Let's use this thread for spoilers and speculation on the final episode. What we know so far, including sources:
-It is a single episode, not a multi-parter (Ep. guide)
-It's specifically being written as a series finale (Coto, plus it's being written after the announcment was made)
-Berman and Braga are penning it (Coto)
-It is NOT a time travel story (Coto)
-Frakes and Sirtis ARE gonna be in it (Frakes)
Anything else?
Mark
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Why do I have this feeling that the very end of the episode is going to be Riker and Troi in bed reading aloud from a history book on Enterprise's adventures?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Do we have any info as to whether it will be a 1 or 2 hour long format?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
If it were a two-hour finale, it would be assigned two production numbers and count as two episodes. Given the known number of episodes established for this season and UPN/Pramount's oh-so-tight purse strings, it will most certainly be a one-hour finale.
I'm figuring that Riker and Troi will bookend the series as well, while irrefutably tying ENT into the main franchise canon. There was a nice short fiction written somewhere on the TrekBBS boards about how the episode ends with Enterprise heading out into the stars to begin the Romulan wars. The shot dissolves to Riker and Troi on an empty NX-01 bridge, the ship now preserved in the fleet museum. Acknowledging the contribution this ship made to history and the birth of the Federation, they find the resolve to finally strike out on their own aboard the USS Titan... Fade out.
Mark
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
The issue I have with Frakes & Sirtis being guest stars in the series finale is the same as I had for Shatner possibly making an appearance: It's just the fanwank value of having someone from a previous series on the show for ratings purposes, while making the reasons for actually having said person on the show secondary.
It's like when they filmed scenes with Quark for ST:Insurrection, or when they bandied the idea of having 7 of 9 appear in Nemesis, then ultimately using Janeway: None of these instances were actually needed, and in some cases would have distracted from the main story.
So just why to Riker & Troi need to make an appearance? First of all, it seems to me that since they couldn't get Shatner (and either didn't bother trying to get Patrick Stewart or he just said no), they tried to get somebody for the reasons above. I mean, I don't particulary want to see them. About the only thing I'd like to see is the Titan, and there's no definite word on that, either (or if we did see it, I'd be too worried that Eaves would just re-use a Prometheus or a Nova).
Of course, what would be nice is if the scenes with Riker & Troi took place at the beginning of the 25th century, when they are now serving on the Enterprise-F instead of the Titan. At least we'd be able to have some linkage with the actual show "Enterprise."
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's Enterprise-J I think you're talking about..?
I sincerely doubt we'd see anything of the Titan - that'd just be too disrupting to any story they'd tell with Archer and crew, if it's some sort of bookend as we are theorizing. It'd be fun, but for this show and this budget, unless it's a fair chunk of the plot, we won't see anything sizeable from a different time frame.
And I think Coto or one of the writers has said that Shatner's story was independent of whatever they're writing for Frakes and Sirtis. The Shatner story was supposed to be a Reeves-Stevens work,a nd they're not doing the finale.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I was thinking Riker and Troi would be seen as part of events from First Contact being revisted, but if it's not a time travel story, I'm not sure how that would work. Flashbacks? That too could be quite pointless.
I don't like the idea of bookending the series, because it reduces the whole thing to Riker's imagination. Kind of like the entire season of Dallas that turned out to be a dream so they could write a dead character back into the show.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
It is revealed that Riker is Future Guy, wanting to avoid the formation of the Federation so that he never joins Starfleet Academy, meets Troi, marries her years later, and his life with her aboard the USS Titan turns into a hell of a nightmare. Troi shows up to take him back. "Yes, dear..." Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
If it's not a time travel story, either Frakes adn Sirtis are nto playing Riker and Troy, or the story has an eplog set in the future.
Visiting the Enterprise Museum would be cool.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Perhaps it's just Riker waking up to an awful 4-year long dream.
Sorry.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Frankly, I was hoping the rumors about Frakes and Sirtis showing up were going to apply to the Mirror ep, showing events from First Contact, and the sudden downturn things took after the Ent. E crew beamed up.
I just don't liek the idea of the finale of the show introducing detracting points from the finale of the show. I mean, seriously, would All Good Things' final shot have had the same effect if, after panning up from the saucer, the screen fades to Kirk looking down on the Ent D from the Nexus and saying, "Yah... that's just how I would have handled things."
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I was thinking about this today. How can Riker & Troi appear? You have the interactive (and non-time travelling) stroylines. . .
