Well, well, well... I really dunno about this. While I also preferred and hoped that The Calling's "Wherever You Will Go" would be the theme song, I never hated what we ended up with. I liked it, and it's grown on me. Am I still in the percieved minority here?
In any case, one wonders if a song change is totally necessary. I guess it'd be a nice change, and I totally support updating the opening sequence - unlike Voyager's dull and static titles. I guess we'll be looking forward to next Tuesday for one more reason now...
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I kinda liked the old theme song too; it was a nice change from those ponderous instrumentals. However I'll reserve judgment about the new piece until I hear it. I won't hold out any hope of it being as distinctive as the alien chorus on Farscape or the weird thumping tune that Andromeda featured at one point.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, I wasn't thrilled with "Faith of the Heart" when ENT premiered, but it's a pretty good song, and very appropriate for the series. ...At least, for the first version of the series. I definitely like listening to it. (By comparison, I rarely sit through taped reruns of TNG or TOS without fast-forwarding. So I definitely enjoy it now.)
If they're gonna do vocals and pop-style music for Trek, I think that an award-winning opera singer was certainly a good decision, rather than some random rock band that no one's ever heard of before... *sigh*
And I can't help but think of the last time they came up with a "more energetic" version of a Trek opening theme -- and the revised DS9 music totally ruined the grandeur of the original version.
I'm not looking forward to seeing "Faith of the Heart" replaced, but I'm not going to complain before I know what's being put in its place, either.
Posted by Brian Whisenhunt (Member # 1095) on :
I actually LIKE the instrumentals. I remember at first I didn't like the theme of TMP, I wanted the original Courage work to be there much like what they did in TWOK. I would like them to do a more Trek-ditional theme......
of course..... I also thought changing "And the rest" to "The Professor and Mary Ann" was a BAD thing Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Anything associated with Gilligan's Island is a bad thing.
I reserve judgement on the new song until I hear it. Which I won't, because I don't watch Enterprise. Someone tell me if it turns into GOOD sci-fi, please.
And the theme from DS9 wasn't ruined. It went from being a theme that fit an empty, middle-of-nowhere station to a theme that fit a full, busy, middle-of-everything station. They both work for the show they were attached to.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I didn't say that the new version of the DS9 theme wasn't fitting. I just said that it ruined the original version. I didn't hate it, but it lost all of its flavor and grandeur.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
You mean it's plodding-ness. Well, that had more to do with the visuals than the song, I guess.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"Someone tell me if it turns into GOOD sci-fi, please."
Don't get your hopes up.
"but it lost all of its flavor and grandeur"
Pfff. The original theme had all the grandeur of a sleeping pill.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The best tracks on any of the Star Trek soundtracks so far have been "Passage Terminated" from "Emissary" and the Borg vocals from the very end of BoBW. Just my opinion of course, but I love both of those.
I like "Faith of the Heart" and think it went well. What I don't understand is how fans can be against injecting pop music into Star Trek but still want "Wherever You Will Go" as a theme song...
And as has already been said, I'll reserve judgement until I hear it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Borg vocals? MP3 please. I don't remember if I was ever against the concept of rock/pop music for the credits, I think I just always felt the actual song they chose was a bit lame. . . I haven't decided whether the credit visuals are more boring for (pre-revamp) DS9 or Enterprise.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The original DS9 titles weren't plodding. They were lonely, which is exactly what they were suppossed to be. The tune was great too.
For the revamp, eh, I liked the new titles, but the updated tune didn't really work. That stupid elecronic bass beat ruined it for me. I was hoping that they'd use the special syphonic arrangement McCarthy once arranged and recorded. THAT was a greaat version of the theme.
And as for Enterprise, "Faith of the Heart" has grown on me, and I really like the titles. I would hesitantly say that they even slightly...inspire me. To do what, I dunno, but there you go.
