Fuck me sideways with a Bat’leth. If they do this right - do right by all these characters and the actors who play them (in terms of screen time, character development etc.), who we all love, if it’s a genuine ensemble reunion for all that it’s Sir PS’s character’s name on the show, then… this rather overall disappointing show might just stick the landing!
I’m in my declining years. A SNW that doesn’t suck and a PIC s3 that is a proper TNG reunion, it’s not much to ask surely?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Oh no.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I admit there’s a lot of ifs in there, but what is the alternative to hope?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Resignation to a never-ending spiral of flashy crap.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I’m very hopeful about this. For all the issues with the plot and pacing of season one, something they definitely nailed perfectly was the reunion with Riker and Troi. Yes, the stories are all about overwhelming apocalyptic consequences, but the characters have been overall great. And I think they’ve done right by all the characters from previous shows (except poor Icheb).
My biggest worry is if they can devote enough time to catching up with the crew without derailing the whole season. Catching up with Riker and Troi (filling in the gaps of the last 20 years) in a single episode was one thing, doing the same for Geordi, Worf, and Beverly does add complexity.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
My biggest worries are that they kill off Picard (again) and put Worf into godawful STD makeup.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: My biggest worries are that they kill off Picard (again) and put Worf into godawful STD makeup.
I believe the showrunners have gone on record that they would not mess with Worf's look if/when he showed up. He's too iconic.
Also, is it just me, or is Spiner maybe reprising Lore? He sounded very Lore-ish here.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I was thinking maybe they get B4 working. He sounds more like him. And whereas it’s potentially questionable - when you think about it - to have poor B4’s rudimentary personality and minimal memories overwritten by Data’s, it’s arguably more troubling to have Lore’s treated so, evil though he was he was also almost as advanced and sentient as Data.
Though if they bring Data back does that cheapen the ending of PIC s1 which was a high point, even if the Data Picard says goodbye to wasn't the real Data (who was vaporised in a Thalaron explosion) but a backup of sorts?
The cast seem happy, even Gates who’ll freely admit the films short-changed her.
And Terry Matalas has been reassuring people that Worf looks, sounds - and smells! - like Worf…
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: And Terry Matalas has been reassuring people that Worf looks, sounds - and smells! - like Worf…
No touch of lilac? Not my Worf! Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I assumed that the Brent Spiner sound bite was Alton Soong returning from season 1.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:I believe the showrunners have gone on record that they would not mess with Worf's look if/when he showed up.
Well, they sort of already messed with Martok so I'm still anxious.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:I assumed that the Brent Spiner sound bite was Alton Soong returning from season 1.
Same. There's no way Brent can play Data again ... without a lot of CGI help.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Nearly three days now and still no thread about the latest episode. Which could say something about how underwhelming people are increasingly finding this season, or maybe just because it’s Krenny who creates them, hope he’s OK.
And I’ve been thinking about these new developments. First off, let’s make no bones about it - this show is rotten. It is catastrophically bad. Nothing has really improved since the last season. OK it was nice in the premiere getting lots of new ship names and registries and classes, but it was ultimately meaningless - the very epitome of sound and fury signifying nothing. Did it suck us all in a bit? I’d say so. But we won’t be fooled again. And yet, Terry Matalas on Twitter promised “More Federation starships!”
It seems to have always been the plan to film s2 and s3 back to back. So the apparent decision to turn s3 into ST:TNG 2.0 can’t be a spur of the moment rearguard decision. And given it was always intended to have a limited run, and it’s called Picard, I suppose Pill, Briones, Hurd, Cabrera, Evagoria and Ryan can hardly object if they suddenly find themselves sidelined as it becomes These Are STILL The Voyages.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Nearly three days now and still no thread about the latest episode. Which could say something about how underwhelming people are increasingly finding this season, or maybe just because it’s Krenny who creates them, hope he’s OK.
