How about it folks? Just think, a welcome cop-out for why we'll be seeing a Starfleet before the UFP, a high tech prototype Enterprise we've never heard of, with a registry that belongs to another ship, a Zephram Cochrane who doesn't disappear when he's supposed to, a first contact with the Klingons that doesn't lead to immeadiate hostility, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
You know what's really sad? What's really sad is that there are ways to explain shit. It doesn't have to be a total loss. But we've got assholes in high executive positions who don't care, who are too busy to think of stuff like that. Thank God there are guys like Okuda, who end up making a career out of covering their asses.
***Monkeys of Mim***
[Title edited to include spoiler warning]
[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Aethelwer ]
Dont watch the show.
It will save you the trouble of having to pick out minor incidents and analyze them untill they fit into some conspiracy that Rick Berman and the folks over at paramount are trying to pull over on the Star Trek Community in order to ruin Star Trek and in the process put themselves out of a job.
I know I'm being an asshole , but really , stop forcasting doom untill you've seen the show.
STOP YOUR BEEPING WHINING. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT WATCH IT. END OF STORY.
I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SURPRISES, NOW I KNOW COCHRANE IS IN IT.
NO, REALLY....
If you don't like the way it sounds, you don't have to watch it. Quit complaining about a show you havent seen. I am so sick of the complaints left and right. You people all remind me of the Comic Book Guy from the simpsons, complaining about every last detail. Sure, you choose your own involvement in trek, but there is a time where you have to realize it is just a TV show. And don't you DARE give me bull**** for saying that, because it is true. It is an entertainment franchise made to make money. Thats all. Its not a religion, its an idea that many people agree with, and I happen to be one of them, but its still there for money, that is all.
If you absoluely hate it, don't watch it, instead watch TNG reruns or something. So the sane portion of Trek fans can relax and watch this new show while you stay in the dark. Become more and more obsessed with an entertainment franchise? go watch WWF. Thank you.
[edited to PG-13]
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: Wes1701E ]
You really love your conspiracy theories, don't you? I've addressed the fallacy of your arguments in another thread; I'm not going to repeat it here. But the advice being offered is fine: if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. Offer criticism all you want, but do so only if you can back outrageous claims with factual evidence instead this whole "Berman wants to eat Trek babies" stuff. You might also want to read the information at TrekToday and TrekWeb and what have you before presenting the information in your argument. In particular, check the Zephram Cochrane item.Dr Oblivious: Forecasting doom. That's the phrase I've been trying to think of all night!
Wes1701E: I know you're upset, and cursing is natural, but you really need to tone that down. I know, the complaints are beginning to bug me too, but it's hard to argue effectively when you're trying to remember how to spell something Cartman said on South Park. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
I was just thinking about how they might get away with all the really fucked up mistakes we're going to be seeing. Since we're going to have a villain from the future, why not say that he's changed history and all of this is in an alternate timeline!!!
I'll grant the possibility that everything from the pilot on may be an alternate timeline... but so far, I see no need for it.
quote:
How about it folks? Just think, a welcome cop-out for why we'll be seeing a Starfleet before the UFP
Please direct me to the episode or film which stated that Starfleet didn't exist before the Federation? Oh yeah, there isn't one.
quote:
a high tech prototype Enterprise we've never heard of
I can't argue with the fact that we've never heard of this Enterprise, though I can argue that it doesn't matter. Take a random sampling of a few hundred hours of you life. In that random group of days, how many times has the name of any specific sea-going ship from the 1700s come up? Why should it surprise anyone that in the few hundred hours of Star Trek we've seen, this ship hasn't? It's the equivalent of centuries-old history by the time of "modern" Trek.
quote:
with a registry that belongs to another ship
When was this established? I clearly remember a illusory U.S.S. Dauntless with the registry NX-01-A... But I can't recall anyone ever mentioning a starship with a registry of NX-01 sans A. I guess that's because it never happened. There is therefore no conflict with a ship snatching up said registry.*
quote:
a Zephram Cochrane who doesn't disappear when he's supposed to
The episode apparently features a decades-old recording of Cochrane, allowing him to disappear right on time.
quote:
a first contact with the Klingons that doesn't lead to immeadiate hostility
Strange, I thought that the only canon reference to first contact with the Klingons (in "First Contact" (TNG)) called the incident "disasterous," making no mention of hostilities, immediate or otherwise. And the only mentions of hostility with the Klingons (in "Day of the Dove" (TOS) and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country) pointed to a date around 2220... which makes immediate hostilities in 2151 highly unlikely. And what a coincidence: there is no indication of such hostitlies in "Broken Bow." It actually conforms to canon better than Okuda's conjectural date of 2218!
quote:
Thank God there are guys like Okuda, who end up making a career out of covering their asses.
And, in the proccess, make their own mistakes that need to be covered.
-=Ryan McReynolds=-
*If you want to get technical, it's entirely possible that the reformulated Federation Starfleet abandoned the Earth Starfleet registry scheme and started over with an NX-01 named Dauntless.
quote:
If you want to get technical, it's entirely possible that the reformulated Federation Starfleet abandoned the Earth Starfleet registry scheme and started over with an NX-01 named Dauntless.
Well I would hope they would have. To be honest I'd be pissed if they didn't.
Wes: This forum is for people to express their opinions. I wouldn’t come here if there weren't a load of dissenting opinions on the many different facets of Trek. How long would these forums last if we all agreed with each other? While I can definitely see why you would be angry at the lack of a spoiler warning on this thread, I have to say:
THEY HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT TO WHINE ALL THEY WANT!
