This morning in this thread on the TrekBBS, poster Quills, who is some kind of inside participant in ENT production and has provided accurate and reliable information on numerous previous occasions, revealed the following information about the B&B-written season/series finale:
quote:...Trip dies at the end and the episode is a holographic program on the holodeck of the Enterprise-D (yes..."D" as in how DUMB can you get!)which Riker and Troi are observing. The series itself is not a hologram program, but the likelihood of bringing it back after this bullshit is practically zero.
Yep, you read it right. WTF?!?
Quills went on to say that both he/she and many other members of the crew felt this was "a terrible way to end the series" and I must say I agree. Is there no justice?
-MMoM Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I knew that the finale was doomed to suckitude the second I read that Berman and Braga were going to be writing it. This sounds exactly like their kind of bullshit.
Still, something like this is pretty bad, even for someone with a string of spectacular failures over the past five-plus years as Braga has had. I'm not too attached to the show, but it still deserves a decent farewell.
The more things change, the more they stay the same, right? Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
In one of the recent interviews about the upcoming finale, Rick Berman said something to the effect of making the last episode a Valentine to the fans. I figured he was talking about the cutesy bunny valentine card that has "I LUV U" written on the inside in crayon.
Instead, it sounds like we're getting the same kind of valentine I got from Michele in the 5th grade. It was black and the inside said I was a fat, stupid boy. Also on the inside was something that looked suspiciously like a booger.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
The -D?! What the fuck! Hopefully they won't wear the Voyager jumpsuits or FC gray uniforms.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm getting flashbacks to David Sluss' summary of VGR's "Endgame": "A big 'Up yours' card from Voyager's staff to Voyager's viewers."
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
It would've been better if B&B died at the end, and spared poor Trip's life. HE doesn't deserve it.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I read this post at TrekBBS last night, but figured that someone else would beat me to posting it here. Looks like MMOM gets the trophy.
When I first read this, I figured it was some kind of joke. However, because Quills has provided rock-solid spoilers in the past, and that both he and another member, Morpheus, are some type of insider, I unfortunately believe that this is true.
Since you can read the TrekBBS post for yourself, I won't reiterate what it says, but will bring up some interesting points.
1. At one point, Quills implies that there was a different script penned (one possibly involving the Titan), but that it got changed to this one for the reason below.
2. He also states that the modus operandi for this change is that TPTB wanted to have a script that will ultimately force that show never to return.
Posted by Mr. Turnbull (Member # 1323) on :
That is one pretty F-d up storyline right there.
I was going to give bermanga the benifit of the doubt, they've had a bit of a break a chance to let their creative jucies flow, but if even an inkling of this story is true, Bermanga MUST DIE!!!!!!!!
I'm just hoping this is a sick joke being playeed on us by some one on the writing staff.
A ruddy holodeck of all things. and the Monstrocity known as the ENT-D, all that work manny coto put in to ST:ENT over the last year has been for nothing. NOTHING! *cries*
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
After reading that, I feel that my idea of having the show end with the entire series being the imagination of an autistic boy seems like a godsend. Either that or an ending where Scott Bakula appears at the end of the show with big, sad puppy-dog eyes holding a daisy and a heart-shaped sign that says "We Wuv You Trek Fans" seems a lot more rewarding. Right now I feel soo jaded that I don't even feel like watching the rest of the show. The only thing I'm looking forward to is a cgi Constitution-class appearing on the show and that's it (assuming they don't f*ck that up either).
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I hoping this is a false story that was intentially leaked so viewers will be surprised when the real episode airs (and as I understand from the recent "These are the final episodes" promo, it will be a two-hour long finale.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I hope that, not only fans blast the shit out of Berman and Braga but that their peers in the Television and Movie industry do too. Endings to stories in the vein of "and it was all just a dream" is like a BIG BIG no, no in writing - and THIS was in 3rd grade, writing little stories!!
If I was a TV exec, and I saw the response that these two are getting to their work - I would NEVER hire them!
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Holy shit... they better not even hint that the last four years are similar to Barcley's daydreams on the holedeck... but even that would make me puke. But the worse part is the fact they want to bring back the Enterprise-D!!!! Let her rest in peace and shove Troi and Riker onboard the Titan.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
After reading the whole thread over there and taking in more and more details, I've finally figured out what's upsetting me about the finale. It isn't that Commander Riker and Counselor Troi appear. It isn't that it takes place in the Holodeck of the Enterprise-D. It isn't that Trip dies.