I'm fine. Busy, but fine. And ya'll can start a thread for a new episode without me, y'know. Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I know, but it’s your thing.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:“There are some people from ‘Star Trek’ who come back in this season who aren’t the ‘Next Gen’ [primary] cast. I mean there’s one character who is in ‘Next Gen’ who I was like… I really want THIS character to come back. And when they did [agree to return], that was weirdly more thrilling than everything else in totality.”
So who could it be? How many truly memorable (and “more thrilling”) guest actors were there who’d have to be of sufficient stature or in demand to make it touch and go they’d say yes?
Obvious ones (not a comprehensive list)
Kurn - Tony Todd (obviously subsequent DS9 complications here) Ro - Michelle Forbes Robin Lefler - Ashley Judd
I’m sure there are others. I guess I’m trying to differentiate between these ones whose participation wouldn’t be a given, and people who’d say yes in a heartbeat whether because they’re ardent ambassadors for the show (Denise Crosby for example) or because they’re just working (or not) actors who’d be pleased to get a paying gig (OK, now I was going to suggest Shannon Fill as Sito Jaxa, but in fact she’s not an actor anymore but a social worker, which I guess is another category of person who’d have to “agree to return” - to actual acting) like… Elizabeth Dennehy as Shelby.
Though the involvement of Lefler or Shelby or Selar (which category would Suzie Plakson fall into?) would probably be done in a way that would negate any possibility that New Frontiers could be canon. Or would it? Peter David is I think well-regarded by Trek luminaries so they might avoid doing so.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Still thinking about it. I suppose O’Brien wouldn’t be impossible…
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, except from the interview:
quote:We don’t get to Miles O’Brien. I’d love to get to Miles O’Brien! There are people though — I could say one name to you right now that comes back, and [you’d be] like, ‘Oh my god, I want to know what happens!’
Vash?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I'm sure it'll be just as much an anti-climactic disappointment as everything else.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Lower Decks already „killed“ New Frontier.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Speaking of - do we have a start date for Lower Decks S3? I'm hoping it picks up right when SNW wraps S1!
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
As much as I'd love Lower Decks Season 3 to be right around the corner, I think the second half of Prodigy Season 1 is probably next.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
- Prodigy returned on Jan. 6, ending on Feb. 3 - Discovery’s 4th season returned on Feb. 10 and ended March 17. - Picard’s 2nd season started on March 3 and ended May 5 - Strange New Worlds debuted on May 5, ends July 7. - Lower Decks 3rd season debuts later in the year, after Strange New Worlds (no date, possibly “in Summer”) - Prodigy’s second-half of season one will be on “later” in 2022. - Prodigy’s second season may still air at the end of 2022.
Some have suggested PIC s3 might be later this year as it’s already been filmed, as a surprise. Can’t see it happening. But after how much has been crammed into the first two-thirds of the year, it seems odd they’re content to just see out the rest of the year with Prodigy in dribs and drabs.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
According to PlaymatesStarTrekToys.com, Prodigy returns in 17 days.
Considering how much fanfare they made about Prodigy, they’re treating it really weirdly. From the start intended to be on Nickelodeon, they change their minds at the last minute and put it on P+ instead. Did it even air on Nick at all, eventually? And then release a few, then stop a while, then a few more, then stop for ages… If they want it to be a hit kids’ show, this is not the way to retain the little bastards’ attention!
Maybe Nickelodeon took one look and said, the fuck is this? The kids don’t know or care who Janeway or Chakotay are!
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Prodigy is definitely too cerebral for kids. The whole idea of the time travel aspect is hard enough for adults to follow, much less kids.
With that said, Prodigy is probably the best new Trek show of the lot. It's certainly the most original.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Prodigy is definitely too cerebral for kids. The whole idea of the time travel aspect is hard enough for adults to follow, much less kids.
