode:
a time-travel episode which involves a ship from the 23rd century (TOS, but not with *the* Enterprise). Would be cool to see the U.S.S. Intrepid (the all-Vulcan crew) and the NX-01 trapped inside some Temporal Anomaly of the Week.

::wakes up::

Wha..What just happened?

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

It would be easy to allow for the fact that the Earth Starfleet has ship registries that start with two random letters and are followed by two random numbers, and the NX is completely unrelated to the NX which will be used to refer to Naval Experiments undertaken by the Federation Starfleet. This would then still allow for the USS Dauntless NCC-01 ten years later, being under a different jurisdiction

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Oh, don't worry...the TOS tie-in will come soon enough......

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Or it could be like real Navy ships which have different prefixes. CV = carrier, CVN = nuclear carrier. DD = destroyer, etc...

Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :

So what would NX be? New eXplorer?

Anyway, NX class actually sounds more logical with DY classes around. And as said before, it can explain the Dauntless name. It can even constitute (I just had to use that word) to Kirk's Enterprise being the first.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

I would prefer NX-01-class. It fits better to the DY-100-class and IIRC it's possible to say CVN-65-class instead of Enterprise-class in the US Navy.

[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Spike ]

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

I understood that the NX Registry means that the ship is Experimental or a Prototype..

The Defiant's Registry, we all know, is NX-74205. SO therefore, the Enterprise, being the first registered deep-space experimental ship, would be NX-01.

Some would argue that the Pheonix should have the registry NX-01 - however, there was no Starfleet then.

So.. What do I think NX stands for?

Naval Experiment, in keeping with Naval Tradition.

[ October 13, 2001: Message edited by: Alshrim Dax ]

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

IN keeping with Hobbs' suggestion, I went into an online search.. and found a really good site for US Registered Ships.

The CV, CVN, etc.. are all Hull Registries in the US Navy.

As shown here...

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/S_TYPE.HTM

How ever...

The USS Enterprise (Aircraft Carrier), is registered as CVN 65!

The C - represents that it is a Carrier.
The N - represents that it is a Nuclear Vessel.

The V - is a mystery. Vessel?

It is in a class of its own - CVN 65.

The other sister ships are all CVN 68 .. but have their own registery numbers...

So.. It would be sticking with Navel Tradition to have the Enterprise NX-01 share its class with its registery number as our own USS Enterprise has done.

Just thought I'd share.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

V is for "aviation." At the time CV1 was built, CA was being used for heavy (or "armored") cruisers.

Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :

CVN is the hull number. CVN-68 is the USS Nimitz. All other ships that are designed to the Nimitz's specifications are called "Nimitz" class. Not CVN-68 class. Though it may be technically allowable, its not the accepted use. CVN-65 is the USS Enterprise. Only the Enterprise is built to those specifications, which is why when it is referred to as belonging to a class, you will here it referred to as "Enterprise" class. Something similar is done with the USS John F. Kennedy.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
All other ships that are designed to the Nimitz's specifications are called "Nimitz" class. Not CVN-68 class

Are you sure? CVN-68 class and similiar designations (eg DD-xx class) are used in some books about the US Navy I read.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

quote:
V is for "aviation." At the time CV1 was built, CA was being used for heavy (or "armored") cruisers.

Hmmn...

I live within driving distance of the Alameda Naval Base (The one visited by Kirk and Co. in STIV) and recently visited to take a tour of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Hornet CV-12, which is moored there as a flaoting museum. (The Hornet is the ship that picked up Neil Armstrong and the Apollo 11 crew after splashdown. It was really cool, I got to walk in his footsteps [painted on the deck] to the isolation/decontamination chamber that they put the astronauts in. [This was before they knew whether there were any dangerous organisms on the moon that could be brought back.] I got to go inside the chamber and put my ear to the phone that Armstrong spoke to President Kennedy on! I missed the engine room tour, [Damn!] but I got to see the med-science lab, the infirmary, the operating room, crewmen's quarters, mess hall, and of course the hangar deck, where they have several WWII and Vietnam/Korean War vintage aircraft. [Very Cool!] And I also got to tour the bridge.)

Anyways, on the bridge tour, the docent said that the 'V' stood for 'heaVier than air' indicating that the vessel was a seagoing ship and not an Airship. He being the docent and all, I took him at his word, but I guess he could've been wrong.

