Flare Sci-Fi Forums: $$$ Breaking the Ice $$$ Thoughts!

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Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

Well .. the ep played here a day early. I don't get the A-Channel and it kinda thru me for a loop when I flicked to my channel 15 to see the openning credits going. So I watched it.

Again .. Archer is like a little kid as he finds that he's following the biggest comet any human has ever seen. I know they want him to be gung-ho .. but sheesh ... it's like Mayweather has seen more than him. But anyways...

I liked this episode .. T'Pol is finally becoming part of the crew .. and the exchanges between Tucker and T'Pol were great... I like seeing that kind of intimacy (no ..not in that way)! But it is still paralleled by the relationship between the Doc and Seven... but it's a start.

They let Reed blow some more stuff up .. Gotta love that guy... and I especially found the scene where they are contacting children back home humorous...

"I'm a space-explorer, Jim, not a teacher!!"

Everyone was uncomfortable .. and I found it funny..

as I said.. I really enjoyed the ep..

Thoughts?

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

You're not gonna get any from me untill 9:00 PM tonight. That is when Enterprise ends for me.

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

I think its great. Not much happened, but it wasn't boring, and every moment was very nice.

My favorite moment was when finally the mystery of the existance of the toilets got answered by "expert" Trip.

Other good scenes were the vulcan ship,
dinner with the vulcan captain, snowman on the comet, blowing up the vulcan snowman, and T'pols story was enjoyable though predicatable.

As a tech nut, i have to say the color scheme of the vulcan ships seems to be dark orange, or at least for this era, and they must be years and years ahead of the Enterprise.
Which is good, no sense everyone in this time frame are as backwards as the humans.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I could go on and on about The FOrce's grammar, but I won't.

It was a nice episode ... some light moments ... the end sequence reminded me a bit *too* much of "Deep Impact", Paramount's '98 "Armageddon" copy.

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

much good. grammar nazis piss I off.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Grammar Nazi? No, I'm just a general asshole.

Mind you, I just like seeing paragraphs, and sentences, and correct punctuation ... hell, I forget what an "adverb" is ... I just like being able to *read* a post without my mind spinning like crazy.

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

Why, thank you Jeff.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Hmmm. First word capped ... my name capped ... strategic use of a comma ... even a period at the end! He's making progress!

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

Thanks for the approval Jeff.

Its great to know somebody cares and according to him, i'm moving on up in the world. Yay for me

Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :

*chews through duranium/tritanium alloy hull plating*

They...they switch Enterprise with Temptation Island! That's so sick!! AAAARRRGGHHH!

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

quote:
Originally posted by David Templar:
*chews through duranium/tritanium alloy hull plating*
They...they switch Enterprise with Temptation Island! That's so sick!! AAAARRRGGHHH!

Hahaha.
Sorry i feel you.
Well maybe you can enjoy that Special Unit 2 show afterwards.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

*FAILURE!*

You failed to capitalize *I'm*.

Then you failed to capitalize *I*!

SMACK-DOWN!

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Ouch. Nothing is worse than watching a bunch of whores f**king each other and ruining each other's lives day and night just after meeting when you are expecting to see a new Vulcan ship.

Speaking of which, what the hell was with the design? I only got a few glances at it, but the design was very un-Vulcan.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

Well there's also that absent period following "yay for me"

Bwahahahahaha
Take that ya grammer nazi

Btw, was the Vulcans really spying on the Enterprise?
There should have been some mention of last episodes events.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

I didn't really get a good look at the Vulcan ship eigther. At least the ship was orange, i don't know whether thats good ot not.

Did the ring spin? Where was that tractor beam coming out of? Where was the engines?

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

F0rce! At this point you are making all these typing errors on purpose, aren't you?! You're doing it just to piss Jeff off aren't you?!

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

Who me? Nooooooooo

I want to get a gold star on my grammar report
honest

Oopse, "honest" isn't capitalized, there goes that star.

hehehehehe

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

*Sticks The FOrce on Veer's Counter-Strike team*

Taste shotgun, bitch.

*KA-BOOM!*
*KA-BOOM!*

"Counter-Terrorists Win"

(DEAD)Veers: "Doh!"

