No one has reacted - and again - i am the first to post a reaction - and I look forward to some debate on this one.
This one, I think was an OK ep. I didn't wow me. Very low-tech, so they gave the FX dudes a break for a change. Again - I'd like to point out a continuing arc in my posts: No Mayweather again in this episode. As some people have said, they may as well write the poor bastard out of Enterprise all together.
And it's not like i like his character.. i just wanted to see him grow in to a Sulu type character. But as it is always in Star Trekian tradition - only 3 character are prevelant..
TOS: Kirk, Spock and McCoy. TNG: Picard, Data, Riker (w/ honorable mention to LaForge) DS9: Sisko, Dax, Odo (w/ honorable mention to Kira) Voy: Janeway, 7of9 and 7of9 (w/ honorable mention to 7of9 and Janeway)
and now - here we are - Enterprise: Archer, Trip and T'Pol.
Now - back to the episode.
I think it was a good vacation from the space-faring storylines. Every Star Trek series has now done a "Western" episode. Kudo's to the FX guys for making Archer's shoulder explode! That was cool. I found the characters likable - and i wanted to punch the deputy in the face the minute he openned his mouth - so he was convincing enough for me.
LIke I said - it didn't wow me.. but just taking it for pure entertainment value .. i like it enough...
My favorite scene: When T'Pol is taken hostage.. and Reed shoots her with the phase pistol - and then shoots the cowboy .. I loved it!!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I was dreading the episode buuuuut... I really loved the episode. ...by far Trek's best and only plausable western.
They actually managed to take the WORST premise of TOS and make areally really good episode! No "parrallel earth" crap either!
Moment of true greatness: Reed stuns T'Pol! No wonder he's my favorite character! GO REED!
Archer getting shot was particularly gruesome too. The deputy was so damn dispicable that I wanted him to die. Badly.
Bakula's acting was far above par...this whole season has shown all the actors coming into their own. Except Mayweather, but I've heard that actor asked for time off.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"DS9: Sisko, Dax, Odo (w/ honorable mention to Kira)"
With honorable mention to everyone else on the cast. Even to Morn, talkative bastard that he was. B)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think Morn said far more intelligent things than either Dr.Crusher ot Troi.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
quote:I think Morn said far more intelligent things than either Dr.Crusher ot Troi.
WAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Morn: "I sense -- *gurgle* that I have a medical condition that *gurgle* makes me feel and sense that my liquid latinum is coming up" *Latinum spills from his lips upon the table!*
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And to be fair to VOY, they also had the Doctor.
And TNG also had enough time for all of the crew, IMO. Only in the movies do they largely focus on Picard and Data.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Oh, that's just because Worf was on DS9 and Geordi became Mr. I'll-get-the-ship-blown-up-by-LOSERS in Generations. Nobody wants to see any more of him than that nice scene in Insurrection on the bridge. Troi's role in Nemesis was small but imprornant. I'd frankly rather see Wesley on the big screen than his mom.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Am I forgetting when DS9 did a western? And Voyager too... I don't remember a Voyager Western either. TNG had Fist Full of Datas. TOS had an episode whose name I don't remember.
Remind me.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
"Spectre of the gun"
And I believe that VOY wasn't that bad when it comed to secondary characters
So, anyway, it was another pointless episode. It would be ok if it was 2nd season episode, but now? I thought they were supposed to fight with Xindi threat?
But I'm not saying that this was bad episode... It was quite good, actually... Go Reed go!
And Mayweather had one line. One damn line... What the hell is with those people? They created series with seven main characters. Not six. Seven. Even that barber had more screentime than poor Travis.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I wonder how those acters get paid? Is he getting screwed in his paycheck, because he only gets one line, a week?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Probably.
I just wish actors got paid less when their performances sucked. Ol' Brad Pitt and Keannu Reeves would be on food stamps.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I just wish actors got paid less when their performances sucked. Ol' Brad Pitt and Keannu Reeves would be on food stamps.
Shatner would have had little trouble keeping his weight down, too.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Because Brad Pitt is not a terrific actor.
At all.
Not good, at least.
Not good.
At least.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
Aban - yip.. the holosuite western with Worf and Alexander as cowboys !! Personally - i didn't like any of the eps with Alexander in it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Anything focusing on Alexander or Troi is your cure to watch something....anything else.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Personally I think that Troi just rocked in Fistful of Datas. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ahhh...season seven: home to only ONE really good episode (AGT, of course).
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
That was almost essentially a reset episode too... I mean half the new stuff was from the future side of the episode so it didn't stick in the present. However, in a bit of saving grace it was a nice end to "Encounter at Farpoint" so it being a reset episode was forgivable [a rare occassion].
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Beverly Crusher - Hot. Deanna Troi - Not so much.
Wow, but that was an OK Western. Archer didn't bug me almost the whole time. When he punched that deputy, it wasn't a tactical decision. He was just pissed that he got his receding hairline punched earlier. That's like a human reaction. Hooray for him as a real character. Then they totally violated the non-existent Prime Directive without making a whole big continuity-bursting ordeal over it. Glenn Morshower was great as the Sheriff. Reed's "shoot-the-hostage" tactics were great, and though I'd kind of expected more from the Star Fleet Troopers, we did get to see them being a little useful. I'm impressed that they rationalized the speciesism of the humans by making them the descendents of human slaves. Good stuff, and interesting.