I'd disagree that the time travel aspect is a problem for kids, as they cope perfectly fine with Doctor Who...where time travel is the entire premise, and (especially during the Moffat era) can be convoluted at times. Prodigy, though, is not what you'd expect from a kids show. I'm only five episodes in as I waited until Paramount+ launched here in the UK to watch it, but my personal feeling is that it's too much for kids but at the same time some of the characters are too grating for adults (Dal could do with a good smack, and I'm seriously concerned about Jankom Pog's mental health given he's always referring to himself in the third person). If they toned down the more annoying charcaters, though, it has the potential to be the best of the new Trek shows.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
You’re in the U.K., Z? Don’t think I ever knew that. Or more likely did but forgot. #SeniorMoment
I just found Prodigy very hard to get through. Dal especially grated. His arrogance and unwillingness to do anything sensible - like head for the Federation - really got on my nerves. Maybe because I know he’s wrong, but of course the character - and presumably the intended audience, though as discussed above nobody is really sure who that is anymore - don’t know that. Maybe that’s exactly what kids want in a anti-establishment (i.e. grown ups, like me) type of character.
So, after the first few I stopped watching. And just read synopses after each one “dropped” (as ver kids say). And God only knows what kids make of all this. Janeway’s a hologram… but she’s also a real person (who’s like, totally old), who’s on a ship (that got mom and dad real excited when they saw it), and she’s looking for the gang’s ship - that’s only been missing for a few months even though it had been there for years when they found it - because she knows the Captain of the ship even though he’s obviously not on board…
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Janeway’s a hologram… but she’s also a real person (who’s like, totally old), who’s on a ship (that got mom and dad real excited when they saw it), and she’s looking for the gang’s ship - that’s only been missing for a few months even though it had been there for years when they found it - because she knows the Captain of the ship even though he’s obviously not on board…
That's kinda what I meant about the time travel aspect. When the show first started, I assumed that it took place in the far, far future in the DQ, and that the ship had been buried for centuries. Then all of a sudden it turns out that the ship was only missing for a few months relative-time, but a few years Protostar-time. It's a bit confusing. It's almost like someone decided to change the premise of the show halfway through.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Exactly. I’m all for wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff but question its efficacy in a kids’ show.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
OK, so Star Trek Day news…
- Bev is on a ship that is boarded by wrong’uns. The ship… it’s like a sort-of Nova saucer, but with two catamaran booms. The nacelles are outboard of these booms (rather than being integral like on the Steamrunner). A straight horizontal boom connects the two catamaran booms at midpoint, with a very smallish “pod” in the middle. It’s on this pod that the baddies’ ship docks. The ships name appears to be USS L… something, maybe seven or eight letters. - There is a new USS Titan. It’s a classic-configuration ship designed by Bill Krause who designed the TOS Stargazer. Terry Matalas calls it the Titan-A - God, I hope fucking not. He also refers to it as a “neo-Constitution” (neocon?!). - And it appears to be under the command of one Commander… Hansen? O’Nine? Yes, her. - Also seen: a two-nacelle version of some STO ship - the Sagan-class? - called the Echelon-class. From Dave Blass, there are two of these in the show:
USS Cole NCC-97938 USS Sternbach NCC-97651
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
* or whichever it was.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
No.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
The first shot of the Catamaran ship, from the rear, I thought it was an NX-Class.
I ... loathe both the design of the Titan, and also that it's an -A. I mind the addition of letters to registry in Discovery much less because we've gone well forward in time, but I really just don't care for the use in TNG/DS9/VOY-era Trek.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
No ship but Enterprise should have a suffix.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Hard agree. Maybe we’ll get lucky, maybe calling it the Titan-A is just shorthand that’s become common among the production staff. Giving the Discovery a suffix was weird (and massively complicates fitting “Calypso” into the canon, if that’s even something they’re pretending to intend to do at some point) but relatively minor by Disco-howler standards.
And it’s not even correct, really. There was another Titan before the Luna-class one. But it’s hard to care, it’s PIC after all and the omens aren’t good for s3 being any better than the other two…
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Per Krause on Twitter, Matalas basically asked him at one point what the Shangri-La would look like with STP nacelles, and that basically became the ship.
All those years of careful maintenance of the future period-piece, and it just takes one guy to be like "hey, that tall-sailed wooden ship would look sweet with F-35s taking off from it."