(DEAD)The FOrce: "that was suki suky"

Malnurtured Snay: "Shotty rules!"

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

How does the design not look Vulcan? That's the one thing everyone has been happy about: it does looks Vulcan. It's based on the Apollo-class (T'Pau-type for those in denial) from "Unification".

And the ring is the engine.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

hmmmmmm. I'm gonna have to get another look at it. In all honesty, I got a few glances, but those lasted about a second. But now I can watch this episode on tape and pause it! MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*gets a boot to the head by Galvetron*

Galvetron: Damn it! I told you! That is my catch phrase!

Me: sorry. *mutters under his breath* What an ass.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Warp engine, anyway. There's a bright glowing bar on the back that's presumably their impulse drive.

I'm curious as to where the ring was attached.

Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

I thought the vulcan ship looked cool; however, very Babylon 5.

It kills me, too, that the vulcan warp drive, invented by a human, is classified to the humans !!

It was a wonder earth never went to war with them... oh ya... that's right; they were enlightened!

BTW.. How was my grammar?

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

No grammar nits. You didn't even spell it like the Frasier actor's last name, which is what most Grammar Cops do sooner or later (Orion's Law, I believe it's called).

It seems pretty certain, though, that the Vulcan warp drive was not invented by humans. Back in DS9 "Little Green Men", Quark gloated over the chance to see the secret of warp to the cultures of the past. He claimed that, thanks to the time-travel capability he had just gained, he could sell the tech to the past Ferengi so that they could have it "before the humans, the Klingons, even the Vulcans".

While this does not specify a date for the invention of warp by these respective races, it does make it sound as if each of them got the drive at a different time. It may be that the Vulcans invented it first, then the Klingons stole it from them, and then Cochrane invented the human version. Or perhaps all of them really stole it from somebody else, save for Cochrane. Or it may be that we can't get such accurate information out of Quark's words at all. But we *can* claim that these four races (Ferengi, Klingon, human, Vulcan) got the warp drive at different times. That is, if we trust Quark.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

"...the vulcan warp drive, invented by a human..."

You've got to be joking...

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

quote:
It's based on the Apollo-class (T'Pau-type for those in denial) from "Unification".

I don't care what the Encyclopedia says...that ship we saw in Unification was NOT an Apollo class ship. The Gage model built for Emissary was an Apollo class ship.

And before Mighty Monkey of Mim starts his whining, yes I know that since the footage wasn't shown, it's not canon. But it was intended to be shown, and that's good enough for me.

Man, I wish someone had Rob Legato's email address...

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

Posted by Seven Of Nine (Member # 633) on :

This episode wasn't one of the best, but it was almost perfect, the captian could've stopped pausing after every sentence or so, when he was making a "voice" message to the children. the translator talked more smoothly

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

I'd love to see the Gage model.

I've also heard that Bernd gave 'The Andorian Incedent' a 1 out of 10! WTF?!?!? UP YOURS BERND!!!! THE ANDORIAN INCEDENT ROCKED AND YOU KNOW IT!

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

MIB did you get lost? were talking about the new episode now.

Vulcans probably invented Vulcan warp drive.

Which, Quark's nebulous and unsatisfying conversational reference to Vulcan warp drive notwithstanding, we still know they had first.

In First Contact, Zefram Cochrane used Human warp drive for the first time. It caught the Vulcans attention, and they warped over to see that we had warp. How did they warp over? With their PRE EXISTING VULCAN WARP DRIVE.

sheesh.

Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

OOoookk... I was always my understanding that Cochrane discovered and invented the Warp drive and shared the technology freely.

Of course I could be mistakenly taking the book FEDERATIONS at its word... But it was my understanding that the Vulcans didn't have warp technology at first contact.

*shrug* Somebody set me straight!

Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :

Actually, in the book, it states that Zefram Cochrane shared the technology with the vulcans. It also clearly states that the vulcans already had warp-drive, but was so impressed with his intentions that they continued the relations with humankind.

Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :

which brings me to my original point ... Zephram share his technology with THEM.. but THEY won't share theirs with the Humans ...

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

We didnt share anything with them. We let them observe that we had it, and developed diplomatic relations.