Alas, T'Pol was still characteristically totally not Vulcan at all. I'm at a loss for why Trip was even there. And that transport seemed to come together awfully fast. But I did think it was a good Ep. Well shot too.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
quote: He was just pissed that he got his receding hairline punched earlier.
WAHAHAH.. You guys are killing me laughing here!! LMAO!!
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I would have liked to have seen T'Pol upset, or in the least Reed apologetic for shooting her.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It was a tactical decision, and I'm T'Pol will agree, quite logical. Besides, she likes the attention the guys give her Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Just watched the ep, and it occurs to me that this would have been a good use for Mayweather; after all, assuming he is of African-American origin, at the same time as these people's ancestors were made slaves his ancestors might have been slaves. OK, a bit of an obvious parallel, but it could have been interesting if done right.
It was never established when these people were abducted, was it? At the end Bethany says the Wright brothers' flight took place forty years after, and the presence of Colt Peacemakers (and Winchester repeaters?) puts it at post-Civil War. . .
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
More like mid-American Civil War. Early 1860s.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Are you sure it was forty years? The "three centuries" comment earlier had me thinking 1850s, and I remember that the bit about the Wrights made me decide that it was after the Civil War, but I can't remember the exact number now.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
"Before people could travel through space to other planets, they had to get off the ground first. Almost forty years after my ancestors left earth, two brothers from Ohio became the first human beings to build a successful flying machine. Their names were Orville and Wilbur Wright. . ."
So, if we take "almost forty years" as more than thirty-five, say, about thirty-eight years, that would mean 1865. When were the two cowboy weapons first introduced? Both in 1873 according to these pages:
Of course, the whole idea doesn't really make sense anyway. Why would these slaves be allowed to keep their guns? Unless they were confiscated and reclaimed just before, during or after the revolt. Then you have to ask, would all the originals still be working, or would some enterprising blacksmith have made copies? In which case Trip's copy wouldn't have passed inspection by that stablehand; or maybe there are loads of different bootleg Peacemakers available on the planet.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
What if the 'almost 40 years' was AFTER they got there, not counting travel time, which might have been in statis.
The new planet certainly doesn't have the same length years and days as Earth. 40 local years might have only been been 30 Earth years.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
No, adding in stasis and/or travel time just adds to the forty years, since she's quite specific that the time period refers to when they left Earth, which had to be after 1873.
And, I guess she could be referring to local years, since although they now know what the date is meant to be in Earth years, the fact they're stuck on. . . whatever the planet was called. . . for quite some time to come means they might continue to use the local year as their calendar.
So a local year would be three-quarters the length of a Solar year, which means the planet would be closer to the sun, right? Planet looked quite dry. . . A local year of approx 275 days is longer than Venus's year (225 days), but then the local sun might not be as powerful as Sol.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
A planet orbitting a higher-gravity star, would orbit faster, even in Earth's orbit.
Now that I think about it, 19th century settlers wouldn't know about the length of the year, outside of a calender that they brought with them. More likely, they would get thrown off by shorter days. A 20 hour day wouldn't feel that differnt to them, but would make each year, um, a couple months shorter?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Maybe. . .
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Was there anything to say that there may not have been two waves of abductions, and she was referring to the 1860s batch, while the weapons were brought along with the 1870s batch?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Probably their history is wrong and their ansestors were abducted later that they think. It's not like slaves would be given big incentives to explore thrir history: y'know, when they were free and all. As to the pea-shooters, it's possible taht some of the original abductees were blacksmiths and forged the guns in hope of rebelling one day.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
This, by the way, was a gorgeous shot. . .
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think the single most obvious area in which special effects have improved since, oh, Voyager, is in rendering planets. Sure, the CG ships are nice, but the planets tend to be, as pointed out, really spectacular. I think my favorite was, uh, in the episode about the prison ship hijacking. "Canamar."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alshrim Dax: No one has reacted - and again - i am the first to post a reaction - and I look forward to some debate on this one. But as it is always in Star Trekian tradition - only 3 character are prevelant..
TOS: Kirk, Spock and McCoy. TNG: Picard, Data, Riker (w/ honorable mention to LaForge) DS9: Sisko, Dax, Odo (w/ honorable mention to Kira) Voy: Janeway, 7of9 and 7of9 (w/ honorable mention to 7of9 and Janeway)
Hey come now - The TNG movies may be all Picard and Data - but the series was DEFINATELY not like that. You can't say that about DS9 EITHER - DS9 is the antithesis of your... idea about 'big 3's'.
Sisko sometimes wasn't even a major player. I mean one could say someone like Garak had a bigger arc than Sisko.
And if you want to go big three's for Voyager than it is definately Janeway, 7 of 9 and the DOCTOR of course. Chuckles, Tuvok, Kes and Neelix were nearly forgotten the next lot of episodes would have probably gone to Tom Paris and B'Lanna.
