Hi Guys I just saw the preview of the up coming episode In a Mirror, Darkly and saw the might Defiant sitting in what looks like a space dock. I was just wondering how the Defiant hull number can be so high when it was said at point that there where only twelve like her in the fleet. Just wondering and thanks.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well, given that we have no idea how registry numbers are assigned you could give pretty much any answer to that!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
If you're familiar with the many fandom Constitution-variants, then there's no problem with another construction block in the 1760s range.
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
It would probably be pretty foolish for starships to be numbered consecutively. A numbering scheme like that would give an enemy power a good idea of how many ships one has. For example, if the Klingons know that the first of the Constitution class ships has a registry number of 1700, and the highest number they've ever encountered is 1712, then they know that there are probably about 12 examples of the Federation's most powerful starship class. It would be more of a deterent if they were led to believe that there may be significantly more than there really are.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Plus, I'm sure that there were many other non-Contitution class vessels in Starfleet at the time which were given reg numbers between 170X and 176X.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
THere's a compromise: ships are numbered consecutivly, but since there would be several shipyards producing new vessels at the same time, a particular range of registry numbers would not mean that (for example) that the twelve ships built immeadeately after the Defiant were Connies.
The registry number could be used to aguge an aproximate time of the starship's launch-date at best (untill you get to the FC ships anyway- then it all breaks down biiigtime).
Besides, if the klingons started poking around with regards to your ship numbers, you could always re-assign an existing ship a far higher registry and new name as misinformation.
That would possibly allow for the high registries in the FJ tech manual.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm sure the Klingons can just go to Starfleet's website if they want to know how many Federation starships there are.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That's risky: Sure, Starfleet says it only wants your credit card number to verify your age, but.....
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Plus, I'm sure that there were many other non-Contitution class vessels in Starfleet at the time which were given reg numbers between 170X and 176X.
I like this. There are bound to be lots of ships big and small produced all the time - it's like getting a rego - you and a friend may not end up with consecutive number plates if you both arrive at the Dept Motor Vehicles at the same time - but at different offices. Maybe if you are at the same store and in the line after one another.
Oh and reguarding First Contact ships - either they've adopted an earlier ship's number in homage (remember the Enterprises only get the suffixes {well they're supposed to be the only ones}, OR They were started earlier and only finished much later, OR They are just older ships - but that is similar to the previous point (they may have had refits) the NCC-1701 refit looks WAY different to the NCC-1701 from TOS TV - the Thunderchild may have looked way different before it's refit - new escape pods/phaser strips etc. etc.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The idea that the FC ships were refits sits poorly with me.
Consider that much older ships (Excelsiors and Mirandas mainly) must have been refit several times in their century-long service, but none of the old ships we've seen have ever had their pennants or insignia updated. None of the old Ambassador class ships we've seen had their lifeboats updated...not any of the Galaxy class ships. Excelsiors and Mirandas dont sport lifeboats matching a Sabre or Akira.
Why then, would the Akira and Steamrunner have new design lifeboats? Why would all the FC ships have the new pennants introduced in DS9 if they're older ships?
If you have to assign a reason for the registries being so low, mabye it's because certain shipyards are assigned a particular range of registry numbers as a kind of quick identifier in fleet action/formation (some fleets may be assigned to a particular region of space- where their home shipyard is located).
This idea means that the FC family of starships (with their late 5XXX registries) might have been late-comers or reinforcments to the battle begun at the Typhon sector and all hail from the same tactical grouping. Or they're all that remains of it. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Zefram: It would probably be pretty foolish for starships to be numbered consecutively. A numbering scheme like that would give an enemy power a good idea of how many ships one has.
Let's see. There's the USS Enterprise, CVN-65, which I'm pretty sure was the 65th "fleet carrier" constructed by the United States Navy. You could try browsing the Naval Vessel Register's site and its listing of all the various ships of the Navy, organized by hull classification codes. Pretty much every single one of them is listed in order. And the only exception to that rule (that I'm aware of) is the submarines, which basically has been confused more out of reorganization than deliberate misinformation. After all, the government has far better ways of confusing enemy spies than with a few gallons of paint...
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Technically, with the US Navy, even though there is sequential numbering for ordered ships, not all of these ships had actually begun construction or were completed. I say this because while CVN-65 was the 65th carrier ordered, it's not the 65th to have been launched and commissioned. There was a block of carriers that had been ordered that were later cancelled, but had already been assigned the hull number.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
But it is, of course, impossible that such could have occurred with Starfleet's ships as well. Yep.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
Ring ring.. ring ring.. Hello, Mars? Hi, Starfleet here, You know we put that new connie on hold last week,..Yep,..Yep, well Jimbo's reported that last one missing, some kind of space warp....No, No, he didn't blow it up this time,....NO, anyway, that way your IT guy,,,No, well, I didn't belive the space amoeba thing either,,,,Well, I suppose you could call them rock mosters, and they do this web thing, Hello? Hello?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:The idea that the FC ships were refits sits poorly with me.
Me too.
Honestly, I think what happened was that the VFX guys weren't aware that 5xxxx and 6xxxx registries weren't the highest Starfleet had at the time. If someone had told them this (someone, say, like Mike Okuda), then I'm confident that all the ships would have had 7xxxx or even 8xxxx registries. I believe this because the same thing happened with the registry of the Prometheus.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by tricky: Ring ring.. ring ring.. Hello, Mars? Hi, Starfleet here, You know we put that new connie on hold last week,..Yep,..Yep, well Jimbo's reported that last one missing, some kind of space warp....No, No, he didn't blow it up this time,....NO, anyway, that way your IT guy,,,No, well, I didn't belive the space amoeba thing either,,,,Well, I suppose you could call them rock mosters, and they do this web thing, Hello? Hello?
That's pretty funny. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Consider that much older ships (Excelsiors and Mirandas mainly) must have been refit several times in their century-long service, but none of the old ships we've seen have ever had their pennants or insignia updated.
Not quite true. The Lakota has it's pennants updated to Voyager/Defiant style "arrowhead only" from the Excelsior's original "arrowhead with circle" from the movies. Likewise I seem to recall that later Galaxy-class ships also had the arrorheads without ovals on their nacelles.
In any case, this seems a bit of a silly argument when we have onscreen proof of a Constitution-class ship with a registry number of 1071, and from the original series no less.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)