The article doesn't give any impression they'd change it for "Wherever you will go" though, it merely states that some fans wish they'd have gone with that tune a couple of years ago. And while I like the tune, it seems even less fitting, stylistically, than "Faith of the Heart". Punky-rock/pop combo? Simon would explode.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
As long as it isn't some overblown opera composition, I don't really care what they go with.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
i had actually started to appreciate the ENT titles after the initial uproar, im a little sad it would change
that said, i think this is a great opportunity for them to put in a modern and enjoyable composition.. maybe something not so poppish and more spaceish.. i wish i knew more of thatband they contracted
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
By Borg vocals, I meant the kind of gregorian chant singing when they first see the borg cube in screen. It's right before it cuts to commercial, IIRC, and they never do it again, but it's so cool.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, that one. Best bit of Trek incidental music ever.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Best theme, IMHO, is the TMP one (Director's Edition, but I think it's the same as the original one?). Just watching an almost blank screen, apart from a faint starfield whizzing by, and hearing that symphony over your surround system is just.. wow.
Another good moment was "The Siege of AR-588", with Vic Fontaine and silent, slow-motion battle. Very nice touch.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, apparently unlike everyone else, I still dislike "Faith of the Heart" as much as I did when they introduced it.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think Enterprise has the best title sequence (visually) yet. Voyager's is maybe second best. Which is, you know, kind of odd, all things considered. But Voyager was just more of the same, really, only improved. That is, in the sense that TOS had titles which were the Enterprise flying past. And then, a crazy technological leap 25 years later: The Enterprise flying past things! Voyager simply added neater things.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I'm in the camp that's never liked "Faith of the Heart", or indeed any vocals for Trek. I'm still glad Gene decided against actual lyrics for TOS.
That said, a title theme doesn't need vocals to be compelling enough to listen to every time. I have watched and re-watched the entire series of Babylon 5 many times, and have yet to fast-forward through the main titles. Same goes for Dune (the movie, not the gawdawful miniseries). I can't even imagine fast-forwarding through the opening titles of Star Wars.
The TOS theme isn't anything special, but it's short enough that I don't feel I have to zip through it. Every other series has been the victim of my fast forward button on every reviewing. And about half the movies. The opening titles I like best are the ones from James Horner and Clif Eidelman. The rest I just skip through. Well, sometimes I sit through the one from Generations, but not often.
The one thing that would save Enterprise's title theme is for it to not sound like every other TV show.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Except maybe for the first season of B5 credits, I think all the B5 credits beat the Trek series credits hands down... the movies however might be intermixed there.
I never liked Faith of the Heart, but the Calling was excellent--- I was disappointed with that one.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
I dunno how many of you saw TMP when it first came out, but I recall being blown away by the when I saw the film opening weekend in 1979, roaring at me in then-high-tech Dolby Stereo. I actaully found myself humming it when I left the theater.
I never liked the TNG arrangement of it, tho. Bleh.
As to "Faith of the Heart", it never bothered me.
As to the DS9 theme, in it's original form you could play it over the titles for a western and it would seem right at home. I think that was intentional...a fort out on the frontier.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
B5 always had a killer opener and voiceover. It grabbed you right away.
Voyager's opener was really powerful, but I'm surprised they never changed it over the years. You'd think that with the ship continually moving, it would be the perfect opportunity to do something somewhat fresh with the opener every season or every other season. Lord knows they never did anything fresh with the show itself.
I always liked Faith of the Heart, too, and I think it went well with the more "closer to home" kind of modern feeling they were trying to give the show. The visuals are good and it really does capture the premise of the show.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Trek never had a house composer of Franke's caliber, IMO. With the exception of Chattaway's score for Call to Arms and Jones' Best Of Both Worlds piece, most of TNG/DS9/VOY's music was pretty forgettable. By contrast, the themes from Chrysalis and Sleeping in Light never fail to send a chill down my spine...
[ September 05, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: Trek never had a house composer of Franke's caliber, IMO. With the exception of Chattaway's score for Call to Arms and Jones' Best Of Both Worlds piece, most of TNG/DS9/VOY's music was pretty forgettable. By contrast, the themes from Chrysalis and Sleeping in Light never fail to send a chill down my spine...
That's gotta be partly the decision of the higher-ups that they didn't want dramatic music in the show. See this Trek Music page interview with Ron Jones, question #12. A salient quote: "After I was assassinated I noticed that the scores sounded less melodic and more pad-like. Ricky Berman always considered music an intrusion, a necessary evil."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Yup. Jones was fired shortly after his "out of the ordinary" BOBW scores.