Us sharing warp drive with them would be like sharing a sandwich with someone who had a huge plate of thanksgiving dinner infront of them. They already have food and they have better food. They wouldnt need to bother with ours.

And even though i disagree with the way the Vulcans act and their control freak methods, i give them credit for not handing advanced warp drives to every race on the block. Thats the Prime Directive, and it makes sense.

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

The Vulcans had to have had their own drive, or they wouldn't have gotten out of their own star system.

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

Well, the Romulans did got out of the Vulcan system when they supposedly didn't have warp,
or they had it then lost it.

[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Or they just had it all along, which is what almost all canon evidence suggests.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

It does seem that some of Cochrane's ideas were an improvement over Vulcan ones, at least in the end. Starfleet ships, presumably designed by the brightest engineers from a hundred planets, are based on his dual-nacelle design.

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

The ring ship makes perfect sense to me. As Sol suggested, it may be a "dead end" of starship design. We don't know what materials Vulcans use and what sort of plasma. With their technology the ring design may have the best performance, but Cochrane may have had a better idea feasible with typical Earth technology.

The only thing I don't like about the ship at all is that that the ring is apparently attached to the hull only at one point. Even if the SIF is mainly keeping the ship in one piece, there are *huge* lever forces at the slightest movement which could be reduced a lot by just adding a few small struts (like in a bike wheel). The way it is, the design is anything but logical (even if it is meant as a homage to the SS Enterprise).

MIB: I should answer the question why I hated TAI in another thread...

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

If the ship is in any way related to the Sternbach thing in that TMP picture, we might postulate that the technology in fact necessitates as little contact with the wheel as possible. And not only in the terms of contact surface, but in terms of number of contact points. Perhaps the inner surface has to be kept free of contacts, the longer free stretch, the better, plus there has to be free visibility forward and aft from that surface? The Sternbach design makes no mechanical sense, either, but it and the T'Pau model seem to meet these critera.

Dunno. The basic criterium is met anyway: the ship looks cool.

Now, what kind of variation could we have here? Just different hull shapes within the hoop? Two or more hoops parallel or in series? Are hull components outside the hoop forbidden? There seems to be both more and less choice here than with the nacelle-based designs.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Timo:
Now, what kind of variation could we have here? Just different hull shapes within the hoop? Two or more hoops parallel or in series? Are hull components outside the hoop forbidden? There seems to be both more and less choice here than with the nacelle-based designs.

Every time I've seen the "Hoopship Enterprise" there's been a gap in the ring inidcating that it was actually two in tandem. Indeed, I believe the schematic Jim Stevenson had reflected this.

Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :

If the Vulcans did not have warp drive, then how could they know what a warp signature is and detect it?

I'm still not sure how the ring-warp system works, any ideas?

Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :

Perhaps the ring is a different form of generating the warp field. Instead of nacelles and coils, the rings themselves act in place of the coils when they are energized by plasma and a symmetric warp field is created.

The problem comes in with maneuvering. With only two field producing elements in the ship's propulsion, the resultant warp fields are less adjustable. Assuming that subspace fields are responsible for sublight and FTL maneuvering, this tranlates into significant maneuverability limitations across the board.

Though hoop ships may be simpler systems (and thus, more desirable), the performance differance is just too great.

A supplementary reason might be that a hoop design limits design possibilities. Where you could theoretically slap two (or more, or less) nacelles on pretty much anything, a hoop ship would require a more integrated design which might not allow the options of a naccelle system.

And an airplane analogy just hit me: consider the relationship between rings and nacelles to be analogous between propeller and jet engines. Propellers/Rings are less efficient but simpler. Where as Jets/Nacelles are more efficient but more complicated. When the technology progressed to the point where Jets/Nacelles were reliable enough to be used, they became the standard.

[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: OnToMars ]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I would think it would work just like any other warp system. It's just that the warp coils are arranged in that big ring, rather than in nacelles.

Posted by J (Member # 608) on :

I'm with TSN on this one. It just looks like another version of warp drive. Like the Cardassian Imbedded version. If you're looking for advantages/disadvantages, you probably won't be able to find any with the information we currently have. There is nothing inheritly better about ring designs... Vulcan ships are faster than Earth ships, that's a given. This vessel just happens to be faster and in the design of a ringed warp drive.