What upsets me most is that this is really a slap in the face to Manny Coto, his writing team, and the work that they've put into this season. I have thoroughly enjoyed every episode this season. Some episodes I've been less thrilled with than others, and some flaws have still slipped in. But I like the direction Coto took this season, and I like the framework that Coto's been setting up. I was disappointed to learn that this is the end of the series, but I'm upset that this is the note it goes out on. It sounds like the season is going to be bookended with disasters.
And, on edit, here's another thing that's also upsetting me. This is a power play right here. There was no need for Berman and Braga to jump in write the final episode. They've not had an impact on Enterprise at all this season other than the gag gift they gave Coto to start the season with. Coto really should have been the one to write the finale. This season has been his baby, and Berman and Braga has both moved on to setting up other ventures. There was no need for them to get their hands dirty with writing the final episode other to assert power one last time.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
This final episode (including Trip's demise) takes place several years after the current events of ENTERPRISE, shortly before the founding of the Federation. So likely that will be playing a large part as well. If the show somehow managed another season, it could have carried on with Trip for a complete 7 season run. Of course, that won't be happening...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
First, Wee Bairns, does the site linked to in your signature happen to feature nuclear wessels?
Second, what on Earth makes them think anyone's going to buy Marina Sirtis as an eleven-years-younger (or more) version of herself?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Or Frakes as Riker, for that matter. Both of them barely had the proper cut in their jib to squeeze into their costumes in Nemesis. Time makes fools of us all, doubly so in Hollywood.
I'm starting to really think that the E-D thing is leaked or misinformation. But given the outrage (whatever the focus), you'd think this would DRIVE AWAY people rather than attract 'em.
Mark
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Damn it. Mark beat me by one minute with the witty remark about Frakes' weight.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I agree Bermaga should NOT have been allowed to write the finale. Manny's the Man.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
As Wee Bairns mentioned, there is some additional information that was quoted by one of the BBS administrators from "a reliable source":
quote:The events of the finale (well, the NX-01 bits) take place a few years in the future, just before the Federation is formed. There's no time travel or anything, we just pick up our characters a few years down the road. So if another season were to happen, it would take place directly after season four. We'd be clear of the finale until we got to like season ten, which ain't gonna happen.
And also, the name of the episode (at least for now) is "These Are The Voyages..."
quote:Originally posted by Dat: I hoping this is a false story that was intentially leaked so viewers will be surprised when the real episode airs (and as I understand from the recent "These are the final episodes" promo, it will be a two-hour long finale.
Since this information comes from multiple sources, and these sources have brought only reliable information in the past, the idea that this is a hoax is somewhat unlikely. As to the "two-hour" thing, they're just saying that because the current airdate schedule has the both the penultimate episode "Terra Prime" and the finale airing back-to-back on the night of May 15th. They are each only one hour long, and are completely separate episodes.
-MMoM Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"Bermaga?" This thread is a good example of why Star Trek fans don't deserve nice things.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's not a bad episode title, though.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
An episode named "Bermaga"?
This all sounds fairly disgusting - far worse than the accumulated dosage of seasons 1-3, really. I've got a pretty good idea what aired part of the Trek mythos will face the most challenges to its canonicity status during the next few Trekless years. Or decades.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(The alleged finale episode, of course.)
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
So... If all this is true, the final episode of Star Trek: Enterprise will be "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars." Lovely.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Damn! Beaten to that!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hobbes: The -D?! What the fuck! Hopefully they won't wear the Voyager jumpsuits or FC gray uniforms.
Simon is +100% right.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
And just out of curiosity: when will the final episode air in the US?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
May 15th, as mentioned earlier in the thread, IIRC.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Sorry, I must have overlooked that fact. Thanks anyway.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I just don't see how in the world they're going to skip, 5 years or so, then slam us back into the story and expect there to be any connection to the events we know about.
"Remember 7 years ago when we defeated the Xindi sphere? "Sure, that was great." "Remeber two years ago when we fought in the battle of Gaggulus Prime and our lives were changed forever and everything that's happening to us now all got started?" "Ummm... no, that took place during the part the viewers never got to see..."
It'll be either that or we'll be expected to believe that nothing that happened over the last few years has had resonance enough to effect what's goign on when we pick the action up again.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
So, they're going to jump forward in time again, huh, to see what the crew look like in their old age? I'd be willing to bet good money that that part was Braga's idea. After seeing both "All Good Things..." and "Endgame", and now hearing the rumors for what will apparently be called "These Are the Voyages...", I'm starting to detect a recurring theme.