And if you listen to Chattaway's first score, for "Tin Man", it is surprisingly melodic, with themes and everything. It has a lovely flute piece for Tin Man itself, and some great brassy stuff for when the first Romulan ship appears.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Swell... I've known for a long time that Berman is probably the worst thing to ever happen to Trek, and this just adds more fuel.
--Jonah
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
No message here, it seems.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I've known for a long time that Berman is probably the worst thing to ever happen to Trek, and this just adds more fuel."
So you're saying that changing the theme is a bad decision. Which means you think he made a good decision when he picked it in the first place. So, obviously, you don't completely disagree with him.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I was actually referring to his entire "music is a necessary evil" philosophy. I wonder how much better the last few movies would have been if the productions had been headed by someone who appreciated film scores for what they contribute, and knew how to recognize good from bad...
--Jonah
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Er, it's pretty obvious that his TV music philosophy doesn't apply to the movies, considering how extremely thematic they've been. Even Generations.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Generations had very little scoring. First Contact and Insurrection I wasn't terribly impressed by, but then I'm not a big fan of Goldsmith (GASP!). I love his TMP/TNG theme, and his Klingon theme, but think they've been overused as thematic elements. And I've not yet been able to sit all the way through Nemesis, and have been too distracted by the abysmal story to notice the score.
That said, most of latter TNG, DS9, and VOY had as forgettable a collective score as Generations. To be perfectly honest, I can't remember any of the music from Generations beyond the opening title theme. I think that says something...
--Jonah
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The extremely cool Mahler-inspired Nexus music, maybe?
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Well, to me, in Generations it was the last time we heard a truly triumphant main theme... well, not the actual opening theme, but its expanded version. By 'triumphant' I mean something like TNG theme, with Enterprise soaring through the screen.
In First Contact and Insurrection main theme was very calm, and Nemesis score was downright depressing. It's not what I expect from Star Trek movies. I want "optimism, captain!"
Back to the original thread, I liked "Faith of the Heart". I actually remember lyrics now Changing the theme will mean that shuttle Enterprise (along with the cast of TOS thats supposed to be in this particular shot) will be gone, further decreasing "trekness factor" of Enterprise Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Characters of TOS? Huh?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The scene when the Space Shuttle Enterprise is rolled out.
So - I've just started at the end of this thread - are they getting rid of the original opening!?!
Bah! I've now grown to like it. Silly little men thinking that retooling the show superficially will make up for their lack of spotting good stories.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
best image i could find, thats the cast at the rollout, shown with the angle that is in the ENT credits.
i's sure i'd be able to see the leisure suits like beacons ..
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
About DS9: I liked both versions of the titles. Actually I don't know which one I prefer. I am currently in the process of watching all DS9 espisodes in the correct order on DVD, and have rarely fastforwarded the titles.
However I really hate "Faith of the heart" - as Enterprise theme song or otherwise. Just not my kind of music. If it has to be that cheesy, then rather have Aerosmith do some kind of song like "I don't wanna miss a thing" (The "rock" version of course).
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Didn't we already sorta agree that this isn't the real shuttle Enterprise, but a retouch of one of the flightworthy orbiters? And that this isn't a big roll-out scene anyway, but rather some mundane towing out of an OPF?
If they went to that much trouble, then I'm sure they did insert the TOS cast, too. I can *almost* recognize the neck of George Takei on that helmet-and-coverall guy third from the right. Or is it the fourth? And Nichelle Nichols is looking from the orbiter window. Or mooning us. Hard to tell since they went overboard with all that obviously fake "glare".
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Didn't we already sorta agree
I AGREED NOTHING !! Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's still faith of the heart. I think the only difference is that there is an electric guitar, bass guitar, and some type of drums dubbed on top of the original track. Better, but The Calling could beat it.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Agreed added instrumentation...so much so the distinctive "whoosh" at the end when it goes to warp is less distinguishable...
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
It's horrible. They ruined it! I liked the old version of "Faith of the Heart," but now because of complaining fanboys, it's been changed. To this! Aaahhh!
Well, at least I still have the first episode of "Enterprise" on tape, so if I want to hear the original theme again, I can just watch it there.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
$ $ $
Rumour has it that the whole title sequence will be changed in one of the next episodes.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Reaching back ever so slightly in the thread, I was shocked to learn that it was Chattaway that had done "Tin Man". I first started paying attention to him in the later seasons of TNG.