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
In my opinion Matalas should've stayed away from the treknological parts of PIC.
I had my first doubts about him when he claimed that the new Stargazer was a refit of the old Stargazer. And now he seems to be the main force behind the anachronistic Titan-A.
Slapping PIC nacelles on a TMP design, naming it Constitution III class because you're a fan of the Constition class and adding an A suffix for good measure is just an asinine way to design a (hero) starship.
He also claims that Beverly's ship is an old TNG vessel even though it looks very much 25th century-ish.
He also gives a rather petulant impression on Twitter and Facebook and doesn't take well to criticism, even constructive one. So I must wonder if Bass, Drexler, and Krause are really totally on board with his vision or were simply overruled and now have to put a good face on the matter.
quote:Maybe we’ll get lucky, maybe calling it the Titan-A is just shorthand that’s become common among the production staff.
Bill Krause has already confirmed NCC-80102-A on Facebook.
quote:No ship but Enterprise should have a suffix.
I'm not totally against suffixes for other ships, but they should be earned. And I didn't get the impression that Riker and his Titan earned this privilege.
quote:Also seen: a two-nacelle version of some STO ship - the Sagan-class? - called the Echelon-class
Pretty lame.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh yeah - it starts February 16 in the US, or 17 February for the rest of us, presumably still on Prime unless they pull it two days before - of course, they’d never do THAT!
I guess worst case scenario, we get a “proper TNG send-off” that leaves us wishing they’d just left it as it was, with Nemesis their swan-song. A bit like how the whole SW sequel trilogy really needn’t have happened at all…
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Now Matalas is saying it’s a refit Constitution Refit. A Constitution Refit Refit!
I feel like that battle droid in Episode 1, saying “Coruscant? That doesn’t compute…”
[EDIT]
Oh God. It’s just occurred to me. They said we’d see AN Enterprise. Suppose… you don’t think they… we don’t KNOW what happened to the 1701-A… surely not?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Given their hard-on for using those hopelessly ugly STO designs, I'm 1000% certain it's gonna be their hideous af Enterprise-F concept.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Now Matalas is saying it’s a refit Constitution Refit. A Constitution Refit Refit!
Bonkers.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Meanwhile, that fourth Kelvinverse film the cast didn’t know they were making… isn’t being made anymore. Looks like, as with SW, the future of Trek is solely televisual for the time being.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
BillyPorter–Good.jpg
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: Given their hard-on for using those hopelessly ugly STO designs, I'm 1000% certain it's gonna be their hideous af Enterprise-F concept.
sigh
Lore! Moriarty! Someone else who wants to kill Picard and destroy the Earth and doesn’t care in which order! Played by Amanda Plummer who in old age - or just makeup - looks like Fred Ward now! Wants revenge against Picard. So what do we reckon? Some resuscitated/rejigged plotline from TNG, or yet another bit of excessive back history creation a la PIC s2?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Beverly kidnapped by Horny Space Ghost mk II. Picard must show her the healing power of organo-robodick.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Okay, uh, I didn't realized when I posted that there was a new trailer out & now I feel stupid, but also angry af about being predictively correct about Enterprise-F.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
So the promised Khan-level villain looks like trailer park white trash.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I absolutely fucking hate that they used the STO Odyssey class for the F, although it doesn't surprise me one bit after season 2.
We've known about this design for 11 damn years, ever since that completely FUBARed 'Design the Enterprise-F' contest. And instead of coming up with a brand-new design (which they could then market the hell out of), they just use this ship (and not even the marginally better Yorktown class upgrade), spoil the design right away in a trailer instead of in the show proper, and make it look even more video-gamey than Eaglemoss's version. I also got the impression from that trailer that the F isn't really going to be special; it's just another ship in whatever fleet they have going there at that station.