Andrew
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:TNG: Picard, Data, Riker (w/ honorable mention to LaForge)
Hold on here. The big three with TNG was Picard, Data, and WORF. LaForge was the most neglected member of the ensemble cast.
As for DS9, in episodes which focused on the ensemble, I think Sisko usually dominated. But DS9 had MANY MANY MANY episodes where only a handful of the cast was features and other characters had very minor roles - I remember several episodes where Sisko has only one line, and appears (briefly) in one scene. I think DS9 was much better about giving everyone (including the secondary cast members: Martok, Garak, Nog, Rom, Wynn, Dukat, Damar, Weyoun, the Female Founder, etc.) a good deal of the spotlight. In some cases, the spotlight given to secondary cast members outshown primary cast members. I mean, look at Nog's "arc" in the later two seasons - he was getting better stuff than Jake was!
PS - Andrew, in regards to Sisko v Garak, I don't think you could argue Garak had a bigger arc. After all, for Garak it was essentially "former card-carrying member of Cardassians for a Paranoid Secretive Big Brother Government returns home after helping ensure the destruction of the Cardassia he loved", and for Sisko it was "becomes a god." Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
That leaves us with TOS and Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Actually, Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were the only ones credited in the intro, so it really was all about them. "The Cage" would've probably focused on Pike, Dr. Boyce and Number One, although I have the funny feeling it might have given more time to secondary characters like Yeoman Colt and the 'Martian' Spock.
ENT also clearly focuses on Archer, T'Pol and Tucker. Close fourth is Reed, but other than that, not an awful lot of development yet for everyone from Hoshi to Shran. And I won't even mention poor old Travis. And I really really like Phlox. A wonderfully alien alien, without being a completely annoying Neelix.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I have to say that of all te series, TOS has the least character development and DS9 the most. All the TOS characters remain static untill STII (and Chekov, Scotty and Uhura even after that). Heck, the cast of DS9 is RADICALY diffrent by season seven: even O'Brien (and he was intresting back on TNG).
Phlox is now my second favorite doctor (Bashier being the Fav). Billingsly is just amazing and conveys a kind of serenity to Phlox that doesnt smack of arrogance.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Though, to be fair, by the end of DS9 certain characters were either amalgamated or more or less forgotten. You hardly ever got an O'Brien story, but instead an O'Brien/Bashir story, for instance. And Jake...well, Jake who?
Not that I'm complaining about the former case. Friendships are neat, and usually lacking in Star Trek, I think. Sure, Spock and Kirk were friends, but not really, you know, buddies, not till the movies.
And here is a huge off-topic digression, for which I apologize in advance: It always bothered me that Kirk and McCoy had this warm friendship with no origin ever given. I mean, he'd been in command of the Enterprise for maybe as much as a year before McCoy came aboard. Did they know each other prior to that? Nobody knows. With Spock, it's sort of vaguely implied that they didn't meet until their Enterprise assignments, but Kirk meeting McCoy is just sort of out in the abyss somewhere. And no, I'm not particular interested in a novel about it, though I am sure there are many with just that plot, and I may have even read some.
Though, to bring things slightly closer to the topic, I'm kind of fuzzy on the Archer/Trip friendship too. I guess it may have come up in that episode about the early warp test that I happened to miss.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That episide (the warp test one) is where the two met but there'd be a couple of years (minimum) between that ep and the launch of the NX-01. Lots of time for backstory.
I noticed that Data and Geordi became pals in an unnaturaly short span: BINGO: season two starts and they're unseperable.
Mabye Travis just needs to pair up with Hoshi so they can both get a little screen time.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I noticed that Data and Geordi became pals in an unnaturaly short span: BINGO: season two starts and they're unseperable.
Well, they did spend a year sitting at those forward consoles together, apparently on the same shift, and Picard seemingly had no problem with them talking about things not related to work. That's hardly a small amount of time.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I think also out of the other 'senior staff' - LaForge was probably the one who best 'got' Data - the others were still getting to know Data - and Picard had a different relationship with him altogether - being a mentor to Data on humanity.
And as Data mentioned in "Data's Day" - Counsellor Troi was sort of an enigma to him.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And they obviously hung out a lot anyway. Hell, most of the serior staff (bar Picard, to an extent) seemed to spend most of their off duty time together. Which does make some sense, considering how closely they lived. It'd be like a university halls of residence, or holiday camp, except everyone has mobiles. Or something.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
These days, everyone has mobiles anyway. I wonder if they ever had Toga Parties in Ten-Forward. . .
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Yeah. Cell phones are SO 1999. Now togas, those have been around forever. B)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The Toga parties are probably in one of those OTHER crew lounges... cause I'm sure 10-forward isn't the ONLY place to go on the ship. It's a wonder they never mentioned or showed a restraunt.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
How about skinny-dipping in the dolphin tanks then?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: It's a wonder they never mentioned or showed a restraunt.
Because, God knows, if there's one thing an action adventure sci-fi series needs, it's lots of restaurant scenes.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Not that TNG was an action/ adventure anything during most of season seven.
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