-MMoM

Posted by mrneutron (Member # 524) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
The Hornet is the ship that picked up Neil Armstrong and the Apollo 11 crew ...I got to walk in his footsteps [painted on the deck]...and put my ear to the phone that Armstrong spoke to President Kennedy on!

Neat trick, given that Kenedy died in 1963 and the Hornet picked up the Apollo 11 Command Module in 1969. I believe the president you are looking for is "Nixon".

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

With more reading, OnToMars is absolutely correct... everywhere the CVN68 is considered the Nimitz Class Carrier.

But, i'm still trying to find out what the 'V' is. Seems there is still some confusion.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/1424/entrpris/cvn65.html

This site - tho' not official, says that it is Carrier Vessel Nuclear. I don't know how right this guy is.

But this would seem to stay true that all Millitary sites that I've been to consider the CVN a Nuclear Carrier Vessel ..

Without the N - it is just a strait Carrier Vessel powered by diesel .. etc...

Now.. I've also been to this site: http://www.ucc.ie/cgi-bin/acronym?CV

Which says that the V stands for a Carrier with a Fixed Wing. *Shrugs*

And here - http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=CVN&Find=Find - the acronym is defined as Carrier Vessel Nuclear. However -- I got to this site via the Navy Military site.: http://www.cnet.navy.mil/nascweb/amo/amo_links.htm

So.. I'm thinkin' CVN=Carrier Vessel Nuclear.

But here: http://reserveweb.fitcpac.navy.mil/isrtm/surface.htm

They say that the V stands for "Aircraft" *Shakes head... AHHHHHH!!

So... lots of different definitions.. and still .. not sure which one I should believe.

[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: Alshrim Dax ]

Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :

Monkey, I've taken that tour. Very cool. Took me like five trips out to visit my sister (who lives in SF) to drag her and my mom out there.

But personally, there was something even cooler than walking in the footsteps of Neil Armstrong...

...walking in the footsteps of Pete Conrad.

I'd bet money nobody here knows who he is.

I'm almost positive V simply stands for vessel. How it came to be, I do not know. But they could've put in there just to not have a one letter prefix. Like the designations for battleships are BB instead of just B.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

quote:
Neat trick, given that Kenedy died in 1963 and the Hornet picked up the Apollo 11 Command Module in 1969. I believe the president you are looking for is "Nixon"

Yes, I apologize. I meant Nixon. It was like eleven o'clock when I posted. Maybe I should sleep before recounting my stories...

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

From Alshrim Dax "I understood that the NX Registry means that the ship is Experimental or a Prototype.. The Defiant's Registry, we all know, is NX-74205. SO therefore, the Enterprise, being the first registered deep-space experimental ship, would be NX-01."

NX designates an experimental ship in the

Federation starfleet... we have no idea of how the registry system works in the Earth Starfleet. To get around certain problems, the two systems almost have to be different. As I said before, perhaps the NX designation in new Federation ships is an homage to the "old" Earth registry system of the NX class ships.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

Y'know, a lot of people have been saying that whole Earth Starfleet VS. Federation Starfleet, but the more I think about it, I don't think that TPTB or the writers are really thinking of it that way. It seems more like it's the same Starfleet we've always known, and that they really are trying to imply that the Enterprise is the first Starfleet ship. I know it's ridiculous, but I think that's how they're treating it.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I doubt it. They know full well that there's no Federation. They may be intending this Starfleet to eventually evolve into the Federation Starfleet, but they know the difference. They may do some really dumb stuff sometimes, but they aren't quite that stupid. I hope not, anyway...

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Well.. the registries are still paying homage to 'today's' way of doing things.

With prototypes, even today, an 'X' is used in the registry.

Earth Starfleet | Federation Starfleet. IS still Starfleet and they originate from the same place .. the way they do things will be somewhat the same .. Only difference, the way I see it, is that the Federation includes other worlds that subscribe to a Federation of Planet ..

And we must remember here - the Enterpise is the prototype ship using the Warp 4.5 Engine developed by Archer's old man. It would stand to reason, by today's standards, that this ship uses an 'X' in its registery - and being the first of its kind .. the Register Number and the Class number would be the same. Just like the Enterprise Carrier and the Nimitz. Granted they named CVN68 the Nimitz Class - but the Class Number is still CVN68.

But I agree - that they should call NX-01 the Enterprise Class.

