Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Novan language ($$$?)

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Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I listened to it quite a few times, but I didn't get all the words of the Novan language (which is BTW quite similar to what we heard in "Nemesis"). In particular, I'm trying to figure out what the frequently used word for liar is that sounds like "shale". Any ideas?

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Uh, shale.

And it wasn't a word for liars, but for lies, if I recall correctly.

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Sol System ]

Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

Actually .. I'm not entirely sure that "Shale" meant "Liar"; more like... "Lie".

For instance, when the Novan said he did not believe what Archer was telling hime, he would say,

"Shale .. it is all Shale!"

Which would indicate that "shale" (spelling circumspect) would be a offshoot of "lie".

My next question would be... Why change some of their language at all .. unless the colonists were non-North American. There english was near perfect, if not perfect. Why have different words for anything!?

English has survived for over a thousand years! Why would their English change in 70?

So.. i'm wondering if their 'words' were derived from another language .. or was it just the writters 'makin' shit up, and throwing words in there to make the Novans sound more alien than they were...

Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

Darn it .. Sol go in there before me !

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Well, go back to England in 1001 and see how much of a conversation you can have with the people you meet.

English in 1001, or thereabouts:

Sw� begnornodon G�ata l�ode
hl�fordes hryre, heorth-gen�atas;
cw�don th�t h� w�re wyruld-cyninga,
manna mildust ond mon-thw�rust,
l�dum l�thost ond lof-geornost.

Also, none of the words the Novans used were made up, so I'm not quite sure I see what you mean. Shale is a type of rock. Sedimentary, I believe. It can be quite crumbly, which is presumably how the Novans came to associate it with lies and false things in general.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

I think that it was the writers trying to be cute.. they lived underground, in the rocks

Shale is a type of rock.

Being rock dwellers, they were assumed to have come up with idioms dealing with rocks, in addition to the fact that apparently the majority of the first generation of rock dwellers were children, with incomplete vocabularies and no records of the english language to study. They made a language out of the words they knew.. apparently they didnt know 'ancestors' so they said 'go-befores' those who went before them.

I was wtching it (for the first time last night on tape, i havent gotten around to it all week) and originally i thought it was kind of odd that the entire English language could be forgotten in 2 generations, when i realized two things
1) The colonists were children when they moved underground, without a full education.
2) There are people I work with that i cant understand what they are saying.. i found out what 'bling-bling' means the other day. Its all a matter of experience

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

Oh yes, shale would be (to) lie. I remember they had a word for liar too, once or twice (shaler?).

I too think that they made up several words, after all they have forgotten even more important things than their language, for instance where they came from. And considering that Germans who have been living in America for twenty years or so, have only a faint knowledge of their mother language, it's only plausible that even if the first generation's English was good, it may have taken a strange direction without having many references and many people to talk to.

But there is no similar sounding word than "shale" that could mean something remotely related to "lie"?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Not that I can think of offhand. When I watched it, I made the same obvious assumption that they were referring to the rock.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

It might confuse people that we refer to lies as 'bullshit'?

What correlation is there between cattle excrement and a falsehood? We dont like bullshit.. they found, in their time in the tunnels, that they didnt like shale.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

But, errr, the kids didn't know the word 'lie', but they did know the name of a sedimentary rock type?

Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

LOL .. Good point Harry ...

But still a neat play on words .. I did not know that Shale was a rock ..

"I'm a Network Administrator, Jim; not a damn geologist!"

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

They're diggers. Of COURSE they'll think in terms of rocks. DER.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

No, diggers are space armadillos. :-)

No-one ever said that the word "lie" wasn't in their vocabulary. But apparently "shale" had become more common.