I've been thinking, if the finale has a holo-Trip pulling out a Garibaldi and having Riker and Troi killed and the E-D (or E-E, or Titan, or whatever it turns out to be) blown to pieces, I'm going to like the episode. If they were to show Picard and Data being blown to pieces beyond any hope of being saved, even by an intervention by Q, I might kiss Berman and Braga. And if they were to also add a horribly painful death for Janeway aboard the Voyager at the same time, I might even ask them to marry me. But I really don't think that's ever going to happen, not even in an alternate universe (any universe were there is even the slightest chance of that happening is likely to be destroyed at that precise instant), so you could say I'm cheating.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Supposedly,Riker will be debating to tell something quite importaint to Captain Picard....I'm thinking perhaps this story takes place during The Pegasus, at least the E-D portions.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Then that just makes it seem MORE like a mislead - if that's the case, it'll be Riker debating whether or not to take over the Titan, I'm sure of it.
Mark
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by machf: I've been thinking, if the finale has a holo-Trip pulling out a Garibaldi and having Riker and Troi killed and the E-D (or E-E, or Titan, or whatever it turns out to be) blown to pieces,
That's one hell of an dangerous biscuit...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Post of the Week!
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I see someone has issues with Trek...
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: it'll be Riker debating whether or not to take over the Titan, I'm sure of it.
Couldn't be worrying about the Titan unless its something he worries about past the destruction of the D and into his service aboard the E. Then again, if the Titan was just being built and it was going to take a few years to be ready for Riker, anything's possible. And appearently Frakes has slimmed down considerably from his last "look" during Nemisis. He looks close to his TNG days in size... Sirtis, on the other hand....
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I'm hoping the Riker/Troi scenes take place after Nemesis though since the ending for that film was something less than perfect in my book. Perhaps B&B are planning to make a better effort in a send-off for at least two of TNG actors.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
...And the entire TNG part of the franchise, by default.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I just don't see how in the world they're going to skip, 5 years or so, then slam us back into the story and expect there to be any connection to the events we know about.
Uh Oh - even though it was a good episode - I'm beginning to picture an ending/scene similar to the Voyager season 4 episode "Living Witness". Where the Doctor defends Voyager's reputation 700 years in the future on a planet - and at the end we see the future generations watching the holo-simulation (great episode). Hopefully they won't just repeat the ending.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Report indicates that Frakes has been squeezed into an ENT-era uniform, MACO uniform, and one other that's being kept as a surprise (T'Pol's, I'm guessing), in addition to their TNG-era stuff. 24th-century sets constructed include Ten Forward, Troi's quarters, "TNG-era corridors", and the Holodeck. The picture included in the set report confirms TNG signage and the familiar orange of the E-D's holodeck door.
Now, as unfortunate as it sounds, we may be stuck with Riker and Troi hopping around the E-D in that time period. Remember when people were hemming and hawwing about why the E-E wasn't seen in the background of DS9 during the Dominion War? There were certain rights issues then, combined with the B&B excuse that they didn't want the icon of their movie franchise "confused" with the TV series (which is BS, I maintain).
Anyway, while I'm hoping on the outside chance that this is misinformation and the Riker/Troi scenes DO involve their decision to leave Picard and the E-E crew, if it isn't, well, I'll be disappointed but not surprised. It'll be no worse than all the times Voyager backtracked to its openin season or two, while discounting how much older their actors looked. It'd be a record in this case, though.
Mark
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
What the hell... so they did save the Ten-Foward windows. Does that mean then Troi is on a crash diet for this cameo?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
That picture of the TNG signage is bugging me. The Holodeck doors in TNG were the brown, octagon-shaped, interlocking doors. The Enterprise-E in First Contact had the standard, orange doors for the Holodeck (although I think the door label there was Holosuite).
After reading the production report, I can say that I feel not one bit better about the finale. Sigh. At least we get to see Shran one last time, though.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hmm, so it may be the E-E after all... You're right, the E-D doors were greyish-beige, not orange. The original doors from TNG were recycled into the silver ones on VOY. Plus, it'd be a hell of a lot easier to re-assemble the crew-quarters, corridor, and briefing room set from what's in storage. If the Voyager Holodeck set was scrapped after the show, a holodeck is a pretty simple one to rebuild or greenscreen. Here's hoping...
And you know, it's just occurred to me - in perhaps the only bit of cleverness that will come of this episode, in the teaser, someone will visit the NX-01 galley, and a pan reveal will show that Chef is... Riker! The report mentioned that the galley set was re-assembled for that day's shooting, which may have been the only one for Frakes and Sirtis. Add that to the "surprise" outfit Riker will be wearing, and...
Mark
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
... Riker will be wearing a Chef Boyardee outfit and serving ravioli's.