The one thing now.. with all this talk of registery numbers (if you will be patient with me) is that, in today's navy .. the registry number almost describes the ship .. CVN=Carrier Vessel Nuclear, CV=Carrier Vessel, DD=Destroyer, TB=Torpedo Boat, SSK (hunter-killer), SST (training), SC (cruiser), SF (fleet) and SM (minelaying)= All submarine types.. I degress..

So.. if this is the case, then I understood NCC-1701 as being the Naval (Paying homage to Old Earth) Constitution Class 1701 for the USS Enterprise in TOS.

Now.. in TNG .. Should the registry not change to reflect it's new designation - NGC-1701.

The Enterprise of today - had, once, a different Registry number (CV6) .. when it became nuclear, it receive the new registry (CVN65).

And all the other ships in the Federation .. their registries started with NCC.

So.. What did NCC stand for in the Ship's Registries?

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Alshrim Dax ]

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

The very first explanation (from Jefferies TOS pre-production sketches) of NCC-1701 is as follows (This is all succeeded by a big IIRC):
NCC stands for nothing in particular: NC comes from the aircraft licensing code of the US, and the extra C was added 'for fun' (and the similariyties to the Soviet aircraft number CC)

The 1701 also originated from Jefferies plane, but he also gave a possible explanation: "17" stands for the 17th class of cruisers, with "01" meaning the first ship of that clas. I assume prototypes are numbered "00", except in the case of the NX-01, because NX-00 is a pretty stupid registry number.

While this theory makes little sense in the later 23rd and 24th centuries, it could have been something dating back to the Earth Starfleet.

What would other Earth ships that we might see in ENT be numbered, I wonder. I hope we'll never see the NCC prefix..

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Well, the Federation starfleet obviously doesnt use a different prefix for each vessel type.. all independantly operated ships with interstellar capacity have 'NCC' as their prefix, from the smallest one-man warp scouts and runabouts all the way up to the monster Galaxies and Sovereigns.

So I doubt it stands for 'constitution class'.. the best theory we have running is that it is 'Naval Construction Contract,' meaning that all vessels built by starfleet that have independant warp capacity are numbered as they are built, semi-sequentially (depending on construction time and production & design holdups). This system would best start in 2161 with a ship that is NCC-01 or if it was a prototype, NX-01. I think it would really mess things up at this point if Enterprise turned out to be that ship. I hope that, even though they are taking a lashing at the other continuity issues, Braga and Berman and the rest of the staff find it in their hearts to clear this up in a way that makes us happy.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I really doubt there is such a thing as "the first ship of the Federation".
It is much more likely that with the formation of the UFP Starfleet, all (or a lot) of ships of the founding members were re-numbered and put into Starfleet service. (Imagine something like the fictional DY-521 being renumbered to NCC-121 and repainted into early SF colours).

And I also think it is unlikely that the NX-01 (still a prototype), will last for 10/11 years, and be put into active UFP-SF service.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Thats why i assume that NCC-01 would have been just a ship that perhaps used to be NAR-B2012 and not a prototype NX-01.

Unless they really wanted to be spiffy for the press and have a 'woo-hoo look our first ship', NCC-01 on through would probably all be smaller repainted support vessels and the like and not big capital ships until the Fleet got more on its feet as a cohesive entity. The middle ground would be to take a small distinguished pre-existing vessel (perhaps the UES Dauntless NAR-903-K) and make it NCC-01, that way its a respectably named ship.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

I think it was Peregrinus who mentioned that Jefferies' intention was, that NCC was just for cruisers. But Franz Joseph used NCC for destroyers, dreadnaughts, etc. in his Starfleet Technical Manual and because of that, NCC was used for every Starfleet ship in TNG.

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

My point before was - that I had assumed at one time that "NCC" stood for Naval Constitution Class..

I determined a long time ago - that it didn't.

So - if NCC was just a "Whatever"!! Then could it be that NX-01 is just a "Whatever" too?

I hope not!

And it could be, that as rediculous as it would look.. NX-00 could be the Pheonix. Is there any Canon/Non-Canon even of a registry on the Pheonix?

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Alshrim Dax ]

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

I doubt the Phoenix had a reg... it wasnt built under the auspices of any government and there didnt seem to be much in the way of air traffic regulation after WWIII, seeing as the 1701E, Borg Sphere and Phoenix sailed around without even raising an eybrow of many governmental agencies or traffic controls. The Phoenix is the only one that should have been seen at the time, and i dont think there was much of anything said about how it popped up into the atmosphere without getting the attention of friendly or remaining enemy governments.