I dunno, maybe Sir Patrick didn't want the new Enterprise to outshine him or his three-year vanity project.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
They didn't even need an F. E would only be like 30 years old at the time; they should've kept it.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Holy shit. I hadn't seen the trailer, so when you said "Lore! Moriarty!", I thought you were jokingly giving an exaggerated prediction of how stupid they could possibly go. But, uh... nope.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
It’s like the writers and producers overdosed on ‘memberberries.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It might be even worse. Cryptic mentions of “passing the torch” could indicate that there’s going to be a bit of backdoor-piloting going on. The obvious focus of that would be a new Enterprise-based show. So… a new post-VOY show (finally!), set on that Ent-F (ugh)… with Seven and Raffi as part of it maybe? There has to be a reason they’ve kept them around while ditching Rios, Elnor, um… Kim Pine and, er, android girl, Christ I’ve forgotten their names already - Agnes and Soji? … in varying degrees of plot organics. I guess what I’m asking is, do we want a post-VOY (I guess post-PIC, now) show that contains elements of what went before, or a true step into the unknown like TNG was?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Did we actually hear that called the Enterprise? Or are we just seeing the design, and assuming it has to be the Enterprise because of the Design-the-Enterprise project?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
It was labeled NCC-1701-F.
And if it’s a back door pilot, it will most likely be Star Trek: Titan, not Star Trek: Enterprise, considering the hard-on Matalas has for that ship.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
The Titan-A, and the Enterprise-F, are so ugly.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: The Titan-A, and the Enterprise-F, are so ugly.
Those nacelles don't belong on Titan. The original Shangri-La model is gorgeous tho.
There has not been good starship design in coming on 20 years. These idiots do what they do because they think it looks cool & rad & sleek & futuristic, but instead it looks ugly & shitty & aggressive & poorly scaled. I will say that the 32nd-century Constitution design speaks to me, however.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
The trailer could've been for Nemesis: A new over-the-top foe of dark darkness we've never heard of has a monster ship and a personal score to settle with Picard while also having a strong desire to destroy a political alliance of 150 member worlds via some weapon. Oh, and another Soong android shows up.
Maybe pacifist Worf finally gets to ram something?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
So I guess the mystery aliens who created the S2 transwarp conduit have been completely swept under the carpet?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"A new over-the-top foe of dark darkness we've never heard of..."
Oh, somehow it will turn out to be someone we've heard of before. It's a pathological obsession with these writers that everything has to be something we already know.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
"Over the top" is right.
Amanda Plummer looks like Mark Hamill after the crash.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: So I guess the mystery aliens who created the S2 transwarp conduit have been completely swept under the carpet?
It’s getting quite crowded under there what with the tentacular space replicants. And the fanatical Romulans who’re presumably not going to just renounce their religion just because a tubby retired Starfleet officer showed up with an outnumbering amount of cut’n’paste ships. And the suddenly cute’n’cuddly Borg. And the Wesley Travellers Club (now accepting clones, or androids, whatever the heck she was that the 21st Century Soong actually made)…
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
Maybe pacifist Worf finally gets to ram something?
I’m SURE he’s done this. I mean he WAS married to Jadzia Dax. Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
Maybe pacifist Worf finally gets to ram something?
I’m SURE he’s done this. I mean he WAS married to Jadzia Dax.
I see what you did there.
Getting back all the TNG crew, I feel like... well not sure how to say. Fan service, duh. But also a final farewell to the crew we grew up with.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
As we approach Season 3, I've been hearing a LOT of good things. But after Seasons 1 & 2, the most I'm allowing myself is hoping this is a better sendoff than Nemesis... and for me that's a pretty low bar.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It sometimes seems like I'm the only one on Twitter who HASN'T seen the first six episodes and then posted an eerily similar rave about how this is the send-off the TNG crew deserve. OK, me, Bernd and G2K anyway. And given what a superfan Jorg is and what good rapport he has with many of the cast & creatives, you'd think he'd have been a shoo-in for a sneak preview.
A LOT of people are going to have serious egg on their faces if this rather manufactured-sounding word of mouth... turns out to be all mouth and no trousers.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
All I know is I saw Worf with four pips.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, that’s confirmed. They seem to be cagey as to whether he was captain of the Ent-E - it’s at least implied; maybe even of the Ent-F, which is “now” fifteen years old and has had “several captains” but is being retired already for unclear reasons - and also what exactly happened to the Ent-E itself.