Well I too am glad Shran will be in the finale, I sure will miss that blue skin. He was my favorite character in the whole damn series even if he wasn't a main character.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Now, as unfortunate as it sounds, we may be stuck with Riker and Troi hopping around the E-D in that time period. Remember when people were hemming and hawwing about why the E-E wasn't seen in the background of DS9 during the Dominion War? There were certain rights issues then, combined with the B&B excuse that they didn't want the icon of their movie franchise "confused" with the TV series (which is BS, I maintain).
I agree. I don't understand the way Paramount handles Star Trek licensing and rights. Certain rights issues? What's up with that? Aren't we all one big happy fleet?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Isn't it possible that that this is another Galaxy-class ship? Like, say, the Titan?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Riker playing Chef would support the theory that the final episode is a holodeck recreation, and the Riker is playing a side character just to observe events. He did like to cook after all.
Maybe he also plays a Maco in order to witness some away mission.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: Ah, but Enterprise D doors were also orange. Another Pic
Yes, the Enterprise-D had orange doors, but, again, the Holodeck doors were not orange. They were always the greyish-brown, octagon-shaped, interlocking doors in the picture that Mark linked to during The Next Generation. The same doors were used on the cargo bay and shuttle bay sets (although I seem to remember the shuttle bay at least having a set of wide, rectangular, doors painted gray).
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: And you know, it's just occurred to me - in perhaps the only bit of cleverness that will come of this episode, in the teaser, someone will visit the NX-01 galley, and a pan reveal will show that Chef is... Riker!
They've teased us with chef all these years, and then they're going to tell us that chef was Riker. I always hoped that they would reveal chef to be Issac Hayes; after all, we know that chef is black.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: Another Pic
Did anyone else notice that the number on the door here is the same as the picture in the startrek.com article?
B.J.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:Yes, the Enterprise-D had orange doors, but, again, the Holodeck doors were not orange. They were always the greyish-brown, octagon-shaped, interlocking doors in the picture that Mark linked to during The Next Generation.
I gotta fess up that I was totally wrong about this. I completely forgot that the corridor side of those octagon-shaped doors were painted orange with all the other doors; all I remembered were the interior side of the doors. My apologies to both Mark and Herb.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Bah, you've been our bee-yatch for years now - why should that ever change?
Apparently confirming the notion that the final will happen several years after the current set of events, the uniforms are slightly different. There seems to be a Starfleet patch on the right shoulder now, and everyone's got their names embroidered on their uniform left breast. Also, they now have apaulets on the shoulders, which serve no apparent function.
Or else the holodeck re-creation they're in didn't get things QUITE right. That, and Reed is still a Lieutenant. Yeesh, really.
Mark
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Federation Starship USS Titan, Galaxy Class. Riker and Troi settle into their new lives onboard and use the holodeck to think about Riker's new command post.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Says who?
Mark
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Rumours on TrekBBS suggest it takes place during TNG: "Pegasus".
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
To make the Titan Galaxy Class would negate the design contest for the new novel covers, wouldn't it?
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Since when do the novels match up the canon Trek well?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Something as prominent as this would cause a serious crimp in things.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
The only silver lining for me would then be seeing some of the TNG sets onscreen again.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
"Six years in the future, an emotional Captain Archer and the crew return to Earth to face the decommission of Enterprise and signing of the Federation charter, ratifying the newly-formed alliance of planets they helped forge. STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION's Jonathan Frakes guest stars as Riker and Marina Sirtis guest stars as Troi in this special series finale."
So Enterprise is being decommissioned after only ten years active service? Granted she's been through a lot, but the crew knows the ship can last over a century evn without home support... Either the old girl goes through a whole lot MORE, or she's being retired to the museum with honours to make way for everyone's favorite Daedelus class ships, instead of disappearing into obscurity as an obsolete second line starship...
Mark
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Enterprise A didn't even last ten years before being decomissioned. The movie implied that another crew would take over, kinda, but not too much later there was an Enterprise B.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
*grumble* I knew they were going to try and cram the founding of the Federation into this... Don't get me wrong, I've always thought that's how this series needed to end... but I think it needed a full run in order to do it.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So will we see more of that big auditorium from, uh, some previous episode? (The one with the big dead space inbetween the large podium and the audience that kind of annoyed me aesthetically.)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
"Home"?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: To make the Titan Galaxy Class would negate the design contest for the new novel covers, wouldn't it?
Someone should submit a design that is not as 'well known' but seen on the show - like in Wolf 359 to see how well the people choosing the design know their Trek! Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Is "Home" from this season? Because I'm thinking of an episode from last year, where Daniels jumps Archer to the UFP founding ceremony deal.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The least they can do is give us a little cookie where current-Archer sees Daniels and past-Archer looking out over the ceremony. And Archer better end up wearing a blue jacket... cause otherwise the episode will just suck.
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