- A bit of a "Cause and Effect" thing in which the NX-091 gets stuck in a time-loop until it escapes - and encounters the Titan. Not time-travel per se.
- An "Eye of the Needle" thing (or a "Sound of her Voice" thing) involving temporal communication. Hmm, who suggested Riker as Future Guy? It'd sure annoy a lot of people.
. . . and the non-interactive. . .
- A re-tread of the library scene from Insurrection where Riker and Troi review the adventures of Archer & Co.
- Or they're seen as background crewmembers on the NX-01, and at the end it turns out they're having a little family holonovel session.
- Or - my personal favourite - Riker comes out of the sonic shower and says "Honey, I had this weird dream last night!" 8)
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: - Or - my personal favourite - Riker comes out of the sonic shower and says "Honey, I had this weird dream last night!" 8)
Or see Scott Bakula do a tie-in to Quantum Leap like the ending of Newhart tied into The Bob Newhart Show. That was a great series finale.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:- Or they're seen as background crewmembers on the NX-01, and at the end it turns out they're having a little family holonovel session.
That's my favourite theory so far. Imagine the series ending with the words "Computer, End Program" FADE TO BLACK then the Quantum Leap-esq epilogue "They never could get the Holodeck's historical re-creations to work right."
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Or maybe it turns out that Enterprise was just the imagination of little boy with autism:)
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Or that all of Star Trek was. Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
quote:Originally posted by Siegfried: Or see Scott Bakula do a tie-in to Quantum Leap
Alright Al, now can I fucking leap?
Why would Eaves have anything to do with the Prometheus or Nova? Those are Sternbach's ships. Drexler designed NX-01 because the producers wanted to capitalize on the popularity of the Akira. He only did what his employers told him to do, give the guy a break.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Why would Eaves have anything to do with the Prometheus or Nova? Those are Sternbach's ships.
You misunderstood my point. It wasn't about who designed what ship. It was about the possibility of the Titan being shown, and that instead of making a new design for the vessel, Eaves would just dip into the CGI archives & pick out an old ship. I used the Prometheus and Nova as examples because of their appearances in "Endgame." For all I know, he could just as easily pick an Excelsior or the Ent-E.
I guess what I was trying to say was that if an older design for the Titan is shown instead of a new design, then I'd personally rather not see the ship at all.
Of course, this is all based on the theory that the ship will be shown or referred to at all, which so far we have no evidence of anyway.
Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
''Excelsior''? That bucket 'o bolts!?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Sometimes the inherent Comic-Book-Guy-ness of some of you is overwhelming. I've never seen such petulance. "I don't want to see the Titan unless it's a new class?" Ooh, look, you've thrown your teddy out of the pram, here, let me get it for you. Wake-up call, morons! You pulled the that's-not-what-I-want-I want-this-instead one too many times, and now, you're going to have to go without.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, I mean, you'd think something that had been played up as much as the Titan has would be new and original and not some common design we've seen a dozen times before. Gotta get that eye-candy factor, man.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Played up, though?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
The ship Riker finally accepted command of after so many years of refusing so many others?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Surely that tells us much more about Riker than it does the newness of the Titan? He had just decided to get married as well, and Troi isn't exactly fresh off the assembly line.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You'd still do her though, wouldn't you.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
To be honest, I've never found her particularly attractive. I mean, she's a handsome woman and all, but, I don't know, sort of matronly.
But, you know, after a few drinks, and the DJ is packing away his gear, and the prospect of a long walk home alone down sudddenly uneven streets brings on a wild-eyed fear of dying alone, who knows?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But I don't mean to slight her or anyone. I mean, she is better looking than most of the people I meet. I do not want anyone to feel bad.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Isn't the design of the Titan the subject of some contest by the publishers of the Star Trek books? I thought, for some reason that that contest was given the green light by Paramount. If it was, coming up with their own design would be pretty dumb.
But who are we kidding... we're not going to see the ship.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I understand the problem. No class really seems right as a candidate to be the Titan. Far better to just not see the ship at all. Which will suit the Paramount purse-holders just fine. But imagine if we saw a brief, tantalising glimpse. . . We'd still be arguing about it when they resurrect the franchise!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But I don't mean to slight her or anyone. I mean, she is better looking than most of the people I meet. I do not want anyone to feel bad.