What's your criteria for a good post? Perhaps you should post of list of Wes acceptable topics. I suppose that you have never complained about anything the entire time you have posted at this forum. Or is it OK for people to complain as long as you agree with them.
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: Obi Juan ]
Well, if you don't want to get spoiled, don't come here then, you whiny petulant little brat.
Payback's a motherfucker, ain't it? That has just so made my day. 8)
To Add to Ryan's Post
quote:
a high tech prototype Enterprise we've never heard of
Who's to say this Enterprise wasent over shadowed by the adventures of the other Enterprises?
quote:
I'm just saying. I'm sick of people acting like they MUST watch the show. You all have better to do with your time then complain about a show that hasnt aired yet.
Amen Wes , the producers of Star Trek for the 4 Decades have provided the fans with a whole world they can escape in , for free! (With the Exception of the movies) And Now those same producers are trying to extend that world to others , but the spoiled people would rather use any inconsistancy , no matter how small to totally blast a show they have no idea could be the reincarnation of Good Trek.
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Obvious ]
"And who has nearly a year less experince in this fourm as I do."
Erm... Is it possible to have been around a year longer than Lee? Hasn't he been around since, oh, approximately the very beginning?
"If you dont like me expressing my opinions, then you leave."
Wow. That has to be the single most hypocritical statement I have ever seen in my entire life...
"you whiny petulant little brat? what are you from the 40's?"
Yeah, Lee, don't you know you can't use words w/ more than two syllables if you want him to understand you?
"I'm just saying. I'm sick of people acting like they MUST watch the show. You all have better to do with your time then complain about a show that hasnt aired yet."
So, what you're saying is that you don't have anything better to do w/ your time than to complain about people who complain about a show that hasn't aired yet?
Just drop it.
Monkeys Of Mim: I still dont see all these horrible errors you people are reefering to , every so called flaw that people have "uncovered" or other wise fabricated has been been answered and accounted for.
I think that everyone just wants this show to fail for some reason , they want to make mountains out of mole hills and cry over spilled milk , this show is not your normal trek its not ment to be trek , trek is dead , face it its run its course , they cant keep pandering to the same hardcore fan base , its not profitable , thats what everything is now , sad but true , it comes down to how marketable something is , they have to reinvent Trek or it will be gone , for good.
I totally agree with Ryan , Okuda and the others make mistakes of their own , i mean look at the Ds9 tech Manual and the Encyclopedia and all that jazz.
If you want to blame something for the downfall of Star Trek Blame Voyager , we've already seen that abomination , they took a GREAT premise and basiclly ignored it and went about theyre way of going in circles storywise and totally putting off viewers.
But in my opinion Voyager cant be pinned with all the blame , some of it goes to just our society moving on. Star Trek is popular because it allows people to escape theyre lives for any hour a week and go in space.
But Why escape into fantasy , when you can escape into the lives of Rudy on Survivor , or Pedro on the Real World or why even escape into TV! When your job is actually noting to escape from , or when you have the money to jet off to anywhere you want to go .
My point is , Why Escape into something fake , when you can escape into something you can live!
Now I'm not saying that its the case for everyone , but just look at the times
TOS came to light when the Nation was tearing itself apart , when we were in a struggle with a country half a world away , when there was violance in the streets and Americas sons were being sent away to fight a war with no clear objective and more then likley not coming back standing. That along side the space race , helped people drift into a world of make believe where an Alien with pointy ears and a young Captain from Iwoa helped show humanity for what it really was.
I guess thats just a really long and drawn out way of saying , The world has Changed , and whether you change with it to is up to you , but its obvious , Trek has decided its time to modernize.
quote:
Erm... Is it possible to have been around a year longer than Lee? Hasn't he been around since, oh, approximately the very beginning?
Sorry I don't know him. I was assuming the 'date registered' was the date he joined.
quote:
Wow. That has to be the single most hypocritical statement I have ever seen in my entire life...
Yes. I realize that. And after reading over what I had said, I guess I was upset about being spoiled then some people were quite unsypathetic. Oh well.
quote:
Yeah, Lee, don't you know you can't use words w/ more than two syllables if you want him to understand you?
Thats just downright insulting. I guess I deserved it. I meant the word petulant, its just the type of word you find on SATs and no where else. I dunno. It sounded old.
quote:
So, what you're saying is that you don't have anything better to do w/ your time than to complain about people who complain about a show that hasn't aired yet?
You're absolutely right. But I have been attacked many times for my optimism about the new series. I havent tried to attack anyone personally. I'll try to be a bit nicer if you try. eh? 
)
To be fair Wes, that's exactly what you did when you spoiled something for Lee. How do you expect him to act?
Anyway, let's hug, and allow everyone to get back to their "Enterprise might be good", and "Braga and berman suck Satan's cock" camps.
But I won't.
re "high-tech Enterprise?" Who is to say that NX-01 is a "higher" tech level than 1701?
1) The external design? The external shape? Means nothing - both twin hull vessels (1701) and catamaran hull vessels (NX-01) could co-exist.
2) The level of external detail? NX-01 definitely looks earlier to me.
3) The internal sets? Remember what J Dax said in Tribbles and Tribulations (sic) ? about how much she loved that centuries design? Who is to say that, as the level of AI improved, the designs weren't intentionally simplified?
But I am keeping it in mind atleast , I havent seen the show so I cant render a positive "It Will Suck Ass" verdict or a correct "THIS SHOW ROCKS I NEVER EXPECTED THIS" verdict. Most likley the reality will be the show will be something in the middle of "It Sucks" and "Wow"
But its all wait and see man.
Dont Count Your Chickens before theyre hatched
and all that Jazz...