That is when he had started making sure that the orchestra would never ever shut the f^ck up for a single moment. The instruments were always chatting away with one another (if you'll pardon the all too correct pun), no matter what.
Important dialogue? "Shit, play it loud." A quiet, somber moment? "Shit, play it loud. And make it suspenseful!" Action scene? "W00t! Orgy-stra!"
I hate Jay Chattaway.
But he was cool on Tin Man. And Inner Light. But that's probably it. Bastard. They'd have done better to re-cut TOS music.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Well... I think the new instruments don't exactly follow the flow of existing music (especially in the middle of the song), but I must say I rather like overall effect Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Can't say the new arrangement improves anything - I prefer the original. It waddn't byoke!
Mark
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Can anyone think of any reason why they had to "enhance" the theme like that? Anyone who always hated the pure guitar&violin version of the song will not like the DJ Bear-Man remix either. And the new over-performed theme will definitely not grow on anyone who always liked the old version. Who do they think we are? The kiddies who hear uninspiring remixes originally from the eighties and think they are all new and cool?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
There were reports that during the press preview of the episode, there was no intro at all. There are also hints on UPN sites and in the promos that the title is now officially becoming STAR TREK ENTERPRISE (no ':'). And of course there's the rumour that Woven has been involved in making a new theme.
My guess is that the real new intro wasn't finished on time, and that this is only a rather hastily remix of the original, soon to be replaced by an all new STAR TREK ENTERPRISE intro.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
every s3 promo to date has said 'star trek enterprise' and its been included into the graphic logo.. we can be pretty sure thats what the official name is now (we'll see tonight...)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The new theme sounds like 80's porn music. The original vrsion was hopeful and sober but the new version sounds like it's played on a Casio keyboard for some office party. Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I have been told that the title sequence is visually the same and the title is still "Enterprise".
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"we'll see tonight..."
Well, actually, we saw last night. And, as everyone's already mentioned, it still just says "ENTERPRISE".
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I didn't really pay attention to the visuals... but if memory serves it's the same. However, I will say that I feel that the beginning part with the ancient map seemed a little longer, but why nit pick that... sooner or later someone will be crazy enough to review both and time the sequence.
Posted by Kosa (Member # 650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: The new theme sounds like 80's porn music. The original vrsion was hopeful and sober but the new version sounds like it's played on a Casio keyboard for some office party.
I couldn�t have heard a better description. I just downloaded it and the first thing that entered my head upon hearing it was, "They payed someone to do that?" Hell I could have hired something like Beat Mania and done that for a fraction of the cost. Heres a thought has anyone heard if Berman or Braga has been expressing any newfound interest in the music industry? Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
I didnt like the theme either, but really, does it matter that much? The premiere kicked all kinds of ass, as long as the show is quality I really wouldnt care if the theme was done by the Backstreet Boys.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Most people know how I feel about the show... but just to pass along what I've seen so far in other circles online and offline.
It was good TV, but lacked season premire-ness... it's value as a Trek ep is mixed.
Back to me, I believe Enterprise has no value as a Trek series so this episode fits in with that. But, if you want something constructive. I would have dropped the A plot completely, it sucked for a season premire-- this should have been a great second episode. The B plot with Trip was good and should keep going throughout the season [until he meets a young Xindi female soldier who he is about to kill with his bare hands then has a flash back to his sister and spares the Xindi?]. Anyway, the A Plot that I would have gone with would involve getting past a Xindi security net [the Xindi set this up because they knew Earth would retaliate]. It would be a few lightyears on the other side of the nebula from the season ender. I would have then put the crew to work finding a planet/moon/asteroid which would have a Xindi base controlling the security net [did I mention this net would be the reason for the crazy Vulcans and the anatomically inverted Klingons?]. Perfect time for the MACOs.
But the episode we got? The ship happens by a freighter that happens to know of a mine which happens to have a Xindi miner? The first fight in the season isn't with the Xindi but with some unknown never-to-be-seen again idiots? It was lame.
Gee this is a good post, and I just realized that it isn't with the thread's title, but it is in reply to what Proteus said so here goes.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by J: ...the anatomically inverted Klingons...
Buh?