Just to check...are you worried that Sirtis is going to read this, think "Oh no, Simon does not want to sleep with me! My life's goal has been unsuccessful! " and then leap out of her bedroom window (presumably not on the ground floor)?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
*Assuming* any of this speculation about how Riker and Troi show up is half way correct, the most we'll see is a generic post-Voyager-era starship interior. I doubt they'll make any reference to the Titan at all for fear of people not understanding the last scene of the series.
And who's to say R and T's appearance will be post-Nemesis? Maybe they'll be in TNG uniforms... or DS9 uni's setting their apearance between All Good Things and Generations... huh? How bout that?!
And Marina... if you're reading this... don't worry about Simon. I still think you're one sexy beast.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And if anyone would know about being a sexy beast, Ms Sirtis, it would be Aban.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I understand the problem. No class really seems right as a candidate to be the Titan. Far better to just not see the ship at all. Which will suit the Paramount purse-holders just fine. But imagine if we saw a brief, tantalising glimpse. . . We'd still be arguing about it when they resurrect the franchise!
What if the ship turns out to be a re-use of the design for the United Galaxy Sanitation Patrol ship captained by a certain Adam Quark?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I just don't like to be mean.
Or, rather, I do, but I feel guilty about it.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But, you know, after a few drinks, and the DJ is packing away his gear, and the prospect of a long walk home alone down sudddenly uneven streets brings on a wild-eyed fear of dying alone, who knows?
So you're saying you'd do her, then. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"But I don't mean to slight her or anyone. I mean, she is better looking than most of the people I meet. I do not want anyone to feel bad."
Except, apparently, most of the people you meet.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Ooh, look, you've thrown your teddy out of the pram, here, let me get it for you. Wake-up call, morons! You pulled the that's-not-what-I-want-I want-this-instead one too many times, and now, you're going to have to go without.
WTF was that response all about? I simply stated my personal opinion that I'd rather see a new starship design instead of an old one. This is Starships & Technology, you know, the place where we discuss this type of thing. Or were you just being a jerk for a totally unrelated reason? Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Actually, you're in the Enterprise forum, Dukhat.
That little bit of nitpicking aside, I'm not sure that we need to see a new class starship for the Titan. Sure, it's always great to see a new starship, but I think a Galaxy or a Sovereign is worthy of whatever it is that makes Riker an ideal candidate for captain.
Of course, I say that with the understanding that we're probably not going to see the Titan at all. I'm sure the bulk of the budget for these last few Enterprise episodes was spent on "In a Mirror, Darkly".
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: So you're saying you'd do her, then.
Wil Wheaton and I have one thing in common: we both had crushes on Marina Sirtis. However, Wil got Marina to sit in his lap while I've had to make do with scouring the 'net for topless pictures of her.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Actually, you're in the Enterprise forum, Dukhat.
D'oh! Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I doubt any "scouring" of the net would be really necessary when it came to finding topless pictures of Marina Sirtis. Since appearing topless in The Wicked Lady was about the only thing she'd done previous to being cast in TNG, "tripping over them all over the place" is perhaps more apt. And she had a horrible 80s perm (this despite it being a period piece) in it anyway.
I find it singularly ironic that the linked search produces exactly one image of Sirtis, in a First Contact Starfleet uniform.
-MMoM Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
In which case I'll upgrade that to "you'll definitely need SafeSearch switched off." Lateral thinking. MMoMmychops.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Damn it.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
She was also topless in a movie called Blind Date, Lee. In it, she plays a hooker who's picked up by a psycho who then cuts her up.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Hot.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
So, not the 'hilarious' romantic comedy starring Bruce Willis and Kim Basinger then.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Also starring Kirsty Alley...
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
And Keir Dullea...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
HEy does anyone else here think Troi is hot (15 years ago)?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
In a word, no.
Posted by Footrama Goo (Member # 968) on :
That really wasn't a question for the masses, just an example.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
She did get a lot better when she started wearing the uniform, though. Captain Kinsey (or whatever his name was) did one thing right. Of course, the then blew it by blowing Livingstone out of the airlock, or something.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: She did get a lot better when she started wearing the uniform, though. Captain Kinsey (or whatever his name was) did one thing right. Of course, the then blew it by blowing Livingstone out of the airlock, or something.
Captain Edward Jellico
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Captain Jellico lives in a pineapple under the sea!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I think it's safe to say Herbiechops has set the campaign for a Stargate forum back several years. 8)
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