Also notable that the “Captain’s jacket” is going to be not just making an appearance but also doing a LOT of heavy lifting when it comes to the cast’s middle-age spread!
One non-spoiler review of the first six eps says one TNGer isn’t given much to do. Based on promotional material, I’m guessing it’s Troi - which would be a shame, if they did as they claim set out to redress how poorly Crusher was served by the TNG movies, and end up neglecting the OTHER female cast member…
(Marina deliberately left Twitter when Musk bought it, so there’s no way to judge from her Tweets anymore)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, and here’s THAT excoriating review. Which many are questioning - its honesty, the reviewer’s personal motives, etc. It’s quite incoherent in parts, verges on hysterical, but the failings it alleges PIC s3 suffers from sound VERY familiar to those of us who’ve found it hard to overlook the same failings in s1 & s2. But then… it also feels like it’s telling naysayers what they WANT to hear…
There's another negative one by a Disco fan, but I've dealt with him on Twitter before and I half suspect he's being contrarian for its own sake. Either way, I haven't seen anyone I actually trust giving glowing reviews, and I don't trust this guy's opinion either.
One of these two did make the point that if you're doing fanservice and only doing it half-right, you're doing it all wrong, which I appreciated.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I am so unexcited for this show that if it weren't for all the hype (which is telling in itself) I probably would've forgotten about it.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I really want to like it but Matalas, besides being a huge jerk, sometimes seems to have no clue what he's doing:
quote:NCC-1777-Shangri La Class. Launched in 2290 under the Command of Captain Saavik.
Enough with these super-fast promotions.
quote: Because of Captains Saavik and Riker, the Titan’s legacy was continued with a brand new starship, one that would retain its registry, but now with the “A” designation, an honor only given to a select few starships.
NCC-80102-A. Constitution III Class, referred to in Starfleet slang as Neo-Constitution Class. This new Titan is primarily an exploratory vessel, honoring the retro design of the Constitution Class II. Launched in 2402 under the command of Captain Liam Shaw. Work began on a refit using the original Titan space frame, however, with the development of cutting-edge technology, the Titan’s design changed mid-construction and a new ship took form. As per tradition, Starfleet engineers affectionately designated it as a refit, having kept much of the original Titan’s internal components.
The Constitution III was designed to cater to a close support envelope at sub-light speeds, namely in and around densely populated solar systems, as witnessed by is overpowered impulse engines. To date, the new Titan has the largest sub-light power-to-geometry ratio in the fleet.
WTF? This is absolute nonsense.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Unless any of that BS is mentioned in the show, I'm not taking it at face value.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Work began on a refit using the original Titan space frame, however, with the development of cutting-edge technology, the Titan’s design changed mid-construction and a new ship took form. As per tradition, Starfleet engineers affectionately designated it as a refit, having kept much of the original Titan’s internal components.
What the absolutely incontrovertible mother-loving fuck?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
That… is just utterly nonsensical. They decided to… remove from mothballs, I presume… “refit” a ship that - going by the registry, NCC-1777 (and don’t get me started on that, or that it was apparently the flagship of its day…), must have been built, well, not that long after 2245. So let’s say, an at-least 150 year old spaceframe. So, never mind the presumed century and a half of technological advancements in starship design that’s happened in the meantime. And then pretty-much replace it all anyway. And then give it a new class name despite it having nothing to do with the OG Constitution-class or the refit variant of same. And then keep its original name but give it the registry of another Titan.
And yet… all that sounds completely par for the course where this shower are concerned. And, not gonna lie, it makes the actual criticisms in the two reviews above ring even truer than they did before!