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Sovol.. season ender... anatomically inverted Klingons... do you have a long term memory problem?
anatomically inverted means their insides were outside and their outsides were inside... and he said they were alive [at least for a time].
Posted by Middy Seafort (Member # 951) on :
The new, hipper version of "Faith of the Heart" falls flat.
I much prefer "Archer's theme," played at the end of the credits, to the newer version of "Faith."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by J: Sovol.. season ender... anatomically inverted Klingons... do you have a long term memory problem?
No. I just failed to remember a plot point from an episode I've seen once, and once only. I do apologise.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
apologize
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That's another one.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Didn't we already sorta agree that this isn't the real shuttle Enterprise, but a retouch of one of the flightworthy orbiters? And that this isn't a big roll-out scene anyway, but rather some mundane towing out of an OPF?
If they went to that much trouble, then I'm sure they did insert the TOS cast, too. I can *almost* recognize the neck of George Takei on that helmet-and-coverall guy third from the right. Or is it the fourth? And Nichelle Nichols is looking from the orbiter window. Or mooning us. Hard to tell since they went overboard with all that obviously fake "glare".
Timo Saloniemi
Surely you jest...
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
COMPROMISZE NOTHING!! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Kelley's trousers are fantastic.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I think that's not the rollout of the Enterprise with the TOS crew. While it may be the Enterprise, that certainly is not the TOS crew next to it. (BTW, I'm talking about the shot used in the credits). When the original rollout occured, the name was painted in the cargo bay doors. In the clip from the credits, you'll notice that the name is printed on the cockpit instead (as in all the other shuttles). The Enterprise was eventually altered a little in the 1980s to look more like her space-worthy sisters. One of these alteration included the repainting of the name on the cockpit instead of on the bay doors. That clip is probably of the Enterprise being rolled out after her alteration with a bunch of people on hand to witness it. I don't think it was stated anywhere that those people were the TOS crew or were to represent them. So it could have been other people on hand to see this rollout.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Yes, however, the picture I placed above is identical, although cropped, as the one seen in the inset of the roll out video on page 3 of this thread. So they are clearly showing the TOS cast in the credits of Enterprise...
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
quote:Reiterated by CaptainMike20X6: i's sure i'd be able to see the leisure suits like beacons ..
um.. no, that means that i have clearly cropped a photo of the cast and pasted it into a cap from the credits
this's the cap from the credits.. notice the name is painted in a different place on the Enterprise than it is in the inset picture. notice that the people in the ENT cap are not the TOS cast.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Now, the real question is based on these pictures in perspective with the TOS cast:
What is the length of the Enterprise?
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
caption: much like its descendants, the OV Enterprise changes configurations between shots
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"What is the length of the Enterprise?"
Never ask that question!
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
OK, so, what is the length of Defiant?
Oh well, so isn't TOS cast... although I believe it is indeed the Enterprise - note the covered RCS thrusters.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Length of the Defiant:
End of argument.
Shouldn't it be "Enterprise" rather than "The Enterprise" when talking about the shuttle? I thought that's why the version in the show doesn't have a "The" in front of it...because it's suppossed to be more NASA than Navy.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6: this's the cap from the credits.. notice the name is painted in a different place on the Enterprise than it is in the inset picture. notice that the people in the ENT cap are not the TOS cast.
Doooooooooooh!
I see now...guess if I actually watched the theme I would have realized that that was partially your creation and not the 'real thing'... Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Veers: It's horrible. They ruined it! I liked the old version of "Faith of the Heart," but now because of complaining fanboys, it's been changed. To this! Aaahhh!
Well, at least I still have the first episode of "Enterprise" on tape, so if I want to hear the original theme again, I can just watch it there.
Yep. Berman said it was changed to be a little faster and edgier...
In exactly what way is a country/western version of a song that was once recorded by Rod Stewart "edgier"?
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
C&W music always sets me on edge....
Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: C&W music always sets me on edge....
LOL!
Thank you. That explains it completely.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I'm glad they decided against their Outkast/Dre reworking of FOTH. OMG BT is so fine.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Does anyone have a mp3 of the new theme? I haven't been able to watch Enterprise for a very long time.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Don't you know? Asking for MP3's of clearly copyrighted material on the internet constitutes you a terrorist threat according to the RIAA. Homeland Security will be on your butt presently.
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