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: That… is just utterly nonsensical. They decided to… remove from mothballs, I presume… “refit” a ship that - going by the registry, NCC-1777 (and don’t get me started on that, or that it was apparently the flagship of its day…), must have been built, well, not that long after 2245. So let’s say, an at-least 150 year old spaceframe. So, never mind the presumed century and a half of technological advancements in starship design that’s happened in the meantime. And then pretty-much replace it all anyway. And then give it a new class name despite it having nothing to do with the OG Constitution-class or the refit variant of same. And then keep its original name but give it the registry of another Titan.
And yet… all that sounds completely par for the course where this shower are concerned. And, not gonna lie, it makes the actual criticisms in the two reviews above ring even truer than they did before!
They weren’t talking about the NCC-1777 Titan. They were talking about Riker’s NCC-80102 Titan.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Which only slightly is less rubbish.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
And makes even less sense.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, at least you can look at the Shangri-La Titan and say, yes, I can see how that could be turned into the NeoCon Titan, even though it’s fucking moronic. To say that the Luna Titan could be turned into the NeoCon Titan is… words fail me… imbecilically fucktarded.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: That… is just utterly nonsensical. They decided to… remove from mothballs, I presume… “refit” a ship that - going by the registry, NCC-1777 (and don’t get me started on that, or that it was apparently the flagship of its day…), must have been built, well, not that long after 2245. So let’s say, an at-least 150 year old spaceframe. So, never mind the presumed century and a half of technological advancements in starship design that’s happened in the meantime. And then pretty-much replace it all anyway. And then give it a new class name despite it having nothing to do with the OG Constitution-class or the refit variant of same. And then keep its original name but give it the registry of another Titan.
And yet… all that sounds completely par for the course where this shower are concerned. And, not gonna lie, it makes the actual criticisms in the two reviews above ring even truer than they did before!
The idea of a refit of an ancient ship becoming another ship has precedent in Star Trek: Discovery. That was done for convoluted reasons, but -- as we've seen before in Trek productions -- the specific reasons for a prior thing can get lost when one wants to repeat the thing.
In effect, then, this is a backport-retcon normalizing (and undercutting) the Discovery event.
Also, not only is the refit of the Constartoonish Class Titan renamed and renumbered, but it is also almost twice the size, meaning they had to build all-new parts that slavishly reproduced the appearance of the ship they were turning into a bigger ship, because reasons.
That's per Bernd tweeting with the designer and production designer here:
This is also something with precedent in the newer material, since the Enterprise of the pre-TOS Discovery era is 50% larger than the classic Constitution and the TMP movie refit, despite ostensibly being the same ship.
So as you can see, this is all perfectly normal and plausible. Clearly you just don't like it due to starbase spacedoorkeeping and anti-android bigotry.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote: And I liked the ownership of a former Riker command.
So Riker was in command of Titan-A as well?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Jesus, someone hoof this guy in the crotch. It's bad fanfic gone amok.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
First he made out the Stargazer to be a refit, now the Titan. It’s fucking bizarre frankly. I mean, I realise there are multiple examples of “refits” that stretch credibility - OK, well, at least three anyway: the Constitution obviously, but there are differences between both the D’s (the saucer rim) & E’s (the shifting of the nacelle pylons) various models that could only be explained away as refits, but make no sense in themselves.
The Stargazer could be ignored as him just talking out his arse. I suspect we’ll have to do the same with the Titan… oh no. Suppose he has it said out loud in dialogue? Christ.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: The refit refers to the Luna class
Oy. Besides the fact that's not specified except by the designer, it makes no sense, besides. That'd be like refitting a Constitution into an Intrepid, or vice versa.
I'm sure you could come up with some contrived explanation but I'm past caring.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Meanwhile, I’m in Iceland and it remains to be seen whether Prime will let me watch it tomorrow.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Just raise the Jolly Roger.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Turns out I can! 8am - same time zone as the UK, ping there it was. Of course I didn’t bring my iPad so I’ll have to watch it on my phone…
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: v The Stargazer could be ignored as him just talking out his arse. I suspect we’ll have to do the same with the Titan… oh no. Suppose he has it said out loud in dialogue? Christ.
Well, they fucking did it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
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